Ramblings, under the Northern Lights

[Phaeton]

I go by Phaeton since the citizen band craze of the 70's. Now I'm dated.

I'm autistic, idiot savant to us old folks, and enjoy lighting. The disjointed rambling that follows covers 12 years of growing. OCD is also a problem with me and THC helps, lots. The key is only 1 person smoking my grows. I could use 50 watt tungsten long-life's and grow enough for just myself, so quite often I used lighting almost guaranteed not to grow plants, just to see.

All below is 400 watt discharge.

HPS got thrown out of the budroom 6 years ago. I did not like the fan leaves turning yellow when I thought they should be green. Standard industrial multi-vapor HID's worked fine. T12's and T8's suck at budding, but smokable buds did get harvested.

CMH came along, doing it all, I could even clone with them.
So all the CMH ballasts ended up in a drawer, no fun.

CMH bulbs use M135 ballast, HPS bulbs use S51 ballast, old HID use M59 ballast.
M59 fixtures are no longer for sale in the USA. I dismantled the CMH fixtures and put HID ballasts in them.

PlusRite makes a 'red' HID with dominate wavelength 590 nm. That is yellow but I bought 3 just to see. Oh yes, very solid pink came out, the spectrum must go down through red from the yellow peak, uh huh, yup. I bought 2 more, refurbished more fixtures and put them in the budroom with my 450 nm blue HID's. 3 weeks went by, Before this I pruned fan leaves every day, but not a leaf in 4 days. Time for a prism.
I won't use caps but those 'red' lights were not red. None. I took red stuff in the budroom and it looked black. No red whatsoever. A very sharp peak at the advertised 590 nm, skinny and yellow. The other spectral peak centered at 395 nm, violet and a shade less skinny. That is it, no other colors. Yellow and violet mixed look pink to me. Together with the manufacturer calling the light 'red' I saw red.
What that taught me: light without red will not grow a plant, I had other lights also to counteract all the 'red'. 2800 watts total, the plants did not die but neither did they grow. I had 590 nm, 450 nm, and 395 nm, all PAR light but the plants did not grow, no red.

I looked at all my fluorescents also, 4100K looked same as 6500K in the prism (coffee can painted white inside), but 5000K vegs clones better than either. Plants must see what I cannot, but even the 6500K fluorescents have a band of red coming out.

Reptile lights put out UVB. These tanning rays are supposed to shorten the time to ripen bud. I don't have a control done yet, but any results that are not big enough to find without detailed records are not big enough to make me care. Going to finish the test anyway, done right it may be big enough. Budding under violet cost me over 8 ounces, maybe ultra-violet will take it the other way. Good thing my sharing is 'try this' rather than my day job.

Halogen tungsten attracts me for its bright reds, but it always dry out the plant. 500 watts of glowing metal dries plants immediately out to 48". Not one to let small things get me I got a pair of 9" driving lights with 4200K special short life bulbs. 72" away on 2 sides with old HID's on top. The spot was 12" across at that distance so only 1 bud got the treatment. The major visible result was the silvering burned off the reflector. Driving lights need airflow. The buds did not noticably care.

Whoa, bedtime, gotta turn off the veg lights too. Why does everybody use 18/6 for veg? My plants go to bed with me and wake up with me, averages 15.5/8.5 and moves around a little if I watch a late movie or sleep in. Not seeming to be a problem. I veg in an open room, not needing dark dark, just gray dark.

Good night all :kitty:

 

[BadTicket]

Whoa, bedtime, gotta turn off the veg lights too. Why does everybody use 18/6 for veg? My plants go to bed with me and wake up with me, averages 15.5/8.5 and moves around a little if I watch a late movie or sleep in. Not seeming to be a problem. I veg in an open room, not needing dark dark, just gray dark.

Good night all :kitty:

Yea, i used to do that, but it's not good if you want to travel or go out on the town for the night and/or like to sleep late. Now i let a timer do the work, it's better even with the occasional power outs.

Anyways, welcome to the forums, dude.

 

[nattynattygurrl]

Glad you are here, Phaeton.
Warmest of welcomes to you!

I think you'll find that you fit right in around here;
...A lot of us have our little "quirks" and eccentricities.
That's what keeps things interesting.

But, we all have at least one thing in common...
Hope you enjoy your stay, Phaeton!

 

[Phaeton]

Been a couple weeks.
After three years growing sativa I was gifted a Northern Lights. From my ex's boyfriend as a "we're all in this together" present.

I'm autistic with OCD treatable with Luvox, but I don't like the side effects. Sativa works, indica does not. I know this because I get institutionalized if I don't take meds. Never been picked up while supplied with sativa. Switching to indica takes about three weeks to feel the change and six weeks to acting on the new pattern. That is the timeframe for being institutionalized. I digress, this indica is new to me.

And the stinkin' weed has different light needs. Very sensitive to sodium poison. 2:1 CMH/HPS works great on sativa. Two weeks (2) in the budroom between a couple of healthy green sativa's and the indica has fan leaves going yellow! WTF? I spent six months working out the budding lights for the sativa, and now it does not transfer to indica.
I have a closet full of wavelengths, 400 watts of 450 nm blue fifty/fifty with full spectrum went over the clone/veg tray. I had taken it out as indica is short enough already. Let's see just how green it will get.
The budding indica got a vertical T8 fixture (48") alongside with 5000K tubes. So did two sativa's across the room, just for control. The indica darkened up, took about six days. The sativa's are just growing away like always, hard to tell any difference, they always were green.

Figured out that 18/6 that I was curious about. I put the sativa and indica clones together in the same tray for rooting. Control again, if only one strain lived it would be their fault. If nobody lives it is my fault. Everybody lived, whoopie. But the indica tried to bud while taking root. Sativa did fine as always. Lights off at bedtime and on with morning coffee. About 14/10 or 13.5/10.5. Enough for sativa, never problem one. Indica needs way less dark for veg. Not too many sativa growers and most info is for indica, most info I take as general guidelines since most do not fit well. 18/6 was one of those that did not fit until I met Indica. Extra light is not hurting the sativa so now the veg room is on a timer also.

It is terrible to get old, I need more sleep than any other living thing in the house. :kitty:


'nuff ramblin' today, back later.

 

[paladin420]

Yes Sir them Northern lights want to bud. I'm at 45n. outdoors now they would be tryin startin to bud.

 

[nattynattygurrl]

Phaeton: "It is terrible to get old, I need more sleep than any other living thing in the house."

I can relate; my 'sleep requirements' rival only those of my eldest cat's.

Phaeton: "Control again, if only one strain lived it would be their fault. If nobody lives it is my fault. Everybody lived, whoopee."

Ahhh, you make me laugh, Phaeton. I am looking forward to reading more of your posts!

Please, try to take good care of yourself;
Happy medicating!

 

[guineapig]

Welcome to the forums!!!

kind regards from guineapig

 

[Phaeton]

Did I mention I'm autistic savant? trying to get a pattern on this lighting. My standard learning method is to keep getting information and when my brain has enough for a pattern it will tell me.
I read an awful lot of threads, post in a few and learn a lot. I fill in the rest with trial and error. I've been consistant in my dislike of sodium poison to produce larger buds at the expense of plant health. A common perception is yellow leaves are natural towards the end of the season. If this is true, IF that is true for cannabis (not all plants do this) then it may be the only natural happening going on with the plant. No storms, no dry spells, no foliage eaters, no rainy season, no depleted soils, no insects, no early or late frosts, no shade trees, why should the leaves turn yellow?
I started with a sodium, leaves yellowed in three weeks. Tried 50/50 sodium, leaves yellowed in three weeks. Tried CMH, leaves did not turn yellow. Tried 3/7 sodium, leaves yellowed in four weeks, progress being made. Two days ago they went 2/9 sodium, we shall see. I have clothespins with dates written on them clipped to the trays to keep track, this is the big budroom I am playing in now.

The small budroom had the original single sodium, needing more power and less yellowing I siamesed a pair of 23" white enamel lowbay fixtures into a single holding two CMH's 18" apart. This replaced the sodium (which went to the big room). The plant darkened back up in under ten days and continued green for six more weeks.
I got to thinking about yellow being natural and the three week delay from sodium to yellow leaves. The small budroom has three to four weeks left on the plants. I swapped out the twin CMH's and put the sodium back in, mature buds need way less light anyway. Sodium poison does put the plants into overdrive so I timed the final yellowing to match the max yield and hope for a last spurt of growth instead of the tapering off usually seen.

Blue/red ratio in veg. As soon as roots happened I put in a coral growth HID designed for saltwater aquariums. It does just what it is supposed to, I use it to reduce stretch in the sativa, works great.
That indica I mentioned was new to me? it is short anyway. I have a tray of indica just topping six inches now with 4-6 sts of branches (Sativa already in the budroom at 12"). But all the branches on each of the plants start in the first inch of the plant! And the leaves are not serrated, and most of them are singletons. Now that the sativa's are out I put a halogen in place of the HID. Hoping the branches separate out a little instead of all staying at the bottom and getting longer. Sometimes I cause myself more trouble. But knowing what doesn't work helps define the pattern also, all is good.

I have five cats, or rather our house does, I only claim two of them as my personal buddies. One of them (fuzzy) eats a low hanging leaf almost daily, the other cats get their greens outside. I mention as nattynattygurrl sports a similar affliction wit felines. :kitty:

 

[Phaeton]

Another two weeks already, time does fly.

I am getting there on this lighting stuff. Turns out the indica I'm working with responds well to the general information posted everywhere, totally unlike the sativa. Very few of the growing techniques work with indica and sativa both. My sativa veg lights almost killed my indica, and the high red ratio lights for indica make the sativa so spindly they cannot support bud.

With that in mind I am visiting the UV effect on sativa. I have already found sativa uses fully twice the blue as indica for similar growth and health. UV studies posted deal with indica exclusively as far as I can tell. And it doesn't do much of anything helpful with the indica's, maybe reduces bud time, maybe not, but the reports show it does not increase yield or THC.

Sativa evolved under more open skies, yes, blue and UV. Indica evolved more under overcast skies, no direct blue and UV anymore.
My test budroom is going full UV veg and then bud. Setting up the veg part now, 100 watts UVB, 100 watts blue heavy full spectrum, 100 watts 5000K, and 55 watts 2700K.
Two sativa's and an indica, the indica is just for control to compare with other indica UV grows. The wattages go up as the plants get larger, at two square feet this is 175 watts per square foot for veg, my main budroom is sitting at 114 watts per foot, the science section has a thread on Daily Light Integral explaining how these intensities were arrived at.

OK, now for why this is in introductions instead of grower's forum. Pretty much every time light is mentioned a flurry of posts start arriving explaining the UV content of HID's, fluorescents, halogens, and all sorts of nonsense. Some get very belligerent about it and clutter up the thread to the point it is no longer useful. I am tired of the crap, nobody reads the intro's so I get to keep a running account without being blindsided by jerks too lazy to do research before posting their ignorance.

Rant over.

So far I have done comparative tests with HPS, CMH, T5, MH, 450nm blue, 400nm violet, and halogen, alone and in combo with each other at 90 to 100 watts per square foot. All on sativa. The pattern's are starting to come together, this UV test should complete the picture for me. Or not, that is why the grow's actually have to be done for each combo. Prediction and test, predict and test some more. Sometimes it is surprise surprise surprise.
My lumen for lumen HPS/CMH test surprised me. I had expected the buds to be close to same but the HPS buds were still bigger by about 5%, the main surprise was the shorter time to ripe, a full week shorter for the CMH. Huh?
Again, this was not watt for watt, HPS slaughters the competition with half again more light watt for watt. Lumen for lumen evens it out and I'm betting that the 5% may have been due to the relative humidity going from 10 to 50 as the rainy season started. I am repeating this winter to be sure.

I'll be checking back in with myself in another two weeks, TTFN.
:kitty:

 

[paladin420]

Dude you give me hope for my 4 year old granbud who is autistic. Keep bein you.

My Indica when grown outside would drop yellow drainer/shade/fan leaves prior to harvest, but not the sugar leaves so much.. harvest was always before 9/15 at 45N
Natty is the best isn't she????

 

[LuvPB]

Sounds interesting, it'd take awhile for this little brain to wrap itself around the lighting information. Sounds like you know what works for you. I'm brand new on this site, 1st day really checking it out. Take care man.

 

[Phaeton]

I compare autism to being a redhead.
My aunt Edianne is a strawberry blonde, just a hint of red/pink in the blonde. Neighbor Caileigh, her hair looks black in fluorescent light, but in sunlight the red highlights shine through.
Seen alone they are both redheads, seen together they could hardly be more different. Autism is like that.

Information comes in without filters or priorities, I have an eidetic memory and my pattern recognition is literally off the chart. This allows me to organize stuff enough to mostly stay coherent. I have spent four years institutionallized, not fun. Others in there without the patterning were drooler's, so buried in random information they could not even speak. Even less fun for them.
Most autistics have all the emotions as normal folks, it is just not hooked up to motor nerves and without being able to mimic and get feedback the ability to recognize emotions in others is severely compromised. Somebody likes me? wants me to hang and talk? mad at me? wants me to go away? thinks I'm sexy? overwhelmed with their own grief? I have no idea. I used to think I was the only person on earth that could not read minds, everybody always knew exactly what I was thinking or about to do. I can't even tell when someone is about to smack me upside the head, always a surprise.

Since I am on a roll here, there is one thing I very strongly disagree with. The whacks in charge of the institutions put my emotional worldview at seven years old. Pardon my french, but that is bullshit. Most of what makes a seven year old a child is they have seven years of experience and observation to base their actions on. I have an eidetic memory and sixty years of stuff organized, I am so far from seven...

Now I'm upset, I posted mostly to say your grandchild is a full person inside just like anyone else, just stuck with bad in/out on social interactions. Autism is not retardation, it is just a communication fail. Most people I was institutionallized with were feeling people, all the hurts and happys everyone else has, it just doesn't show and they have to be told in plain language what you are feeling. It is all there, just hard to access. Interact when he has a high fever, for some as yet unexplained reason high body temperatures reduce the symptoms of autism, really.
I just realize you probably know a lot of this already, most folks have no idea and I tend to patronize everyone because of that, I do not mean to offend.

I hate yellow leaves, it is not overly rational but there it is. I can grow sativa all the way to harvest with every leaf still green. I am only on my second indica grow, my first one had less than half the yellowing as the two other grows I visit regularly, so I am expecting eventual success.
:kitty:

 

[cyat]

I think you should write a book, very interesting thoughts and you are a great writer!
stay strong

 

[Phaeton]

Lower areas in the flats are getting frost, living on a hill gives an extra couple weeks but the cold is moving up.
Won't have to blow all the hot air out the windows anymore, fans will go on recirculate mode. I was looking in the budroom door just thinking, I do that a lot, when I noticed all the fans making noise. I almost took a picture, there were seven fans in view stirring the air around sixteen light fixtures.

I remember having one light with a bent coathanger holding a mylar curtain around it. The light was on a pulley and I would lift it off the plant for watering and then lower it back down, like a no-door tent. Stuff kept getting added a part at a time. Now it is three rooms and twenty three lights, not counting CFL spotlights (9).
This all cames to mind as I just ordered a digital ballast for the test room. The sunpulse bulbs I ordered with it advertises full spectrum all the way through the top half of UVC (tiny amount only, UVC unravels DNA). One of my peeves is the myth of HID's putting out UV, this one does. The others still do not. This particular light has UV warning labels on it, a requirement on any and all emitters of UV.

And this is how it all happens. Oh look, another cool light, I gotta have it. I do that a couple times a year. Looking over all the lights that did not pan out, its the nine violet HID's I feel the most silly about. I have to blame being mental, I liked the way they looked even though I KNEW the lights would not help grow plants. Used them anyway, destroyed an entire harvest because the hue entranced me. Hate when I do stuff like that.

But this sunpulse IS cool, similar output as the CMH, but with UV added. Same price also, but the bulb does need the digital ballast which costs more. And a polished aluminum reflector.
White reflectors, which are way more efficient at visible light, absorb 100% of the UV. 100%. Tests show a bare UV bulb puts more UV on the subject than the same bulb with a white enamel reflector. 100% absorption, not intuitive at all.
I'm taking pictures of the UV grow and started a thread on it in the lighting section, the intro forum here is more about random mindset than tech specs. Speaking of pictures...


This is a five week along sativa with all the lights on. The T8 sidelight fixture is pretty much washed out, the overheads put out more than 150 watts per square foot.


This is a two week along indica, the T5 sidelights are red and blue, but that does not show up either.

Both plants are growing in the same room, this is not harmonious. Not sure what to do about it yet, but it is eating at me. The sativa trays are all spikey with long tall cola's, light can hit from every direction. The indica is a big soft canopy, like a shell, with no room for sidelight to enter. What to do? What to do?
Gonna sit down by the veg lights and read volume ten of 'Vagabond', Takehiko Inoue's graphic interpretation of Eiji Yoshikawa's 'Mushashi'.
I'm a second degree black in Iaito, I get lost in technique so my mind is free to work out problems that frustrate me if I concentrate on them. Cutting people up would be fun, but that is not the thrust of the training. Gardening balances the equation.
Balance in life as well as in the growroom and dojo, all is connected.
:kitty:

 

[paladin420]

Great read thanks!!

Dis-harmony? When I was runnin 20 different strains lookin for keepers I thought I might go nutz(ier). spendin mornings in my flower room with my gurls I noticed that they did not mind.They were at peace doing what they do. not to be flip, but it was like the disharmony had a harmony all it's own???

If you like some fiction? Steve Perry's the matador series..Mushashi flex?

 

[Douche_Bigalow]

Great read thanks!!

Dis-harmony? When I was runnin 20 different strains lookin for keepers I thought I might go nutz(ier). spendin mornings in my flower room with my gurls I noticed that they did not mind.They were at peace doing what they do. not to be flip, but it was like the disharmony had a harmony all it's own???

If you like some fiction? Steve Perry's the matador series..Mushashi flex?

The plants have read The art of war. They are just tricking you. They have you seeing chaos and really they are just chillin' in harmony laughing at you. They all will laugh at you. Well until you smoke them. Then you will get the laugh.

MUHA HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (Evil laugh is over now)

 

[Phaeton]

I'll show them 'Art of War', the sativa's have been pulled and are vegging to keep the line alive while the UVB mountain grown test goes on, hostages praying for spectacular results.

The veg room has 64 watts of Reptisun 10's the indica's cannot use, but will keep the sativa's ready. Just in case.
Now who's laughing? Bwahaha, take one for the team girls.:kitty:

PS: will chill at Barnes and Noble and peruse for Perry.

 

[Phaeton]

Growing is my day job. So every two weeks I post about anything I want, this is payday.
Money is coin, doing and talking about what I enjoy is riches.

Outside temp was 25 this morning, sealed the windows and put the fans to spread the wealth setting. The equinox is over, darkness is desending upon the north. Snow tires are on.

That UV test I have been on about so much is a bust, I'm too fond of high frequency light.
I have thirteen ultra-violet lights looking to join my nine violet lights in the closet, luckily high blue triggers early oil so only six of the blues got wasted from their test.
$873 in bulbs gathering dust on a closet shelf. Discharge ballasts get reused. 24" aquarium fixtures not so much, six of them with custom UV reflectors.
Glad I'm not overly attached to coin.
That cool sunpulse bulb and phantom ballast are in the main budroom. The sunpulse did not put out enough UV for the plant to see, I suspect no difference from any other HID as the packaging carried no federally mandated warning of UV emission.
95% of my purchases are through the mail, no pre-inspection of anything. A lot of blatant misrepresentations become obvious upon receipt, too late to unpay.

Mr. S______ was right, bringing UV indoors is the same as growing outdoors. Growing outdoors did not make superplants, nor did it involve purchases. Did not keep me animated and busy day after day either. I like doing this, even when it does not work out as expected.

The grower that gifted me the Northern Lights paid a really great compliment last week. He grows commercially, which is why he had a ten year clone still being used. I gift buds from his plant back to him when he visits. He confessed he does not smoke his own product anymore, unless he's out of the buds he gets from me. Wow. My hat is snugger already.

I have a 1975 Honda trail 90 to put in the shed for the winter. I'll be back in two weeks to brag some more about the pure joy gotten from looking at funny colored lights.
:kitty:


PS: part of the blade, the tsuba, and part of the handle is as close up a picture as I can get of my cutting sword. I needed an avatar, and the camera stopped there. If I had to give up the the sword or growing...the decision would be the death of me.

Back in June, when I was scheduled to die from cancer, I collapsed during a practice, heart fibrillation, I managed to say "sword in hand" and my daughter and I both smiled. General knowledge among family I intend to die with sword in my hand, that was close as I have been. Gonna die anyway, trying to enjoy that, or rather have something other than no no no no to occupy my mind during the big event.
I lost 95 pounds before the cancer stopped growing, I gained 5 back since June, pardon me if I find life great and don't have much fear. You also are going to die some day and smiles are better.

What a long PS. Whew, title says "ramblings", I'm OK.

 

[Phaeton]

Well, I harvested my first full tray of Northern Lights (love the name) and did about everything wrong possible. Good thing its a weed and grows no matter what.

The mountain grown test room has final numbers, The UVB is twice as much as at the top of Mt. Haleakala, Hawaii, elevation 10,023'. 1100 vs. 545 microwatts/cm2.

The indica likes it better than the sativa did. Here's a picture, it is my thousand words for today, just a little tired I am. At least this one isn't stretched past the light.

 

[nattynattygurrl]

Really nice work, Phaeton!! That is a very happy looking lady.

Growing is my day job. So every two weeks I post about anything I want, this is payday.
Money is coin, doing and talking about what I enjoy is riches.

I really like the way you look at things!
Give those kitties a treat, get some rest and enjoy the fruits of your labor!!