Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

[F. Dupp]

What kind of Bombs are you guys using? I want to bomb my room, clean, and treat this weekend. Thanks!@@

Sorry about my dumb answer, "nuclear", I was drunk. I used several Dr. Doom bombs in my basement when I discovered the micros crawling around in my laundry room and everything. The Dr Doom bombs are worthless. I should have known this because they did NOTHING against the spidermite infestation I had a couple of years ago.
My pops has several hunting dogs who all came down with fleas a couple years back and he said none of the bombs worked until he got a couple from the vet. He said the bombs from the veterinarian work great and killed all the fleas in the house and kennel. So, I would advise you to try those. Also, seal up the room for a week and hang a couple Hot Shot No Pest Strips in there for good measure.

F. Dupp please continue to post your progress warding off the micro version. The micro version has also infected my plants. I also had what I believe to be a red version as well. The red bugs around the rims of my pots (along with the micro bots) were either root aphids, or the beneficial hypoapsis miles. I am thinking they were root aphids because that plant quit drinking on me--and from dealing with aphids outdoors on my veggies, they seemed to move and have a ovalish body like aphids. Lastly, do you believe any high (5-6%) pyrethrin concentrate would be potentially be effective? Or is there something about evergreen specifically? Only reason I am asking is because I cannot get evergreen locally, but may have access to other brand high strength pyrethrin. I am not asking you to guarantee evergreen to work, as I know you cannot do that with every situation being different. Just about high strength pyrethrins in general. As I have certainly noted your potential success against the "micros."

I did not bother to attempt to fight these bastards I scrapped, honestly, because they scared the shit out of me. I have never fought anything more than fungus gnats. I did not want to let the damn things get going, so I pitched seemingly less affected plants just as well as infested ones ( 2 out of 8).

I decided to try to better inform myself about my potential opponent and start over, treating preemptively. So far I have armed myself with Bayer Fruit and Citrus, Spectracide, Botanigard es (this is available locally), Azamax (because I thought I had mites), Bud Factor X (to hopefully improve plant immune system, and Great White (to rebuild beneficials after pest control measures). I will also likely exclude FFOF and Purple Cow (vermicompost) from my next cycle to see if that makes any difference.

Here is what I was thinking I would do to try and prevent reinfestation. Apply Bayer Fruit and Citrus beginning week 2 from seed. Apply Botanigard 2 weeks later. Reapply Bayer Fruit and Citrus right before flip to 12/12. Possibly rotate weekly applications of Botanigard and Evergreen (or other similar high strength pyrethrin) until week 5-6 flower on a 9 week finisher. I will innoculate with Great White weekly or bi-weekly. Apply Bud Factor X weekly throughout grow starting in week 2-3 veg. I will be making sure my humidity stays under 45% by adding a dehumidifier to my lung room. Anyone have anything I should add to my regimen? This will all be done whether I see a root aphid or not.

I still havent seen an RA since I started using the Evergreen. Bug free for almost 3 weeks. I would say fuck all the Bayer and other stuff. If I could go back in time knowing what I do now, I wouldnt have used any of it but the Evergreen. This may not be your experience, but I would recommend using the Evergreen first.

I cannot speak for any other Pyrethrins as I have not used them. I couldnt get Evergreen locally either. I had to buy it online.

If you scrapped your grow you should hold off for a couple weeks to starve them, bomb them, gas them with the No Pest Strips, and I dunno maybe steam clean the room? I read somewhere that RA's and their eggs die at temps of 125f.

 

[GeorgeSmiley]

So curious if any of you guys are finding your "micros" look like this? These are hard to see with naked eye, 10x mag.

 

[qupee]

I found out I have these little bastards ...

Just got back from vacation and thought I'd update.

After the Spectracide, there was immediate improvement, but after 24 hours that improvement stalled and my soil stayed water logged for several days.

When they finally did start to get dry I started applying small amounts of water with Liquid Karma, Root Excellerator, and Superthrive. I got two treatments of that in over 3 or 4 days, with the soil staying fairly wet (I only applied 16oz of water to each plant).

After these waterings I saw strong recovery again. The plants all started needing watering every 24-36 hours again, and growth has continued. I was at a very stalled out couple weeks into flower, and now I have plants flopping over top heavy, with lush green leaves again.

I've treated the flowering plants again with Botaniguard, and treated all the veggers with Bayer.

Things are going very well for the first time in a LONG time.

 

[F. Dupp]

So curious if any of you guys are finding your "micros" look like this? These are hard to see with naked eye, 10x mag.

Its hard to tell, but I think those look bigger than what I had.

Mine looked just like this -http://www.youtube.com/user/bongorilla666#p/a/u/0/5haK5WYc3sI

 

[ballplayer 2]

George, I am SO glad you got a picture of those. Those are what I considered my "red" version hanging around the inside and outside lips of the containers. I figured they were a more mature version of the micro. Not sure if they are a different part of the life cycle or a different version of root aphid altogether. I do know for sure they accompanied the micro version of Root Aphid in my case, and in large numbers as well. My most affected plants had those suckers in large numbers.

That is the best shot I have seen of those (plus rep will be added, great work). I was not sure if they were root aphid, Spider mite, or hypoapsis miles. After noting the extent of damage on the plants that had them, I would guess root aphid.

Have you tried treating that version? What worked best for you? I did notice those were particularly difficult to crush between fingers or nails. Almost like they had a hard protective covering, and they would scramble to the edge of my nail (or try to fit under the front if my fingernail, YIKES) after a failed attempt to crush them.

Thank you all for your time and help.

BP

 

[GeorgeSmiley]

George, I am SO glad you got a picture of those. Those are what I considered my "red" version hanging around the inside and outside lips of the containers. I figured they were a more mature version of the micro. Not sure if they are a different part of the life cycle or a different version of root aphid altogether. I do know for sure they accompanied the micro version of Root Aphid in my case, and in large numbers as well. My most affected plants had those suckers in large numbers.

That is the best shot I have seen of those (plus rep will be added, great work). I was not sure if they were root aphid, Spider mite, or hypoapsis miles. After noting the extent of damage on the plants that had them, I would guess root aphid.

Have you tried treating that version? What worked best for you? I did notice those were particularly difficult to crush between fingers or nails. Almost like they had a hard protective covering, and they would scramble to the edge of my nail (or try to fit under the front if my fingernail, YIKES) after a failed attempt to crush them.

Thank you all for your time and help.

BP

I tried treating this version for a little while a year ago. Got a couple other problems sorted and didn't see them. Then got an outbreak of gnats and noticed these guys again. I ID's them as beneficial mites poss HYpoapsis and they were battling the gnat larvae.

Since then, I have purposely added these guys to every plant I have grown for a year. Have had amazingly healthy plant.

Their populations flux with food supply. These pictured are definitely mite family and definitely helpers in my soil. They're easier to ID in person as mites than I can picture.

Smiley

 

[the gnome]

ok, so is there any pics of plants that have been damaged by RA's???
Ive read the 1st 11 pages and not one yet?
I'm going to try the spectracide triazicide 1st on my soil/pots and see if that works, if not imid,... but then i read that it doesn't work... ack!!??

is there anything that works for sure on these apostle's of hell!!!!

 

[F. Dupp]

ok, so is there any pics of plants that have been damaged by RA's???
Ive read the 1st 11 pages and not one yet?
I'm going to try the spectracide triazicide 1st on my soil/pots and see if that works, if not imid,... but then i read that it doesn't work... ack!!??

is there anything that works for sure on these apostle's of hell!!!!

I posted some pics on page 85 and 87.

Evergreen 60-6 killed mine.

What kind of RA do you have? Can you specify by the pictures of them in the original post? crabs, tank beetles, micros, or red asses?

 

[RetroGrow]

if not imid,... but then i read that it doesn't work... ack!!??

Imid works for sure. Forget the other stuff you were going to try. The only people having trouble with imid are people who caught it too late, or people in recirculating/hydro systems.
Since you are in soil, start with imid. Let your pots get dry first so plants are thirsty, even slightly wilted. Then hit them with a soil drench.
They don't die instantly. It takes a few days to a week, but they will all die. Make sure what you have first. Pull a plant out of it's pot and inspect the roots with a loupe and bright light. Be patient. Sometimes it takes a while . Some people are confusing hypoasis miles for "micro" RAs. Totally different species. Imid cost only $12, and you should get the type that is for fruits & vegetables: Bayer Citrus or Bayer Advanced Complete are the best choice unless you have a huge wharehouse grow. Then get Merit. I used one ounce of my Bayer Complete and never saw another RA or fungus gnat again. It's a lifetime supply for a small grower.

 

[the gnome]

ive had gnats for the last 6 weeks, prayed the flyers, knocks em down and they come back, not sure if i have RAs but 3 weeks ago the new growth started turning yellow , soe leaves crinkled and the color is now turning white.
the fans are fine.
looking at the pics on 85-87,
they are in flower and what i see if the fans looking bad in the pics.
mine are in veg.
my soil ph is fine, but I flushed anyone last week.
Ive repotted a few and the roots look healthy but I now have a 60x microscope and I'm going to check pretty soon to see what i can with that.

 

[cyat]

ok, so is there any pics of plants that have been damaged by RA's???
Ive read the 1st 11 pages and not one yet?
I'm going to try the spectracide triazicide 1st on my soil/pots and see if that works, if not imid,... but then i read that it doesn't work... ack!!??

is there anything that works for sure on these apostle's of hell!!!!

that wont work, for sure.

 

[cyat]

bayer 2in1 rose and flower care granules with disufoton, not imid.
Don't know why people are afraid to try this? It works so good I'm finally able to reuse my soil. it lasts for 6 weeks. I have bought it at kmart and diy.
that stuff mighty wash for flyers!
stuff that didnt work for me:
spectracide
all the imid products
spinosad
d.e powder
d.e rocks top dress
perlite topdress
sand topdress
h202
neem
bleach
sm90 ( helps heal roots tho)
ecosmart products, big boo! deadly spray ( for plants bugs love it)
ortho bug b gone (kinda worked)

 

[F. Dupp]

bayer 2in1 rose and flower care granules with disufoton, not imid.
Don't know why people are afraid to try this? It works so good I'm finally able to reuse my soil. it lasts for 6 weeks. I have bought it at kmart and diy.
that stuff mighty wash for flyers!
stuff that didnt work for me:
spectracide
all the imid products
spinosad
d.e powder
d.e rocks top dress
perlite topdress
sand topdress
h202
neem
bleach
sm90 ( helps heal roots tho)
ecosmart products, big boo! deadly spray ( for plants bugs love it)
ortho bug b gone (kinda worked)

I was talking to another former member of this thread who took your advice on trying the 2in1 with disfuloton. He said it worked for him too and his RA's are gone now. He doesnt want to come on here and talk about it for fear of it starting an arguement.
Apparently he was lucky enough to find an old bottle on the back shelf at Home Depot. Bayer stopped selling Disfuloton in the US in 2009 I guess. So that is a problem.

But just so you know, someone did take your advice and it worked for him. (I dont know if you have spoken to him or not)

 

[RetroGrow]

bayer 2in1 rose and flower care granules with disufoton, not imid.
Don't know why people are afraid to try this? It works so good I'm finally able to reuse my soil. it lasts for 6 weeks. I have bought it at kmart and diy.

Bro, that IS Imid. I don't know where you got the idea that it isn't imid, unless it's an older version or from Canada. Just look at the label, which is posted online . Any imid product will work. That particular version has rose food in it, so really not specific to our plant, but will work fine. Has a low concentration of imid (.22%) so would be good for early flower if you don't notice the RAs early. It's almost identical concentration as Bayer Fruit, Citrus & Vegetable (.23%). Bayer Complete has a higher concentration of Imid @ .72%, and also contains the contact killer B-Cyfluthrin, which kills fungus gnats, etc., on contact. B-Cyfluthrin does NOT kill RAs on contact, but the imid does it's work systemically. Bayer Tree & Shrub Contains 1.1% to 2.9 % Imid, depending on which type, This is also know as Merit. It's made for trees & shrubs, and lingers in the soil longer, so not the best choice for our use, unless you want to dilute it.
If you are in early flower, the best choice would be Bayer Fruit, Citrus & Vegetable, or Bayer Complete if you want the added contact killer for use against fungus gnats, but it probably should be diluted so that is doesn't linger as long, although the label says it can be used up until 7-21 days from harvest on edibles, depending on which fruit or vegetable you are talking about.
The Rose & Flower Care are granules, so not as good as Bayer Fruit, Citrus & Vegetable, IMO, because easier to mix a liquid.
I hope that clears up, once & for all the seemingly endless confusion about imid products.

 

[cyat]

fdupp thanks bro I know who u mean thats awesome!

retrogrow for the last time, the bayer 2in1 rose care I have has DISULFOTN no imid

I think I can read a label!!!!!!

the one I use is not discontinued D.I.Y. is a huge chain store and they have a huge display of it.

unlike your "remedies" , which I tried, this actually works I am reusing my soil as a testament to this.
and all my disulfoton plants lived unlike youre self admitted sick room syndrome plants

maybe you should try my advice

 

[cyat]

Bro, that IS Imid. I don't know where you got the idea that it isn't imid


haha, the label

 

[slowandeasy]

Bro, that IS Imid. I don't know where you got the idea that it isn't imid


haha, the label

In a 30 second search of the internet I found both kinds. The question about all of these systemic products is, where is the proof that it is not in the final product? I would rather chuck my plants than ingest harmful chemicals. I know what the labels say, but has anyone proved that their buds were actually safe to smoke?

Also, how are you using the granules? I bought some Evergreen, and have been using it for almost a week. I am not sure if it is working or not, because I only saw 1 aphid in the first place. I hope it works, because it really effected my last plants yield.

I have a question though. I have a plant that is about 5 weeks into flower. She started showing signs of RA's and that is the plant that I saw the 1 on the roots. Anyhow, it is not getting better. It is still bulking up, but the fan leaves are still showing Cal-Mag def signs. Anyhow, should I scrap her, or try to keep her around for another month? Part of me wants to just chuck it, but it should yield pretty decent even with the RA hiccup. Any advice?

 

[RetroGrow]

fdupp thanks bro I know who u mean thats awesome!

retrogrow for the last time, the bayer 2in1 rose care I have has DISULFOTN no imid

I think I can read a label!!!!!!

the one I use is not discontinued D.I.Y. is a huge chain store and they have a huge display of it.

unlike your "remedies" , which I tried, this actually works I am reusing my soil as a testament to this.
and all my disulfoton plants lived unlike youre self admitted sick room syndrome plants

maybe you should try my advice

I don't need your advice, since I haven't seen an RA since a single imid treatment. And they aren't my remedies. They are Bayer's remedies, which have been used by thousands of people all over the world for decades, including many, many people here. Like I said, on Bayer's website they list imid as the ingredient.
http://www.bayeradvanced.com/rose-flower-care/products/2-in-1-systemic-rose-flower-care/sizes
And no mention of disulfoton (by the way, you spelled it wrong, no surprise), and that's because, unlike what you said it is discontinued due to restrictions by the U.S. Government, which is why I said maybe you got it in Canada.
"The use of the substance has been restricted by the US government. Bayer, the manufacturer, is exiting the US market December 31, 2009".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disulfoton

So, if you want poison in your plants, and you want to poison yourself, be my guest, but you should not be recommending it to others, because it's not safe, and you should not be distributing poisoned herb to others. But you are an asshat, and probably don't care about that. To come on here and recommend to others to poison their plants is irresponsible. If you weren't such a smartass (dumbass?) and you did a bit of research, you would know this.
The fact that you couldn't get imid to work means that you fucked up. You caught it too late, or applied it improperly, or both, like your buddy fdupp.
Again, many, many people here have used imid/Merit successfully. Greenhouse growers and farmers around the world have been using Merit for many years to control root aphids. It is the number one choice for that application. Again, for the comprehensively challenged, Merit=Imid.
Imid is safe, your "remedy" isn't.
By the way, dead room syndrome is caused by a virus, and has nothing to do with this discussion.
But I understand, you are trying to be an asshat, and in that you have succeeded.

To other readers of this thread, DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE DISULFOTON. IT IS EXTREMELY TOXIC, AND CAN CAUSE DEATH.

"Acute toxicity: Disulfoton is very highly toxic to all mammals by all routes of exposure. Whether absorbed through the skin, ingested, or inhaled, early symptoms in humans may include blurred vision, fatigue, headache, dizziness, sweating, tearing, and salivation. It inhibits cholinesterase and affects nervous system function [2,8]. Symptoms occurring at high doses include defecation, urination, fluid accumulation in the lungs, convulsions, or coma. Death can occur if high doses stop respiratory muscles or constrict the windpipe [2,8]. Ingestion of high doses can lead to rapid onset of effects on the stomach. Symptoms resulting from skin exposure may be delayed for up to 12 hours. Complete recovery from acute effects takes at least week, but complete restoration of the blood to normal cholinestrase enzyme levels may take up to 3 months [8]. The oral LD50 ranges from 6.2 to 12.5 mg/kg in male rats and from 1.9 to 2.5 mg/kg in female rats [1,59]. For weanling male rats, the oral LD50 is 5.4 mg/kg [60]. The dermal LD50 is 3.6 mg/kg in female rats and 15.9 mg/kg in male rats [60]. The inhalation LC50 for 1 hour is 0.3 mg/L in male rats [13]."

http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/disulfot.htm

http://toxipedia.org/display/toxipedia/Disulfoton

I have worked hard and long on this thread trying to help people, and I am not going to let a couple of dimwitted fuckups come on here and recommend POISON!

 

[cyat]

retrogrow your a clown.an internet gangster in real life you wouldnt call me names.

 

[RetroGrow]

Right. Your such a bad ass hiding behind a keyboard.
Typical pussy.
With each post, you demonstrate your stupidity.
Keep smoking that poison weed. In your case it couldn't hurt.
The damage has already been done.
I just don't want you getting other people hurt/sick with your unmitigated stupidity.
Now go send another private message to that other fucktard.