feminized plant question... I hate to do this but...

[one Q]

1)Take a female plant from Feminized Seed stock...

2)Take a great clone from normal seed stock and feminize it with CS, use this pollen on the the female from fem seed stock...

Is this a recipe for DISASTER? is this how you get all MALE Seeds?

THe problem is that we really need to get down to focusing on ONE or TWO strains. If we keep planting seeds to find the perfect male, we may run out of room keeping every female and then have to kill some great girls... A true dilemma of epic proportions.

 

[TheGreenBastard]

Its a little unclear but I assume you mean you have a female clone grown from normal seeds and you want to reverse it with CS to throw pollen on your feminized seeds. If this is the case you will end up with 100% feminized seeds.

 

[Blimey]

A female plant is a female plant....regardless of it's lineage.

Using CS is just an artificial work-around so as to force the pollen-making mechanism...which (pretty much) all cannabis plants of any sex have in their genes to come into play....but as there is no "Y" chromosome to pass, all the offspring will be female (XX). But you could still force those female offspring to produce pollen.....by the same use of chemicals.....because the genetic information to make pollen is not carried on the "Y" chromosome.....or at least not that bit of the chromosome that differs between males ("Y") and females ("X").

I am a male human.....yet I have breasts...(pretty much) all humans of any sex do....but I have genes that stop me producing milk and having a 38-DD bust.....female cannabis plants have genes that stop them producing pollen....unless you use chemical jiggery-pokery to circumvent it....but they also have all the genetic information required to allow them to make pollen.

If you fed me the right diet of hormones and/or other strange chemicals.....I could probably develop enormous boobs and maybe even produce milk.....but I'd still be male...

Humans' genetic makeup is a lot more complex than that of cannabis....so I won't push the analogy any further.....but hopefully I have made my point.

 

[Midnight Rudy]

Is there a limit to the number of back crosses one could make? for instance if you took your 2 female plants like 1q is aying and cross fa with pollen from fb, then selected offspring from that cross to back cross again with the fb pollen, and then crossed those offspring again with that same pollen. Does it eventually degrade? is this a viable way to stabilize traits? Is this commonly done in female seed breeding programs?

 

[Blimey]

You could keep doing it as many times as you like.

The thing to remember about fb. fb has two copies of each chromosone....and will pass one on.

If the 2 copies are different.....and they probably are.....then the offspring will get one version or the other of each chromosone....when combined with the copy of the chromosone from the other parent.....this will determine how the plant turns out.

So the more similar the 2 copies of each chromosone are, the better....as the offspring have a better chance of being more similar in more traits....

This is what we want - the same bits of each chromosone (that carry the genes we want) to be identical in each copy, so the genes we want are passed down 100% of the time.

So....if fb has some chromosones which have lots of differences between the two copies, there's no point back-crossing to it for anything affected by genes on those chromosones, as it will always be a crapshoot which copy of the chromosone you get in each offspring.

 

[BlueGrassToker]

Like with many things, there can be a down side to the good.
Too many back-crossings will result in "inbreeding depression" due to a lack of genetic material to recombine. Stunted growth and perhaps some mutation can often be seen with inbreeding depressions. Simply out-crossing a depressed line can bring about "hybrid vigor", and a return to a more healthy line.

 

[Midnight Rudy]

Great guys! Thanks for the help.

 

[one Q]

If you start off with a tru F1 hybrid, I THINK it wuld take a while to get depressed plants.

Im wanting to make feminized plants from a line that is PURE 100% Sativa and a line that is PURE 100% Indica. So the F1 Hybrid will start off with TRUE hybrid Vigor... Just worried about the whole One (the indica) is already from Feminized seed stock.

Good info here tho. thanks

 

[BlueGrassToker]

Just worried about the whole One (the indica) is already from Feminized seed stock.

Bear in mind that there is a difference in a "feminized" seed and a "selfed" seed. A breeder worth his salt will use plants that do not show the intersex trait in dominance and will simply chemically force one female to produce pollen to pollinate the other female. The plant used to force pollen will more than likely NOT hermie on it's own au natural.

The fact that a seed plant came from feminized stock has little to do with what will be the result. Feminizing is simply a means to an end, and what shakes out is completely dependent on what genes the parent plants hold.

 

[Midnight Rudy]

Bear in mind that there is a difference in a "feminized" seed and a "selfed" seed. A breeder worth his salt will use plants that do not show the intersex trait in dominance and will simply chemically force one female to produce pollen to pollinate the other female. The plant used to force pollen will more than likely NOT hermie on it's own au natural.

The fact that a seed plant came from feminized stock has little to do with what will be the result. Feminizing is simply a means to an end, and what shakes out is completely dependent on what genes the parent plants hold.

You are saying it like selfed means that it is always a natural hermie and feminized is always a stress induced hermie. I'm not sure you are using those words right. A natual hermie is just that, and a selfed plant is one that is used to polinate itself (or a clone of itself) through stress or as a natural hermaphrodite. That would be designated as a "S1" seed if my understanding is correct. It is also my understanding, and limited experience, that there is good potential for S1 plants to lack in vigor which is why, in my understanding, breeders will usually cross sisters to make a feminized line. Crossing that stress hermie pollen with another female plant of a different line is what the OP was asking about and my question was if continuing on with that was a viable way to isolate traits without having to keep dads.

For the record this post isn't me stating fact but stating what I believe to be true in order to continue this discussion and more fully understand all of this.

 

[BlueGrassToker]

If you read what I posted again, you may see that I am not stating anything at all incorrectly...or "not right" as you put it.
What I was trying to convey to one Q is that there should be less fear of a hermie prone plant coming about from feminized seed. A responsible breeder will do what is needed to use the best parental plants. More like than not the parent females the breeder picked to breed with will not show dominant signs of the intersex gene.
An S1 is generally considered a "selfed 1st generation" plant. An R1 would be a "reversed 1st generation" plant. Many neglect to use anything but the S in their nomenclature when referring to feminized plants.
Feminized can mean from a responsible breeders forcing or a hermie spew. :shrug:

 

[High Country]

Its a little unclear but I assume you mean you have a female clone grown from normal seeds and you want to reverse it with CS to throw pollen on your feminized seeds. If this is the case you will end up with 100% feminized seeds.

It is a little bit confusing, isn't it?

If what you say was the intention then yes, feminised will be produced.

But if we breed with a seed and a clone then a hybrid will be produced although feminised. It will not be a true genetic copy...well, that's what I figure.

To produce a feminised seed having exactly the same traits as the original requires identical clones of the original plant.

Or do what I did...took clones off a mother...then reversed her...and used her pollen to fuck her daughters.

Easier to understand stated that way.

 

[High Country]

If the mother plant is stable, displays no hermie tendencies and has the characteristics you want then that plant is a candidate for a sex reversal.

The pollen of the reversed plant can be used to pollinate a clone of itself.

Seed produced will be female and display exactly those same characteristics as the original mother plant before reversal.

 

[one Q]

Even if the plant you want to reverse already comes from reversed parents (fem seeds) herself?

 

[redneck shogun]

Seed produced will be female and display exactly those same characteristics as the original mother plant before reversal.

You ever done this yourself? Because I've never seen seeds of any sort that produced carbon copy plants.

 

[High Country]

You ever done this yourself? Because I've never seen seeds of any sort that produced carbon copy plants.

Identical, read my thread below in the link...COLLOIDAL SILVER.

 

[High Country]

Even if the plant you want to reverse already comes from reversed parents (fem seeds) herself?

I reckon the male genes should still be in their and reversal of a fem seed plant should work. After all, the reversal is caused by chemicals, be it CS or STS.

You should give it a go one Q and start a thread.

Got me thinking now, I've still got some of my own fem seeds left and all of my mother plants and stock are descendants of CS fem seed.

Might have to crank up the Colloidal Silver generator again.

 

[one Q]

hmmmm....

 

[dreadedhead]

Yes you will get all female beans.....i am not a fan of feminized seeds myself i feel they are to easily stressed although i have smoke some fine herb from some fem plants...but a great question to be asked this thread probablly helped alot of people

 

[Cola Candy]

If you clone a mother plant and reverse that clone, take the pollen from the reversed plant and pollinate the mother, the resulting plants will be the same as an S1. But to say it would be a clone of the mother, or the clone of the mother where the pollen came from is not correct unless the mother was an ibl afaik. It would be more or less analogous to crossing F1 individuals to produce F2 progeny, except the plants would be all female. So you'd have a lot of variation.

Is this not correct?