AVID Health Concerns

[GotChaman]

How bad is this stuff actually?
I read the MSDS, and it seems the precautions are just overkill... or ARE THEY?

Do you guys actually wear a respirator while using AVID?
How long does AVID stay in your grow room after use?
If you have good ventilation, than no worries?

I used this product once a few weeks ago, I sprayed my ladies as a preventative... with a spray/mist bottle.....and that very day I sort of felt something in my respiratory... the way to describe it is a bad taste was leaving my breathing tubes. And I felt this for a few days afterwards. Anyone else experience this?

Should we all just steer away from this product because of health concerns?

Thanks in advance....

Chaman

 

[chefro420]

Nasty shit. I believe it effects your nevers. Heard heads feet tingling and going numb and other nice stuff

 

[GotChaman]

Nasty shit. I believe it effects your nevers. Heard heads feet tingling and going numb and other nice stuff

From repeated use over time?

 

[chefro420]

Think it was from one exposure from spray on his leg. I wouldn't go nuts worrying about it though . You prob just inhaled a little fine mist . Just be more careful next time!

 

[budbasket]

Pesticides affect your nervous system: dizziness, trouble breathing, excessive sweating/salivation are symptoms of a poisoning. Heard a story of a group of farm workers going into a field 2 hours after it had been sprayed with a fluorocarbon. The half-life of dangerous amounts was actually around 2 weeks, all ended up getting very sick and required hospitalization.
Even "safe" amounts can cause chronic exposure risks. Strawberry pickers that do not wear gloves when picking, receive on average around 3 times as many ppm (I believe it was around 140ppm) dose as does the picker who wears gloves. Although the exposure rate is far different from eating 4-5 strawberries and going and picking several thousand berries a day.
As for cannabis, I have no idea the effects of smoking traces, I just started using eagle, well a knocked down version of eagle, and hate that I have to, but certain times PM is unavoidable. I let everything bloom 10 weeks and don't spray after the 1st day of flower but still....thank god I haven't had a problem with any sort of insect infestation *knock on wood*-basket

 

[Mr.Fiskars]

Avid is bad juju.
Maybe try azamax or floramite as the lesser of two evils?

 

[qupee]

I'd choose Floramite or Forbid over Avid (and I actually did choose Forbid, smoked those mites). But yes, all of these miticides should be used with proper personal protection equipment. Wear a respirator and gloves, plan to apply than take a shower and throw the clothes in the laundry. Just to be safe.

 

[MIway]

Whenever you smell these products, e.g., Avid & Eagle, you are getting higher than recommended doses through inhalation. If you can recall the metallic/chemy taste in the roof of your mouth... then you are getting higher than recommended doses.

The REI & respiratory protections exist because these products gas off, let alone aerosolized during spraying itself. Teeny tiny droplets also get onto your skin & into the blood supply. The face, eyes, nose, ears... all absorb these droplets even faster.

This is why a full paint suit, chem filters, nitrile gloves, goggles... and that's just mixin the shit, let alone spraying... is recommended. Even with this, I am lethargic for a day or two afterward. Hate this shit.

 

[qupee]

no personal offense intended, MIway, but christ there's a lot of chicken little "the sky is falling" folks on the boards lately when it comes to chemical treatments.

Whenever you smell these products, e.g., Avid & Eagle, you are getting higher than recommended doses through inhalation

Come on. Get real. This is Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt spreading at its worst.

If we spread accurate information about these products, it may be helpful. But pretending they are all terrible chemicals that kill you or instantly inflict cancer is so blatantly untrue that it's as bad as reefer madness. It just makes others ignore the rest of what you say.

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/24d-captan/abamectin-ext.html

Abamectin is a highly toxic material, however most formulated products containing abamectin are of low toxicity to mammals
...
It acts on a specific type of synapse located only within the brain and is protected by the blood-brain barrier. However, at very high doses, the mammalian blood-brain barrier can be penetrated
...
Abamectin is not readily absorbed through skin. Tests with monkeys show that less than 1% of dermally applied abamectin was absorbed into the bloodstream through the skin (5). Abamectin does not cause allergic skin reactions
...
In a 1-year study with dogs given oral doses of 0, 0.25, 0.5, or 1 mg/kg/day, there were no changes in tissue at any dose level. However, some dogs at the 0.5 and 1 mg/kg/day levels had pupillary dilation, weight loss, lethargy, tremors and recumbency. The NOEL for this study was 0.25 mg/kg/day (5, 8). Similar results were seen in a 2-year study with rats fed 0, 0.75, 1.5, or 2 mg/kg/day. No changes in the nervous or muscular systems were observed
...
Tests with laboratory animals show that ingested avermectin B1a is absorbed into the bloodstream by mammals and that it is rapidly eliminated from the body within 2 days via the feces (7, 8). Rats given single oral doses of radio-labeled avermectin B1a excreted most of the dose (69 to 82%) unchanged in the feces. The half-life of avermectin B1a residues in rat tissues averaged 1.2 days (4). Similarly, when monkeys were given a single intravenous injection of avermectin B1a, more than 90% of the dose was excreted in the feces within 7 days of the dosing (5, 8). Lactating goats given daily oral doses for 10 days excreted 89% of the administered avermectin, mainly in the feces. Less than 1% was recovered in the urine

Additionally, I see the safe exposure limit (which should be very conservative) listed at 0.02 mg per cubic meter. That means I could mix a batch for spraying - a large batch - and atomize the whole damn thing into my room and maybe just barely hit the SEL, or maybe not. I'm not sure if the 0.02 mg is for pure abamectin or the dilution we would receive as Avid. If that's for pure abamectin, then atomizing the whole application at once in a sealed room I'm standing in would be 1/100th of the SEL.

So, let's get this straight.


You can inject the shit straight into your veins and it won't hurt you. You'll shit it out.

Are you inhaling more than 1 mg/kg of body weight by smelling it?

You could drink a shot glass of the stuff EVERY DAY for years and not be affected at all.

Now you'll need to find another reason for your psychosomatic symptoms.

 

[MIway]

Actually, I feel you are the opposite extreme of the same underlying problem you'v identified with me... you are bit out of whack in perspective.

This is a neurotoxin... any level flowing through my system should really be considered unacceptable. Certainly, not natural. Seeing that it is something within our direct control, through our actions this unnatural level is determined. If you so choose to not take protections, then that is by your choice. And apparently, you believe a shot of the stuff is a-okay. I personally believe, one droplet is too much... for me. Thing is, you have a choice, just as do I... for how much exposure we get. I'll live with my extremist view over yours... any day of the week, twice on Sundays, three times while fornicating.

Drink a shot of it... do it up on youtube so we can all see. Not one a day, just the once. I would like to see you prove your extreme statements bro. Mine, just a bit of reasoning & rationalizing that poison is bad. Yours? Do it up bro.

 

[qupee]

ya well I'm not actually advocating any lack of proper safety precautions, and I certainly wouldn't take a shot .. mmm .. just as you're free to not use it at all or wear a space suit or whatever.

But to say

Whenever you smell these products, e.g., Avid & Eagle, you are getting higher than recommended doses through inhalation.

Just isn't true.

There's guidelines for exposure that you'll be under with any sanity, it's not easily absorbed through skin, and the body has natural defenses to prevent it from affecting most anyone in the amounts were talking about.

But, of course, do whatever you feel comfortable with. Share your opinion on what's comfortable even. But there's published data when can examine regarding studied effects instead of floating vague innaccuracies.

 

[MIway]

i'll grant you my liberal use of toxic, in that it isn't the epa or fda levels... or that i really haven't a clue to the actual dosage i'm getting.

but you do have to grant me that the very fact you can taste/smell it, means you are taking in gaseous molecules... and that this is specifically warned against, hence the respirator & rei guidelines. you're taking in a straight shot.

what those exact levels are, i do not know. but it is specifically warned against.

anyway... we both agree... take some precautions with it & minimize the exposure to the best of ones ability. in the grand scheme of things, think we can also both agree that we get a shit ton of exposure to all sorts of things living in a modern city, so we've gotta keep it real, ya know? cancer should be the expected outcome... getting old w/o it, the exception.

 

[GotChaman]

So heres another question.

Are we at ANY risk a few weeks after spraying? Lets say handling the plants, moving them, or picking the dead leaves between them... Should one wear a respirator and gloves then, or is it safe after spraying them.

I read that Avid is systematic, and stays on the plant for 90 days... is this true? Does this mean we still get levels of this "bad juju" for 90 days while handing plants exposed to Avid?

 

[Dislexus]

Would you spray Raid on your weed then smoke it 2 months later?

Its not that hard to grow indoor successfully without pesticides, fungicides, whatever for PM, etc

I can understand dousing a new clone but fucks sake that's all it should take.

Stop hanging out at the grow shops or conventions around other growers carrying spidermites. Stop letting other growers visit your shit dragging their mites with them. Don't visit other peoples' grows.

If you can't get your bud pure, you are doing harm and I wouldn't call you a grower... just an opportunist.

Because of the slack grower attitudes in med states, they are most likely to have all this 'cide garbage sprayed on their buds. Its farcical.

Black market I rarely hear about these problems (unless they get a clone shipped from cali)

Fix your habits, fix your environment, fix your genetics, do what you have to do to stop spraying shit on your bud. Then you're taking care of your clientelle, and a grower not some punk with lights, spreading joy not potential misery.

 

[GotChaman]

I agree with you, I dont want that shit in my medicine... I dont want avid anywhere near me. Now, its time to do damage control. Am I affected by handling plants that have been sprayed with this shit? Should I be wearing protective eqipment like a respirator, or gloves?

 

[supermanlives]

better safe than sorry.

 

[Sgt.Stedenko]

Look at the PEL (permissible exposure limit).
This is what the govt feels is a safe exposure scenario for a worker exposed to the chemical for an 8 hour work day.
I really doubt an application or two will get close to the PEL, especially since your not in the grow room for 8 hours a day.

 

[Marick23]

Hey guys thought I would chime in here. As I am the guy you find on CL with oz quantities avid available.


Avid isn't systematic no way, no how. You don't smoke it. After being in sunlight for 2 hours it's rendered non toxic. I wear gloves, a hospital mask, longsleeves and my sun glasses. I spray every clone that comes in. And the whole room before flipping to flower. I flower for 2 months. 60 days x 12 hours = 720 hours of big bad avid killing radiation. only 718 more than required to render it non toxic. No for those of you stating you would never smoke that blah blah blah. I get my abemectin supply from a crop duster. Guess what your eating everytime you crunch into that salad...

What came first? Avid.. or a huge boom in the horticulture scene making spider mite sprays more sought after? What I mean is Avid wasn't getting attacked until there was money to be made from us growers. Even with all the new products out there. Avid is the only thing that works. Now if there were an "effective" alternative that I didn't have to get dressed up for; I'd be all for it. Until then I will continue using avid.


Dislexus; Do you always talk out the side of your neck. You do realize that the reason you don't have as many spidermite problems on your side of the country is because of environment right? We don't get as cold at night or in the winter. So our spidermites aren't kept in check by the environment. Come grow some in Ca then talk shit k.


Just my 2 pennies. Been using avid from go. No problems here. I use it. Dad used it. Folks all over the world have been using it for decades. Everytime you buy food from your local produce your ingesting it.

 

[DutchBoy]

Avid isn't systematic no way, no how. You don't smoke it. After being in sunlight for 2 hours it's rendered non toxic. I wear gloves, a hospital mask, longsleeves and my sun glasses......for those of you stating you would never smoke that blah blah blah. I get my abemectin supply from a crop duster. Guess what your eating everytime you crunch into that salad...

.....Avid is the only thing that works. Now if there were an "effective" alternative that I didn't have to get dressed up for; I'd be all for it. Until then I will continue using avid.


Dislexus; Do you always talk out the side of your neck.....our spidermites aren't kept in check by the environment. Come grow some in Ca then talk shit k.


Just my 2 pennies. Been using avid from go. No problems here. I use it. Dad used it. Folks all over the world have been using it for decades.....

All excellent points.


Avid is a POISON, it is most powerful and effective against the scourge of mites.

Poisons should be respected. Use common sense if you have it.

I wear a can filter mask.

I would even go as far as a painters jumpsuit, but at least a surgical mask, latex gloves, eye protection (sun glasses...lol)

 

[MIway]

I own avid... and have used it... and would pull it out again, if shit hit the fan.

That being said... complete coverage with horticultural oil (with caution)... kills em dead... even the eggs. There are alternatives, depending on the scale of the problem.