Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

[Critter]

I went with the bayer fruit,citrus and vegetable its got .235 of imid. I hope thats enough I found the tree and bush with .74 imid but it had another chem in it and its label said do not use on anything meant for human consumption so im playing it safe because the flower room is in my bedroom next to bed and veg is in an ajoining bed room. Im only going to treat the ones in veg just in case cause i dont think any of this stuff was meant for indoors. There was a few green products with pyrithums that i may try in conjunction with bayer if bayer alone dosnt do it.

 

[RetroGrow]

You made the right choice!
Tree & Shrub is for trees and shrubs.
Also, Bayer Advanced Complete is good for our purposes.
By the way, Citrus or Complete can be used in early to mid flower.
If you read the label, it gives times that it can be applied to fruits & vegetables for human consumption, ranging from 7-21 days before harvest.
If you don't treat the ones in flower, they will spread and re-infect other plants in veg.
You really have to eliminate them completely from your environment, or you won't break the cycle.
Pyrethrins do nothing against RAs.

 

[Critter]

The ones in flower are to be harvested this month so I didnt really want to put anything on/in em. But the ones in veg are the ones going into the flower room.
they will all ready have been treated before going in and the untreated ones will be gone
the room will be cleaned and they will be treated again 1st week of flower. Hows that sound I also just ordered some sns-203 to use as well.

 

[RetroGrow]

Sounds like a plan.
You could go with Botaniguard ES on the ones in flower. Not a pesticide, but kills RAs. You could also use it as a preventative when the new ones go into flower room. Just make sure that room is really clean.
I would forget the SNS-203: not going to kill RAs.
Sounds like you've got it under control.
Good luck.

 

[F. Dupp]

Pyrethrins do nothing against RAs.

Thats not true. You need to loosen your stance on these products, Retro.

Imid did not work for me. Botanigard did not work for me. (Both products did fuck up my plants real good though)

Evergreen 60-6, a Pyrethrin based insecticide, has DESTROYED my RA's. I have not found one live RA (crawling or flying) in 5 days since I began using Evergreen. NOT ONE.

Im not making any promises to anyone, but if Imid, Botanigard, Spectracide, etc. have not worked for you, try Evergreen. Its expensive and hard to find, but you can run it constant through a recirculating rez, and use it up to the day of harvest.

http://www.mgk.com/Crop-Protection/Evergreen-60-6.aspx

 

[islander420]

Use SM-90. Works everytime and your rez will smell like pine treez

 

[F. Dupp]

Use SM-90. Works everytime and your rez will smell like pine treez

Well fuck, why didnt you tell me that a long time ago?

 

[Critter]

Ya right! Ive been using sm-90 since day one didnt work for me maybe you got gnats instead of aphids.
Also it smells kinda sweet to me

 

[RetroGrow]

Thats not true. You need to loosen your stance on these products, Retro.

Imid did not work for me. Botanigard did not work for me. (Both products did fuck up my plants real good though)

Evergreen 60-6, a Pyrethrin based insecticide, has DESTROYED my RA's. I have not found one live RA (crawling or flying) in 5 days since I began using Evergreen. NOT ONE.

Im not making any promises to anyone, but if Imid, Botanigard, Spectracide, etc. have not worked for you, try Evergreen. Its expensive and hard to find, but you can run it constant through a recirculating rez, and use it up to the day of harvest.

http://www.mgk.com/Crop-Protection/Evergreen-60-6.aspx

Not familiar with Evergreen, but with so many things in your res, how can you tell which one worked?
Imid works on a delayed basis, not instantly.
With my own attempt with pyrethrins. RAs just laughed it off. I even submerged them in a shotglass and they climbed out and walked away (before I squashed them).
So let's hear from someone who used only Evergreen, although it will be hard to find volunteers for a test. Would be nice to know.
Where did you hear about it?
By the way, I don't have a stance on this. I would be happy if someone came up with an easier/cheaper solution. As of now, the 2 things I know work are imid & botaniguard. Lately people have been coming on this thread and confusing the issue by throwing out ideas which I know don't work. It seems like some of them don't read the whole thread, ask questions, and then get responses from other people who didn't read the whole thread, and they just throw out unproven solutions that they picked up from other sites. Some of these other sites have a whole lot of BS in them, along with stuff plagiarized from here. So they mix in information and disinformation, people read it and then post it here without putting it to the test. This is by far the best site online right now re: cannabis, because people keep it real and BS doesn't fly.

 

[zor]

So let's hear from someone who used only Evergreen, although it will be hard to find volunteers for a test. Would be nice to know.
Where did you hear about it?

retro, there is actually info on this site re: succesful use of pyre.

Your experience is not everyone's. That is the beauty of sites such as this one. We can all share info together. To you, the conflicting info to your 'solution' is called 'bs'. To some of us, those conflicts of experience is what we need to investigate to understand deeper for everyone's benefit.

[/QUOTE]

 

[F. Dupp]

Not familiar with Evergreen, but with so many things in your res, how can you tell which one worked?
Imid works on a delayed basis, not instantly.
With my own attempt with pyrethrins. RAs just laughed it off. I even submerged them in a shotglass and they climbed out and walked away (before I squashed them).
So let's hear from someone who used only Evergreen, although it will be hard to find volunteers for a test. Would be nice to know.
Where did you hear about it?

I had flushed the Bayer Complete and Botanicare (used seperately) from my system, each having done their own specific damage to the RA's and the plants. I had been using the Imid for a few weeks and it seems that while the contact killer in the Bayer Complete was working, the Imid didnt do much. After removing the Bayer from my rez, the RA's immediately began to flourish.

With the Bayer Complete in my rez the bugs were few and lathargic. When I removed it they went right back to work, multiplying and running amazingly fast for a bug their size. The Imid didnt slowly begin to work. It didnt work. I watched the water levels in the rez drop after I added the Bayer too. The plants were drinking it despite damaged roots.

Botanigard did nothing but fuck up my rez. If you are running a recirculating rez DO NOT USE BOTANIGARD.


I heard about Evergreen on a lesser weed forum.
Google "evergreen root aphid" for more info.

 

[EastCoastMeds]

My RA are back after basically stopping treatments. I knew they were prolly still there. But after spending a good amount of money on Azamax, Botanigard ES, pyrethrins, bombs....etc.....I have decided the only way out is a shut down and bleach/steam cleaning...then re-starting with fresh clones.

Saw the best knock down with Botanigard ES.

I did just get some free samples of SNS203 and I am going to give it a shot when the girls dry out.

I grow in ProMix.....got a pal that thins they came from there. I don't think so. I think they can come in any organic bag of soil or organic soil amendments. I think mine originally came from General Organics Ancient Forest.

It was the only thing I changed prior to seeing RA. No new clones, everything is hospital clean....you could even say white glove inspection clean.

So, for those perpetual folks, I definitely recommend Botanigard ES. With enough treatments (and money spent) you could get rid of them with it. I slacked off at the end.....didn't finish the bottle of meds like the Doc told me. LOL

Also, see alot of folks mention on here about RA eggs. Alot of reading done......they don't have eggs, they give birth to pregnant live young. This is one reason they build up a population so fast.

Fuckers.

OK peeps, thanks for the chats.

 

[RetroGrow]

My RA are back after basically stopping treatments. I knew they were prolly still there. But after spending a good amount of money on Azamax, Botanigard ES, pyrethrins, bombs....etc.....I have decided the only way out is a shut down and bleach/steam cleaning...then re-starting with fresh clones.

Saw the best knock down with Botanigard ES.

I did just get some free samples of SNS203 and I am going to give it a shot when the girls dry out.

I grow in ProMix.....got a pal that thins they came from there. I don't think so. I think they can come in any organic bag of soil or organic soil amendments. I think mine originally came from General Organics Ancient Forest.

It was the only thing I changed prior to seeing RA. No new clones, everything is hospital clean....you could even say white glove inspection clean.

So, for those perpetual folks, I definitely recommend Botanigard ES. With enough treatments (and money spent) you could get rid of them with it. I slacked off at the end.....didn't finish the bottle of meds like the Doc told me. LOL

Also, see alot of folks mention on here about RA eggs. Alot of reading done......they don't have eggs, they give birth to pregnant live young. This is one reason they build up a population so fast.

Fuckers.

OK peeps, thanks for the chats.

You didn't try imid?

 

[F. Dupp]

My RA are back after basically stopping treatments. I knew they were prolly still there. But after spending a good amount of money on Azamax, Botanigard ES, pyrethrins, bombs....etc.....I have decided the only way out is a shut down and bleach/steam cleaning...then re-starting with fresh clones.

Saw the best knock down with Botanigard ES.

I did just get some free samples of SNS203 and I am going to give it a shot when the girls dry out.

I grow in ProMix.....got a pal that thins they came from there. I don't think so. I think they can come in any organic bag of soil or organic soil amendments. I think mine originally came from General Organics Ancient Forest.

It was the only thing I changed prior to seeing RA. No new clones, everything is hospital clean....you could even say white glove inspection clean.

So, for those perpetual folks, I definitely recommend Botanigard ES. With enough treatments (and money spent) you could get rid of them with it. I slacked off at the end.....didn't finish the bottle of meds like the Doc told me. LOL

Also, see alot of folks mention on here about RA eggs. Alot of reading done......they don't have eggs, they give birth to pregnant live young. This is one reason they build up a population so fast.

Fuckers.

OK peeps, thanks for the chats.

The winged form of RA's lay eggs. Keep reading.

 

[RetroGrow]

After removing the Bayer from my rez, the RA's immediately began to flourish.

With the Bayer Complete in my rez the bugs were few and lathargic. When I removed it they went right back to work, multiplying and running amazingly fast for a bug their size.

Not trying to be argumentative, but your statements seem contradictory. You say with the Bayer in your res, the bugs were few and lethargic, and when you removed it, they went right back to work multiplying.
That seems to imply it was working, but slowly.
Well it does work slowly, not being a contact killer, and it "works" even more slowly in hydro, for reasons I still don't understand. They are tougher to get rid of in hydro for unknown reasons.
My advice to anyone in hydro, or anyone where treatment is not working up to par because of root damage, is to use it as a foliar spray on the plants, along with a penetrator, like Dutch Master's Gold. This will introduce imid into the plants without using the roots. Don't know why no one has tried this. It's been mentioned several times, and logically, it should work.
Early detection is key with RAs so check your roots early and often, and if you use soil, sterilize it first before introducing it to your room.

 

[F. Dupp]

I did not contradict. The systemic had no effect. When the Bayer was removed the bugs stopped dying. They began to thrive again.

 

[RetroGrow]

I did not contradict. The systemic had no effect. When the Bayer was removed the bugs stopped dying. They began to thrive again.

You're saying that when the Bayer was removed, the bugs stopped dying.
So that implies that it was working.
What am I missing here?

 

[F. Dupp]

My advice to anyone in hydro, or anyone where treatment is not working up to par because of root damage, is to use it as a foliar spray on the plants, along with a penetrator, like Dutch Master's Gold. This will introduce imid into the plants without using the roots. Don't know why no one has tried this. It's been mentioned several times, and logically, it should work.

I did do this with clones that I had just put into veg. I was spraying them down twice a day. It didnt work.

 

[F. Dupp]

You're saying that when the Bayer was removed, the bugs stopped dying.
So that implies that it was working.
What am I missing here?

Look, Bayer Complete killed many of the RA's but not all of them. Bayer Complete is 2 insecticides, Imid and Tempo. Im lead to believe that the Tempo was having more effect than the Imid.

If Imid is systemic, it should remain in the plant and kill RA's despite being removed from the rez. This did not happen. Almost immediately after I flushed the Bayer the bugs regained their old form. Within 2 or 3 days they had built colonies again.

Then my bottle of Evergreen arrived. I have not seen a live RA since.

 

[RetroGrow]

O.K.
A couple of things:
Bayer Complete has two active ingredients: Imidacloprid (imid), and B-Cyfluthrin. Imid is systemic, B-Cyfluthrin is a contact killer, however, it does NOT kill RAs. It kills fungus gnats, springtails, etc. Any RA deaths had to be from imid, just as in all other imid products (Citrus, Tree & shrub, Merit, and many other manufacturer's versions, etc.). I never heard of "Tempo". Maybe you are in Canada where they might have a different formula or are just using a different name for B-Cyfluthrin?
Imid is systemic, but plant has to absorb enough for it to work.
I am thinking that in a recirculating system, it takes longer for it to be absorbed in sufficient amounts, and longer for RAs to be killed. Also, after thinking about this last night, i think I know why they are more difficult to get rid of in hydro. Bugs are constantly flowing through the system. Not all of them are lucky enough to latch on to a plant and feed enough to take in a lethal dose before they are washed away, but new ones are constantly being born, as these things are essentially born pregnant, so their numbers increase exponentially. How they survive under water is a mystery.
I see that Evergreen 60 also contains piperonyl butoxide.
This may very well make the difference from regular pyrethrins, which I tried and found not to work.
Now we need a guinea pig to try a run of that solo.
By the way, how much does it cost, and are your plants improving?