Glucose/sucrose/Fructose in hydro?

[Z-Beeblebrox]

Can my plants benefit from adding these carbohydrates doing flower when I'm growing in NFT using inorganic fertilizers and adding H2O2?

I'm fully against buying commercial fertilizers and bloom enhancers, since it’s overpriced and I don’t learn from doing it.

I have read that a 2% sucrose solution will enhance root growth and oxygen uptake, but without knowing the medium and all conditions, it's not possible for me to fully comprehend how to transfer these to my setup.

 

[GF-Z]

maybe just try mollases, they work and dont make any problems, except strange root coloring

 

[dgr]

...using inorganic fertilizers and adding H2O2?

I'm fully against buying commercial fertilizers and bloom enhancers...

Horribly confused here, Zaphod. Maybe the dolphins will be along to sort this out. In the meantime, don't forget your towel.

If you are running a dead reservoir, why wouldn't you just put the -ose in your reservoir?

 

[LittleAmsterdam]

Carbs aren't for the plants, but the bacteria within the 'Root Zone'

 

[noreason]

Carbs aren't for the plants, but the bacteria within the 'Root Zone'

carbs are bacteria in the medium and absorbed by the roots.

Ususally carbs are big molecules, bigger than straight elements like N,P,K etc.... so they can't enter the roots with osmosis but there are other ways the plant can absorb bigger molecules like sugars.
Cellular proteins are there to make this possible.Entering the plants, carbs means more carbon for the plant.More carbon in different setups because every sugar is different.The plant can than decide what to do with that molecule, but in every way it will be used somehow.

I agree that most of the carbo products are overpriced, I use b'cuzz bloei stimulator that not costs too much for my rdwc setup, and in soil I use molasses and other sugars product gave me as gifts at cannabis expo around the world.

Just my two

 

[Z-Beeblebrox]

It's the size of the carbohydrate I am thinking about, precisely as noreason explained so good. Sucrose, Fructose and Glucose are big molecules that the plant can't take up.

And since I'm running a "dead" reservoir, there arent' any benificial bacteria to digest these molecules and transform them into smaller sugars like deoxyribose, lyxose, ribose, xylulose, and xylose.

Noreason - you mention that "Cellular proteins" makes this possible. Will you elaborate on that?

I have fructose, glucose and sucrose in pure powder, lab tech grade. Some kilos to use. But without any good explanation on how it will benifit my growth, I won't use it, since I won't risk my growth, messing things up.

 

[noreason]

It's the size of the carbohydrate I am thinking about, precisely as noreason explained so good. Sucrose, Fructose and Glucose are big molecules that the plant can't take up.

And since I'm running a "dead" reservoir, there arent' any benificial bacteria to digest these molecules and transform them into smaller sugars like deoxyribose, lyxose, ribose, xylulose, and xylose.

Noreason - you mention that "Cellular proteins" makes this possible. Will you elaborate on that?

I have fructose, glucose and sucrose in pure powder, lab tech grade. Some kilos to use. But without any good explanation on how it will benifit my growth, I won't use it, since I won't risk my growth, messing things up.

heya Z, I try to explain better but my english is not very good maybe, so if you want to have a good explanation you could google '' active cellular transport ''
Every cell, both animal or vegetal, has a membrane.
This membrane has a lot of holes, but only small things go trough it.
The balance from the inside and outside is regulated by osmosis.
Osmosis is a ''passive transport'' and it not takes any energy from the plant.
Bigger molecules like sugars cannot pass in the holes because their size, but the plants can use another method to carry sugars and other big molecules inside the cell.
These methods are called ''active transport'' because they spend energy (ATP if I remember good) to activate a protein on the membrane.
Once the protein is activated it can fix a sugar molecule and carry it inside the cell.Every protein on the membrane is specialized to carry inside a thing, so there are several kind of proteins.
Once the sugar is in the cell, it can be moved where the plant want to move it.Sugars are a supply of already elaborated carbon complex but the plant can elaborate it again and again to do a lot of different things.
The most important thing to consider is that sugar are a supply of carbon, the fundamental building block of life, so more carbon in the plant, more photosynthesis the plant can do, and more it can grow.
One more thing to consider is the brix level.Brix are a value of sugar inside the plant's tissue.
If the plant does not use their sugar reserve it probably will be more sweet than a plant that has used all the sugars reserve.


What to say more.... sugars are not salts and their molecules are more stable than others so they don't rise medium conductivity (EC) and you can't burn a plant with sugars as you can with straight fertilizers.
This because the plant ''can decide'' what enter in it and it's not regulated by osmosis....a lot of things to talk about man, but I have not so much time at now but feel free to ask if you want.

 

[Z-Beeblebrox]

Thanks - I did a little reading about it. Remember some from back in school, but haven't thought about it after that. Been some 15 years and some.

So I'll maybe try to add some sucrose to one of my current grows (2 weeks) and see if it takes off faster...

 

[noreason]

Thanks - I did a little reading about it. Remember some from back in school, but haven't thought about it after that. Been some 15 years and some.

So I'll maybe try to add some sucrose to one of my current grows (2 weeks) and see if it takes off faster...

I think the plant will benefit a little from adding sucrose but don't expect miracles.The real things they only need is macro and micro elements.Period.
I like to think that less is more, or keep it simple stupid as you want.
And I think plant will have more benefits from adding different sugars than only one kind.However glucose should be the most used by the plants and I would add a little of it.

Just to be sure take a cup of water from your rez and do a little test on it adding sugars.It should not react anyhow, but for example, a product from AN called carboload mixed in my water reacts forming white and dense inorganic slime,clogging everything.

Please update this thread if you have more detail on your progresses adding pure sugars
and btw...what nutrients are you using?

 

[Anti]

I've often been curious about this myself. Love to see any results you may discover.

 

[Z-Beeblebrox]

I make my own nutrient solutions using calciumnitrate, calciumammoniumnitrate, magnesiumnitrate, potassiumnitrate, magnesiumsulphat and a micronutrient powder called Rexolin APN. For phosphate I add phosphoric acid for pH down and a 3M potassiumphosphate buffer at pH 5.8 which keeps the pH very stable. Usually it never goes over 6.2 and lower than 5.7. I use tab water that's very hard in 50:50 with RO water for starting. Then tab water in the end. Only additive is citric acid in powder that I add to my nutrient solutions.

 

[Z-Beeblebrox]

This site explains alot:

http://faculty.clintoncc.suny.edu/f...o 101/bio 101 lectures/membranes/membrane.htm

Sucrose can be pumped into cells where the concentration of sucrose is already high by using the energy of a high concentration of hydrogen ions on the outside of a cell. Active transport pumps the hydrogen ions out and certain proteins in the cell membrane allow the hydrogen ions to reenter the cell. As the hydrogen ions force their way through this protein, the energy of reentry is used to pump sucrose into the cell.

 

[Z-Beeblebrox]

So I added 40g sugar to my reservoir (20L) 1/3 glucose, 1/3 Fructose and 1/3 Sucrose. Lets see how it grows.

 

[Z-Beeblebrox]

And had to change the reservoir due to bacterial bloom. 40g is WAY too much.

 

[the med man]

do not add mollasses to your nft, never.

dextrose, aka carbolaod, aka karboboost etc is available at the syuper market in the beer making sectionfor 1/100 the cost of the name brands. add it every day at 1/1o the recommended dose. or every 2 days at about 33%. always make sure your res pump is blasting, and never use with small root masses. i find to start in week 3 bloom is the best. they dont like it much in nft during transitional stage. make sure to check res for any slime on its walls, pumps, filters etc. if there is cut dose in half and try again. once dieled your room will smell and you herb will taste 10x better,

keep in mind sugar is great for breaking down salts, so that is totally an added bonus, peace, mm

 

[the med man]

ps. the slime will turn to rot, so be very cognizant of excess sugar in your whole set up, mm

 

[noreason]

40 grams in 20 liters are way too much for sure, the plant can't absorb such amount of sugars in a short time, but bacteria that eat sugars should be not harmful to plant's roots, or am I wrong?
Soil users add sugars thinking the bacteria level in the medium will rise and should be a benefits for the plants, because the bacteria are the same that break bigger molecules (organic and not).

What did you notice in you rez? bad smell? pH drop?

 

[Z-Beeblebrox]

Nothing bad other than cloudy water and slime on the NFT. The smell was sweet. I didn't check pH or anything since I just changed all at once.

I just cleaned out the reservoir and gave it a good scrub, and soaked all the hardware in hydrogenperoxide. The spreader mat was replaced and everything was put back to run.

I did however notice a slight stretch in one of the plants, but I would not say it was the sugar, since it could just be normal growth.

Today I'll check the reservoir and spreader mat again, as well as the smell. If everything is ok, I'll try to add some sugar maybe sunday.

 

[the med man]

pss, in all my set ups with the water we have, i do notice sugar also helps ,maintain a more constant ph level too.

that slime will eventually rot your roots, things should be squeeky clean or something will soon go wrong. speaking of ph, that slime will cuase ppm hikes from slime mold that will keep your ppm too high, and it will be hard to keep down trust me. peace mm

 

[Z-Beeblebrox]

Everything still fine - some def signs, but expected since they were out of the water for ½ hour.