How to tell if you plants like their nutrients via PPM

[stihgnobevoli]

what freezerboy is saying is that you need to measure the readings in both mixes before and after to know what your next step will be.

like freezerboy said the next step for you is to figure out how the salt content is both going up and the pH rising at the same time since they should be moving opposite.

but ill pretend that was a typo and you meant to say 450.

so if the ppm are going down and the ph is going up you need to add more nutes because the plants are using them. as the nutes go down ph goes up, till its back to plain water and no nutes.

so ph went up to 5.8 and the nutes went down 50ppm. what you would do now... i dunno why but what you do now is mix up a nute solution to add back where the ph in the mix is low enough to drop the pH down .2 back to 5.6 as well as adding back 50+ppm of nute solution. i think that would come out to like 1 drop of ph down, 1 drop of all your ferts, and 1 gallon of water with a ph of close to 6 already.

this is what you are trying to do everyday? or was that an example? cuz if you're planning on doing this everyday in an effort to keep your ppm at 500 and your ph at 5.6...

good luck, you're gonna need it. you should do what freezerboy prolly already said and just mix it up and let it come back to neutral then top off/ add back every week or however long it takes your plants to use all the nutes.

 

[TREE KING]

what freezerboy is saying is that you need to measure the readings in both mixes before and after to know what your next step will be.

like freezerboy said the next step for you is to figure out how the salt content is both going up and the pH rising at the same time since they should be moving opposite.

but ill pretend that was a typo and you meant to say 450.

so if the ppm are going down and the ph is going up you need to add more nutes because the plants are using them. as the nutes go down ph goes up, till its back to plain water and no nutes.

so ph went up to 5.8 and the nutes went down 50ppm. what you would do now... i dunno why but what you do now is mix up a nute solution to add back where the ph in the mix is low enough to drop the pH down .2 back to 5.6 as well as adding back 50+ppm of nute solution. i think that would come out to like 1 drop of ph down, 1 drop of all your ferts, and 1 gallon of water with a ph of close to 6 already.

this is what you are trying to do everyday? or was that an example? cuz if you're planning on doing this everyday in an effort to keep your ppm at 500 and your ph at 5.6...

good luck, you're gonna need it. you should do what freezerboy prolly already said and just mix it up and let it come back to neutral then top off/ add back every week or however long it takes your plants to use all the nutes.

i really dont know what to say guys. if i have a 70 gallon res with 100ppm and i flood the tray a few times i would have maybe like 65 gallons left in the res and i guarentee you that the ppm for that 65 gallons will read higher than 100. that is before i poor more water in. after i poor water in and top off its then below 100ppm. if the opposite is happening to you guys then ive never seen that before and remember im talkin about 100 ppm which is not too strong for any plant

 

[stihgnobevoli]

if you have 70 gallons of water and your plants drank up 5 gallons of water and the ppms come back to the same after you add back plain water?

then your plants aren't taking up nutes and you're over feeding.

 

[TREE KING]

if you have 70 gallons of water and your plants drank up 5 gallons of water and the ppms come back to the same after you add back plain water?

then your plants aren't taking up nutes and you're over feeding.

thats not what i said please read my post again closely stihgnobevoli. freezer boy is saying the ppm on the 65 gallons should be lower than 100 ppm in the example i just gave before topping off and i said ive never seen that happen before

 

[FreezerBoy]

if i have a 70 gallon res with 100ppm and i flood the tray a few times i would have maybe like 65 gallons left in the res and i guarentee you that the ppm for that 65 gallons will read higher than 100.

If EC climbs, you're feeding more than the plant can drink.

However, "if i have " suggests this is not actually happening, that the scenario is a fiction. First EC was dropping, then climbing; EC was 0.9 now it's 0.2. What's actually happening? Are EC and pH truly moving in the same direction? If so, we start by getting EC and pH to obey the laws of physics which state that "EC and pH move in opposite directions."

 

[rick shaw]

The best way to tell how plants like their nutrients. Listen to them they'll tell you.

Look at plants growing under the hot spot,compare it to the ones in the corner.
Plants under the sweet spot will show a nutrient deficiency first.
Plants receiving less light will show over feeding first.

If you want to use the PPM meter,measure input AND output.

Every time I open up the door to see the girls I'm asking 'how are you doing,can I get you anything'
Look at the leaves.They will tell you everything.

 

[stihgnobevoli]

thats not what i said please read my post again closely stihgnobevoli. freezer boy is saying the ppm on the 65 gallons should be lower than 100 ppm in the example i just gave before topping off and i said ive never seen that happen before

yes it is, maybe YOU should read what you wrote.

you have a theoretical 70 gallon res at 100 ppm, the plants drink 5 gallons, the ppms go UP you add back water, the ppms go DOWN. you are feeding too much. they are only drinking the water and leaving the nutes.

 

[TREE KING]

yes it is, maybe YOU should read what you wrote.

you have a theoretical 70 gallon res at 100 ppm, the plants drink 5 gallons, the ppms go UP you add back water, the ppms go DOWN. you are feeding too much. they are only drinking the water and leaving the nutes.

wow if this is really true than thats crazy because when i start new clones i will literally keep them at 200 ppm's for a week or 2 and ive never seen the ppm go down when the water in the res goes down before top off. are you really telling me that the plants are being overfed at 200 ppm? and let me add ive never scene the plants get burned at 200ppm when i was giving it to them. what i usually do is after i top them off there at 100 something and then i give them more nutes so they get back to 200

 

[Groseph]

I've always kept it simple and shot for a target PPM of around 1300-1400 at .7 conversion when growing under HID lighting.

When reservoir is depleted..sure test it if you'd like.. but your more important reading will be once you've topped off with PLAIN water to see where that brings you.

Reservoir starts at 1400PPM....
few days later I top back up with plain water to my initial level thus leaving me with a diluted reservoir..say 900PPM.

I would then ADD BACK nutrient to my diluted reservoir until I've reached my target PPM of 1400.

This is a lot simpler if you use a simple regime such as a 1 part nutrient or simple 2 part such as Micro/Bloom in lucas ratios or any other easy to use A/B nutrient.

If using a 1 part you dont even need to measure. Simple top poor 1 part nutrient into diluted reservoir until target PPM is reached.

Dont make it difficult. Hydro is dead simple.
The conversion factor chart in this thread as well as the rule about EC direction / PH direction is very handy knowledge to have to make it all make sense.

- -

 

[TREE KING]

I've always kept it simple and shot for a target PPM of around 1300-1400 at .7 conversion when growing under HID lighting.

When reservoir is depleted..sure test it if you'd like.. but your more important reading will be once you've topped off with PLAIN water to see where that brings you.

Reservoir starts at 1400PPM....
few days later I top back up with plain water to my initial level thus leaving me with a diluted reservoir..say 900PPM.

I would then ADD BACK nutrient to my diluted reservoir until I've reached my target PPM of 1400.

This is a lot simpler if you use a simple regime such as a 1 part nutrient or simple 2 part such as Micro/Bloom in lucas ratios or any other easy to use A/B nutrient.

If using a 1 part you dont even need to measure. Simple top poor 1 part nutrient into diluted reservoir until target PPM is reached.

Dont make it difficult. Hydro is dead simple.
The conversion factor chart in this thread as well as the rule about EC direction / PH direction is very handy knowledge to have to make it all make sense.

- -

Groseph so as your res gets depleted do your nutes go above 1400 ppm before you top off and your at 900?

 

[FreezerBoy]

If someone provides you with more food than you can eat, what happens? You leave some behind. One more bite wont kill you but, thank you, you're full but, some water to wash it down would be nice. The plant does the same thing, once full it leaves food behind and drinks water to wash it down. More food in less water means a higher EC . If EC climbs, it's because you've given the plant more than it wants, it's full.

 

[TREE KING]

If someone provides you with more food than you can eat, what happens? You leave some behind. One more bite wont kill you but, thank you, you're full but, some water to wash it down would be nice. The plant does the same thing, once full it leaves food behind and drinks water to wash it down. More food in less water means a higher EC . If EC climbs, it's because you've given the plant more than it wants, it's full.

i hear you, i just thought that calculation that you do was after top off not before. by doing it that way i can probably flower a whole crop at 2-300 ppm's because ive never scene the ppm's dropping at those levels when i flower. i do no to very little veg time though. so i guess when i start plants at 200 ppm il just keep them at that strength until one day i see the ppm's drop instead of go up. i appreciate the info freezerboy i never knew this. maybe this is the reason i get tip burn on every crop lol

hmmmm i wonder if you just dont have to give plants as high of a ppm when using advanced nutrients?

 

[rick shaw]

 

[FreezerBoy]

If you don't measure the res before add back, you can't add back correctly. You need to determine if you're feeding too much, too little or just right. If you add water before you measure the res, you have no idea if plants are full, happy, or starving.

Once you know what to add or subtract, whether you add water and adjust res or, add pre adjusted water that adjusts the res for you, really doesn't matter.

 

[TREE KING]

.... back in a sec

so if the ppm is set perfect then as the res gets depleted, the ppm stays the same constantly until you top off?

 

[FreezerBoy]

so if the ppm is set perfect then as the res gets depleted, the ppm stays the same constantly until you top off?

Theoretically. BUT, if EC remains constant, pH remains constant. Constant pH guarantees lockout, deficiencies and/or toxicity. You want a swing.

 

[TREE KING]

Theoretically. BUT, if EC remains constant, pH remains constant. Constant pH guarantees lockout, deficiencies and/or toxicity. You want a swing.

i hear you, thats the least thing im worried about because my ph is always going up. im curious to see next crop how long it takes for my ppm to go down while im at 200. very interesting thanks

 

[bobweirsshorts]

Rick Shaw nailed it.

 

[jackmayoffer]

In RDWC OR Under Current Buckets I have had my moms at 150 ppm for over 4 months and the plants are super vigous and after a day or 2 the ppm's will be at 75ppm We will do ad backs with a rez thats at 300 ppm. Now in the flower room we start them out at 200 ppm and during peak flower (VERT ROOM) The ppms are at 1200 .5 conversion and over night the plants will eat 300 ppm and the ph will swing from 5.9 to 6.2 this means the plants can take more but more is not always best. Towards the end the ppms will start to rise and ph goes down this lets us know the plants need less and we will drop the ppms 200 ppm. JACK

 

[TREE KING]

In RDWC OR Under Current Buckets I have had my moms at 150 ppm for over 4 months and the plants are super vigous and after a day or 2 the ppm's will be at 75ppm We will do ad backs with a rez thats at 300 ppm. Now in the flower room we start them out at 200 ppm and during peak flower (VERT ROOM) The ppms are at 1200 .5 conversion and over night the plants will eat 300 ppm and the ph will swing from 5.9 to 6.2 this means the plants can take more but more is not always best. Towards the end the ppms will start to rise and ph goes down this lets us know the plants need less and we will drop the ppms 200 ppm. JACK

jackmayoffer do your plants need 1200 ppm in flower to stay healthy or can you just push them that far? what would happen if you left them at 2-300 ppm for all of flower, would they be healthy?

the reason why im asking is because im noticing tip burn in flower with my plants right now and im only giving them 4-500 ppm. keep in mind these plants were only in veg for a week and there from seed. im really starting to think that with no veg time if i flower clones than maybe 300 is the strongest i should go for the entire flower period