VERT ..... the final frontier

[greenmatter]

http://www.anixter.com/AXECOM/AXEDocLib.nsf/(UnID)/71C22AE23FF1A43580256F24006EF67A/$file/B-1_7.pdf


i did iti posted a linkcan't f#%%$#g believe it:yay: ..........that may seem like a little much but it took me more time to get that link up than it did to build the yo-yo!


picked this up from another IC member who IS an electrician. explains the minimum working radius thing pretty well too. thanks B

 

[redspaghetti]

whats up GM!

slap me silly, how the hell did i miss this one

nice and clean set up there, those ladies are looking very lush, as well.

got me seat tagged and gonna keep it warm too!!
cheers,

 

[greenmatter]

whats up GM!

slap me silly, how the hell did i miss this one

nice and clean set up there, those ladies are looking very lush, as well.

got me seat tagged and gonna keep it warm too!!
cheers,

good to see ya red ...... you started it

 

[BudGood]

picked this up from another IC member who IS an electrician. explains the minimum working radius thing pretty well too. thanks B

No prob!

Here is the info you asked me to post here. Things are looking good too!

For everyone wondering, greenmatter asked me a question via PM, which he wanted me to post here. Here goes nothin'!

Is there any code for the radius that a stranded wire can/should be bent on? (again and again)? i am not an electrician but some of the pictures i have seen scare me. is there a code for what you are doing with the wire? i have seen pics of guys running a vert light balancer over a very small pulley, so is this as bad as it looks? i hate to argue with anybody but i hate hearing about house fires too.

Yes, there are actual codes regarding that. Here is a web page I found that is pretty layman friendly, explains it pretty well:

http://www.anixter.com/AXECOM/AXEDocLib.nsf/(UnID)/71C22AE23FF1A43580256F24006EF67A/%24file/B-1_7.pdf

Really, the person who's doing that with the pulley, should be using a larger pulley, like one for pulling water out of a well (I'd say it's between 8-12" round), that'd work alot better, and prevent the cables from getting f**ked up.

Another thing to consider: The cables running from ballast to lamp are running a much higher voltage than normal house voltages, it makes good sense to prevent the wire from being fatigued and causing a fire hazard.

Minimum Bending Radius

It is fairly obvious that most cables are designed to be bent or flexed. However, a related and frequently asked question is -- how tight can you bend a cable without damaging it?

The answer depends primarily on the specific cable being considered. There are several industry standards that give minimum bending radii for many different cable types. The most frequently used sources are the National Electrical Code (NEC) and the Insulated
Cable Engineers Association (ICEA).

But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. What is “minimum bending radius”? Take a look at the illustration to the right. In the
drawing, a cable is being bent around a radius of 12 inches. The bend could be the result of pulling a cable around a curve in an above ground conduit or undergrount duct. It could also be the result of laying a cable in the bend of a cable tray or pulling a cable around a sheave (rhymes with “give”) -- a pulley set up in a manhole to help ease a cable around a curve.

According to the rules of trigonometry that you learned so well in school, the radius of a circle is always one-half the diameter. Keep that fact in mind because, in the wire and cable industry, we usually give the minimum bending radius as a multiple of the cable diameter. (I think we do it to confuse newcomers to the industry.) When there is no circle present to determine the radius of the bend (as there is in the illustration above) just imagine a circle with a diameter that just “snuggles” into the curve of the cable. The bend radius is then the distance from the center of the imaginary circle to the inside surface of the cable bend. Easy huh?

Now, back to the minimum bending radii for specific cables. Below is a table of minimum bending radii for various cable types. The table is a simplified version of actual, more detailed, industry recommendations but is accurate enough for most applications. For more precise (but more difficult to use) information, see NEC Articles 300-34, 334-11, and 336-16 as well as Appendix H of ICEA S-66-524 and ICEA S-68-516.

Cable Type Minimum Bending Radius as a Multiple of Overall Cable Diameter

Single or Multiple Conductor Cables without Metallic Shielding-8 times the overall cable diameter

Single Conductor Cables with Shielding-12 times the overall cable diameter

Multiple Conductor Cables with Individually Shielded Conductors-12 times the individual cable diameter or 7 times the overall cable diameter -- whichever is greater

Portable (Mining) Cables-6 times for cables rated 5000 volts or less, 8 times for cables rated over 5000 volt

Fiber Optic Cables-10 times overall diameter for multimode cables, 20 times overall diameter for singlemode cables

Interlocked Armor or Corrugated Sheath (Type MC) Cables-7 times overall cable diameter

To use the table, obtain the required cable diameter from product literature, from the cable supplier, or by measuring the actual cable. Then multiply that diameter by the appropriate factor from the table.

If you have the cable diameter in inches, the minimum bending radius that you calculate will also be in inches.

Example: What is the minimum bending radius of a 1/0, 5 kV, SHD-GC cable?

Answer: SHD-GC is a shielded mining cable. Consulting the table, the minimum bending radius is found to be 6 times the cable’s overall diameter. The overall diameter of the cable is given as 2.08 inches in the product catalog. Multiplying 2.08 inches by the factor of 6,
we get 12.48 inches. Eureka! The minimum bending radius for this SHD-GC cable is approximately 12 ½ inches! Or, put another way, it can be safely bent around a diameter of 25 inches.

So remember -- In general, cables are durable and quite rugged -- but they do have their limits!

 

[greenmatter]

O.K. guys now it is time to get rid of some genetics, i got some good advice via PM on what works in vert and what does not, so the first part of my list either fit on the "not" list or i already have the strain in 12/12 and don't like what i see......

paradise seeds wappa

" " " " " " sensi star

legends ultimate indica

homegrown fantaseeds northern lights

next generation romulan

reserva privada cole train

---------------------------------------------------------

these are strains that worked for me with the horizontal game and don't really fit on the "CUT" list ......so far

dna sour kush

world of seeds obsession

g13 pineapple express

serious seeds chronic

reserva privada kandy kush

delicious seeds critical yumbolt

t h seeds sage

" " " " " " " a train

dutch passion euphoria

--------------------------------------------------

these are things that worked horizontal and at least in my garden are responding well (read kick ass) to the vert set up so far.....

dutch passion blueberry

barney's farm red diesel

seedsman power africa



so there is the list........ i really need some input from the cult on this one..... so please tear into that list and tell me what you have learned about these strains. i have to thin the herd here

cutting out genetics is like trying to decide which is the ugliest in a box of puppies ........ no fun, but you can only take one home.... shit

A LITTLE HELP ? ..... PLEASE!

 

[bobblehead]

ok buddy... let me give you the rundown on the genetics that we have available to us today...

Cannabis didn't suddenly appear on this planet 100 years ago. It has been here forever. The Egyptians, Incas, Mayans, Chinese... many many cultures... Have bred cannabis for 1000's of years.

"there is nothing new under the sun"

Today's breeders are taking the work of the past, recombining it, and calling it something new. I can go on and on... but I"m gonna cut this short and get to the point. There is no best, no holy grail... There is what you like and what works for you. That's not to say that there aren't genetics that are superior in particular aspects... but that's all in the eye of the beholder.

Finding a superior plant is a matter of growing enough seeds, taking clones, and keeping around the superior phenotypes. You can't tell me that Northern Lights is better than Oaxacan Highland... They're 2 different varieties of cannabis. Within their own gene pools though, you can find superior phenotypes.

anyway, that's my take on things...

So now the question is, "what do you value in a plant? Which plant best fits that description?"

I've never sampled your plants bro... Maybe you have some bomb shit? idk...

 

[Marlo]

Well said Bobble.

Of all the strains on your list Green, I have only grown Barney's Red Diesel, and that was years ago.... before I switched to vert.

Since I'm not familiar with what you have, I'll just recommend that you pick something with vigor and a good stretch. Stretchy plants are easier to train, which works well in most vert setups. At least for me they do....

Other than that, just pick something dank! That sour kush sounds like my kinda pot

 

[redspaghetti]

Hey Gm,

thats a fantastic list ya got there, any strains will work with vertical, it depends on the training in the beginning and understand it genetics, the grower play the role here.

If you understand you plants, and how they grown, you can manipulate them to grow the way you like in vertical, same concept with horizontal. Problem arise only when the grower does not understand the genetics, ie: running the strains first time and all that ...

I am sure you wont have a problem picking out those ladies now
I'll grow em all if i were in you shoes

cheers,
red.

 

[greenmatter]

SHIT ......... like i said i am looking at a box of puppies trying to find the ugly one. i am not bitching about good answers. but it would be easier to hear "kill it" from everyone and not have to decide myself.

a smart mofo told me a long time ago to listen to the people who tell you what you NEED to hear and NOT the people who tell you what you WANT to hear.......... so thanks for the advice all....... i'm listening !

 

[megayields]

GM;

What your experiencing is exactly why I like the vertical cult....no one here is going to directly tell you what to grow, what design is best FOR YOU! What we DO is make suggestions, and if your smart (like I know you are), you listen and then guess what?

Yur rewarded with, in my case, DOUBLING your yield and the quality significantly improving!

I am constantly amazed by the consistent level of knowledge and purre genius being exhibited here, I have no doubt that you will absolutely kill it with this grow, no matter what you choose......personally I am moving to more diesels and "proven" vertical strains, although I have to say my Tangerine Haze is kicking ass and taking names and the new Purple Skunks I am running are fooling monster's!

Best of luck GM.....I will watch this with interest!

 

[greenmatter]

What your experiencing is exactly why I like the vertical cult....no one here is going to directly tell you what to grow, what design is best FOR YOU! What we DO is make suggestions, and if your smart (like I know you are), you listen and then guess what?

Yur rewarded with, in my case, DOUBLING your yield and the quality significantly improving!

this is one of the things that i like the best about the cult. in here you don't see the smartest guys in the room hissing and spitting at each other, advice is given in ways that is easy to accept and understand. i said that to one of the "smartest guys" in a PM and his response was something like ..... we are busy trying to figure out our problems and help each other, no time to argue. if that approach was applied to every thread on IC, this site would be even better than it is (if that is possible).

THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR THE SOLID ADVICE ....... I'M LISTENING

 

[Anti]

we are busy trying to figure out our problems and help each other, no time to argue. if that approach was applied to every thread on IC, this site would be even better than it is (if that is possible).

If that approach was applied to everything and everyone on this planet, we'd end world hunger, war and develop free energy overnight.

 

[megayields]

Amen Anti......lord help our world ATM......

 

[greenmatter]

new pics

new pics



^^^ the last of what started 12/12 in the horizontal set up. after 4 weeks of horizontal they did not respond well at all to the vert set up. it was better than killing them and they filled some space that would have been empty ......... they are going to meet the fiskars later today




^^dutch passion blueberry @ 5 weeks 12/12 first run for me on this strain but i like what i am seeing so far. anyone out there grown it? how long did you go?




^^barney's farm red diesel @ 5 weeks 12/12 not a great producer in the old set up, but it seems to love the new one. if follows the same pattern she is about a week away from exploding. very strong finisher....... i can't wait to see this




^^ sage @ 5 weeks 12/12 first run on this one too. anyone out there growing it?




^^power africa @ 4 1/2 week 12/12 this girl killed it in the old set up and seems to like the new one even more. great taste and high,and IMHO a keeper




^^sensi star @ 4 1/2 weeks 12/12 the one indica that seems to like the new set up




^^northern lights @ 4 1/2 weeks 12/12 ....... this is my first "ugly puppy" ..... she would do great in the old set up but does not seem to like this one. i don't think she is going to make the cut ...... but i have more of these beans so if i want it back, i'm covered




^^old school blueberry @ 4 1/2 weeks ...... this is my wife's favorite strain (so it has been a keeper for a long time) great smoke but it never really grew solid/dense buds. it smells like blueberry muffins so everyone loves the smoke. i'm hoping pounding her with light will make her a little more solid. she looks good so far




^^dutch passion euphoria @ 4 weeks 12/12 another first run .... anyone know about flower time on this one?


so that is what i got going on so far. i think i'm going to put some a-train, critical yumbolt, kandy kush and a pineapple express in to replace what gets chopped today. i have more strains than i do plant spaces in 12/12 so i guess the only way to find out what i need to know is run em...... good way to stay busy


the one place that i think i am truly weak is pruning ( been doing the lollipop thing for a long time, but i is a different game now) anyone wanna throw their two cents in?

 

[greenmatter]

so ...... i have spent the last month finishing my build and getting ready for the winter. changed a few things around in the veg room to make things work a little better for the new grow method and trying to get the number of strains i am running to keep myself from losing my mind.

some pics of my very first all vert harvest ......... all ebb and flow buckets and all with a 10 day flush



^^old school blueberry ............ the dutch passion BB turned out to be a POS, but i am keeping this one for now



^^dutch passion euphoria ..........



^^power africa



^^northern lights



^^sensi star


i feel like i have made about every mistake possible with this first round, but with that said ...... I WILL NEVER REVERT! the hardest thing about the last 8 weeks has been not "knowing" exactly what the hell i am doing, but the system itself works great. there is a lot more to iron out but i pretty much knew i was going to struggle a bit at the beginning. i still have lots to learn but it is starting to feel like i am getting a grip on the slobbering clusterfuck that i got myself into. now, just like with any other grow method my job is to get a little better with every run .......... at least it is never boring

 

[Marlo]

Looks great Green!

The 1st run is always the one to teach you the most. You can take what you learned and apply it for the next run. And so on until you have your set-up dialed in.

Give those babies a lil more veg time, and you'll have the screens completely full. Good luck bro. Great vert!

 

[greenmatter]

Looks great Green!

The 1st run is always the one to teach you the most. You can take what you learned and apply it for the next run. And so on until you have your set-up dialed in.

Give those babies a lil more veg time, and you'll have the screens completely full. Good luck bro. Great vert!

thanks for the props marlo!

amen on the first run teaching you the most ...... been getting "schooled" on this one pretty good. with ya on the longer veg! also changed a few things up with the veg set up so i would get some solid growth along the entire plant instead of focusing on the top of the plant like i did when i was lollipopping everything.

evolution may be a bumpy road, but if you got some good smoke for the ride .......... ..... things work out

 

[greenmatter]

after 6 years the gearbox on my lite rail is starting to go south. chased my tail for a minute until growshopfrank gave me this link http://www.lightrail3.com/accessories1/

anyone who is running a yo yo mover think that the 10 rpm gearbox would be better for what we are doing than the 6 rpm? input welcome!

 

[bobblehead]

I think a $35 DPDT relay, some wire ($10 extension cord) , a $20 timer, and another $5 mogul socket would do a really nice job of moving your light around for the rest of your growing career.

 

[Marlo]

The 6rpm should be more than enough. Think of how much more weight they were made to hold and move. The lamp/hood combo is alot heavier than bare bulb vert.