Need some help..

[swarrrm]

Long time lurker here having some problems after switching to hydro.
Sorry no pics right now I can take some later when the lights come on.
So here's the info / problem

My biggest problem right now is leaf tips curling in and kind of drying up with a leathery texture. They're near the middle/bottom of the plant and new growth looks healthy but is a much lighter green. I've grown this strain before in soil with success and my veg group is thriving in similar conditions.

Strain: Herijuana x Trainwreck
Stage: Flowering 8 days
Grow: DWC
Lights: 90w UFO LED + 2 red 25w LED panels (12/12)
Air: 6inch typhoon inline fan for outtake/ smaller fan for intake
PH: 5.7
PPM: 1200ish
Food/Nutes: Flora Nova Bloom/GH FloraMicro/SM90

Any input would be much appreciated, thanks.

 

[FreezerBoy]

What type of water (tap/RO)?

How have EC and pH moved over the last week?

 

[swarrrm]

Tap but i let it sit for a day or so before changing, and i raised the ppm for flowering a little over a week ago. PH has been consistent. Thanks.

 

[FreezerBoy]

You say pH has not moved for over a week. Has EC been steady in the same time period?

 

[swarrrm]

I've been upping the ppm about once a week when i change out the water in anticipation of flowering.(from around 800 to 1200 over a 3 weeks) I've been keeping it pretty steady in the low 1200's for a little over a week.
Symptoms are less than a week old unless I missed it, it's gotten really bad since I noticed it a few days ago. I had a few big fans fall off when I touched them. At first I noticed minor curling on 2 or 3 big fans and last night about 20% of the bigger leaves have tips curled up and feel leathery or rubbery and are darker. Also switched from floranova grow to flora nova bloom a little over a week ago and started using GH trace.

 

[swarrrm]

Checking out your grows now freezer, awesome stuff. I'll try to get some root porn for you later for helping me out.

 

[Crush]

Long time lurker here having some problems after switching to hydro.
Sorry no pics right now I can take some later when the lights come on.
So here's the info / problem

My biggest problem right now is leaf tips curling in and kind of drying up with a leathery texture. They're near the middle/bottom of the plant and new growth looks healthy but is a much lighter green. I've grown this strain before in soil with success and my veg group is thriving in similar conditions.

Strain: Herijuana x Trainwreck
Stage: Flowering 8 days
Grow: DWC
Lights: 90w UFO LED + 2 red 25w LED panels (12/12)
Air: 6inch typhoon inline fan for outtake/ smaller fan for intake
PH: 5.7
PPM: 1200ish
Food/Nutes: Flora Nova Bloom/GH FloraMicro/SM90

Any input would be much appreciated, thanks.

To much N.

It happened at that part of the plant because that is when you shot it with the nutes so it will linger there for good.

The leaves will be dark green and waxy looking.

 

[swarrrm]

To much N.

It happened at that part of the plant because that is when you shot it with the nutes so it will linger there for good.

The leaves will be dark green and waxy looking.

Thanks for the response I'll look into correcting that asap.

 

[FreezerBoy]

Because nutes are acid, EC and pH should move in opposite directions. Asking about EC and pH movement is a troubleshooting thing like, is it plugged in? As such, the question isn't where are they now, they've been adjusted and so the numbers don't mean anything. The question is, what were they doing before you corrected? If you're not doing so, I recommend keeping a journal of these numbers for just this reason.

Because it's old growth that's ugly and new growth looks good (other than slight paleness) it may be the "problem" is gone. Old damage will not repair, we look to new growth to see the effects of our changes.

 

[swarrrm]

Haven't been able to get on here in awhile, sadly the problems have only gotten worse and now my veg girls are showing early symptoms similar. And yea freezer I will def keep a journal my next try. To try to answer your question about the ec / ph before. I check my ph about 5 times a week and try my best to keep it 5.7, I noticed it drop a few times(lowest swing being down to 5.4) and correct it accordingly. And honestly I didn't check the ppm as often as I should of in hindsight. I would raise it by 150 ppm from the last water change weekly until I reached around 1200. So basically I was only testing ppm for fresh water mixes.

I tried 3 days with no nutes to see if that helped and it kept getting worse. So I changed the water again (maintaining a 5.7 ph) and added nutes again. FloraNova Bloom/GH FloraMicro/SM-90) I started off pretty low at 700ppm and raised to 1000ppm over about 5 days now I'm waiting to see what happens.

Now my veg girls are in trouble. I kind of neglected them trying to deal with the flowering crisis.(burned tips/losing color/cupping) The only changes to water in common they had when I noticed symptoms was I started using General Hydroponics FloraMicro.(1/4 strength, in addition to FloraNova GROW and small amount of SM-90) I did see a swing in ph and ppm for these, they both went up(+.5 ph and +400ppm), but I brought it back to normal when I changed the water. (5.7/900) They all seem to be stunted too.

Here's a pic of leaves I pulled off my near dead girls in flowering, hope that helps. Appreciate any input, thanks for reading.

 

[FreezerBoy]

You want to check and chart both EC and pH daily so you can see the rate of the swing. Swing is good, no swing bad. The key is to slow the swing down so it moves from 5.5-6.0 over the corse of a week or two not every day.

1200 PPM suggests a 500 scale or EC 2.4. (or it could be 1.65 on a 700 scale or anywhere inbetween. Next time your meter gives out, go with EC instead of PPM or TDS) Anyway, try cutting feed levels in half. Chart EC and pH daily and adjust from there.

Never try to match the PPM of your grow to a chart. The chart has never met you, your plants or your cab. The chart has absolutely no clue what you're doing or what you need. Your plants, however, know exactly what they need and are incapable of lying. EC and pH meters are essentially universal translators that allow us to speak "plant." EC up, pH down is too rich. EC down, pH up is too lean. EC flat, pH flat sounds good on paper but, paper doesn't count. No one pH number allows equal absorption of all nutes and so a flat reading guarantees unbalanced feeding. Again, swing is good for you.

 

[Crush]

I tried 3 days with no nutes to see if that helped and it kept getting worse. So I changed the water again (maintaining a 5.7 ph) and added nutes again. FloraNova Bloom/GH FloraMicro/SM-90) I started off pretty low at 700ppm and raised to 1000ppm over about 5 days now I'm waiting to see what happens.
[/IMG]

All that's happened is you have fallen victim to internet advice and burned your plants. This has happened to me countless, countless times.

Here's what I would personally recommend.

Do a resevoir change.
Put your PPM to 400.
Put your PH to 5.3-5.5 max.
Wait 2-3 weeks for recovery.
Change resevoir every week until the problem is fixed.

Follow the above advice and see what happens to your plants in a few weeks. I think you'll see a big change.

 

[FreezerBoy]

If he's not supposed to listen to internet advice then he should ignore everything you told him.

IC members are growers here to share what they know. They are not hydro shop flunkies who sell hydro today because they lost their job selling cars and their shoesalesman gig starts tomorrow.

Max pH at 5.5 and you can expect deficiencies.

 

[Canada]

Freezerboycould you go into detail or link me a little more on the "swing"? got lost in the scale ratios

 

[Sgt.Stedenko]

The EC seems too high. Looks like tip burn on the new growth.
I never exceeded 1.2 EC, but I use a 150 HPS with cfl supplementation.
Allow the pH to swing between 5.5 and 6.1.
If you keep it below 5.5 all the time, you're limiting uptake of certain nutes.

 

[dgtm85]

well just my 2 cents here, why in the world are you running flora nova bloom with flora micro?? the micro is for the gh 3 part solution lol the flora nova is a complete base system with nothing else needed (unless that was a typo) if not thats your problem im assuming, you are giving them to much micro nutes and that is bad. kick the micro and flush bet things look better soon. i ran flora nova for years and now run flora 3 part and can tell you they do not go together.

 

[Crush]

i ran flora nova for years

Me too.

The big thing I don't like about Flora Nova is the shaking of the bottle.

I hate doing it with a passion. I feel that it wen't a 'long way' though. Lasted long.

Also the NPK ratio's on the bottle are a bit strange.

Overall I wouldn't recommend Flora Nova at all. When you are tired are stoned the last thing you want to do is shake a bottle like mad.

I would get that new low cost stuff from Advanced Nutrients.

 

[FreezerBoy]

Freezerboycould you go into detail or link me a little more on the "swing"? got lost in the scale ratios

Well, that's a little vague so pardon me if I ramble...

Water is an insulator. It's the stuff in the water that conducts electricity. Stuff like nutes which we measure through Electrical Conductivity or EC.

Nutes are acidic. The higher the acid content the lower the pH reading. This means EC and pH move in opposite directions.

Like you, plants enjoy drinking during their meal. The chances of you providing the exact ratio they want, first time out, is pretty slim. Odds are overwhelming that you're over or under feeding.

If you drink more than you eat (too much food), there's a greater amount of food in a lesser amount of water. Greater amounts of food mean greater acidity or, lower pH. Therefore- EC up, pH down is too rich.

Eat more than you drink (I'm starvin' here) and there's less food in more water. Less food means less acid or, higher pH. Therefore- EC down, pH up is too lean.

If you read and chart EC and pH daily you'll see one of the above patterns. If you move through the pH range in a day, that's too fast. Thats burning or deprivation. By adjusting the nute:water ratio, you can slow the swing down to your timetable.

(insert curtsie smilie here...)

 

[swarrrm]

Thanks everyone for your input, like I said earlier it's my first attempt at hydro and I'm still learning, I kind of expected to make a few newbie mistakes. (I've grown in soil successfully a couple times)
I already cut out the FloraMicro (dgtm I'm pretty sure that's the problem at this point, I was told by someone who was obviously unreliable that I should supplement with trace elements with FloraNova) Thanks a lot freezer for putting some time into my thread, definitely some good info.

 

[budshoteyes]

Strange cal/mag hasn't been mentioned?