Does anyone use Blue bulbs throughout?

[prune]

There may also be a generational aspect to it as well. High CBD and low THC seed taken from weed grown in England were planted in No. Africa and had a marked increase in THC and a decrease in CBD. In contrast, seed taken from the highlands of Mexico and planted in Mississippi showed a reversal of high THC and low CBD production. Subsequent generations showed an even more of a separation between the two. As an aside, I would be more than interested to hear what some would have to say about seed grown from plants grown with UVB irradiation.

Ya, uh, that's the same information i read back in the 70's, and is as outdated as the bell-bottom jeans i was wearing at the time. You just can't quote studies without analysis and expect us not to read them.

I also object to your calling on "forum consensus" as some great proof of your argument, most forum consensus i see is just the mindless repeating of legend & rote learned just the year before. Growing pot does not attract great minds and [by definition] the few it does rarely post...

 

[MIway]

can you backup this statement? or with other words.. what do you mean by "fills the PAR curve"?

Why certainly... PAR = Photo Active Radiation, i.e., what the plants utilize to photosynthesize... it's the curve on the following spectral graphs... the "goal" is to fill the curve with measured radiation.


Hortilux Metal Halide



Hortilux Super HPS



Hortilux BLUE




The BLUE "fills the curve" better than any other bulb that I have seen measured.

And I've grown with them, so there is that too... and for the record, that lack of spike in the orange range really makes a difference for nug stacking... just not as tight as the Super HPS.

 

[messn'n'gommin']

Ya, uh, that's the same information i read back in the 70's, and is as outdated as the bell-bottom jeans i was wearing at the time.

Outdated does not mean wrong. Besides, what studies have since been published that contradicts them?

You just can't quote studies without analysis and expect us not to read them.

lol...That's why I posted the links...so you would read them! Even then, I knew that some wouldn't.

I also object to your calling on "forum consensus" as some great proof of your argument, most forum consensus i see is just the mindless repeating of legend & rote learned just the year before.

I believe that is from an earlier post in reference to a "general consensus" of using mostly BL in flower and has little to do with any of my last post.

Growing pot does not attract great minds and [by definition] the few it does rarely post...

You mean great minds like Machulum (sp), Elsohly, Pate, etc? Then, post away!

Otherwise, you are just looking for evidence to support your claims rather than following the evidence where it leads.

In any case, attacking someone's character does not refute the studies. Please, post what evidence you have to the contrary. I am more than willing to change my mind...if you can support your opinion with something more than, "Because I said so!"

Time to put up or shut up, old pal!

 

[IwannatokeNbone]

Why certainly... PAR = Photo Active Radiation, i.e., what the plants utilize to photosynthesize... it's the curve on the following spectral graphs... the "goal" is to fill the curve with measured radiation.


Hortilux Metal Halide



Hortilux Super HPS



Hortilux BLUE




The BLUE "fills the curve" better than any other bulb that I have seen measured.

And I've grown with them, so there is that too... and for the record, that lack of spike in the orange range really makes a difference for nug stacking... just not as tight as the Super HPS.

that is an impressive bulb, the cmh chart looks quite similuar also. so were on say a 2000k-2100k standard hps is the spike? orange red? or is it still yellow

 

[Phaeton]

So that orange spike at the edge of green that I have always hated packs the nuggets tight huh? That does seen to be fairly unanimous among non-haters. You do know that spike kills leaves don't you?
After six years of boycotting HPS and using all red HID I put a small budroom back in operation using an HPS supplemented with twice the wattage of blue. I's still a hater, but more and tighter buds is persuasive. 800 watts of T5 sidelight blending from 6400K all the way to 420 nm actinic with a 400 watt HPS hanging in the middle. I could see leaves in pain, wishing they were already dead, and its only day 2. These leaves have but weeks left out of the months necessary for the finish. My heart is sad. Not too sad to order 100 watts of Zilla 10 UVB lights to go in the corners. This IS a test room.

 

[Phaeton]

The blue light tests are done. Not the way I am going to go. The test room is now a regular small budroom. 2 x 400w CMH in a siamesed twin reflector and 4 x 216w 6500K T5's in a surround, making the available canopy area 48" x 48". It is not producing HPS buds but all that full spectrum makes for some extremely healthy plants. Long ways to go but looks good.

The HPS all went into the big budroom. 3 x 400w HPS, 2 x 400w CMH, 2 x 400w HID, and 3 x 128w T8 fixtures - 5000K. All that full spectrum and blue/green mostly full spectrum and still the leaves on the indica dominate are turning yellow. This is not happening to the sativa's next pot over.
The T8's came from the veg room, hung them vertical next to the HPS trying to help. The plants are getting bigger faster but the indica didn't stop going yellow. I upped the nitrogen, just in case.

So back to the topic, blue light grew too slow unless major amount of red were added. Light is no longer blue at that point so Full Spectrum trumps blue totally, HPS alone is a personal choice over blue dominate, sick plants, huge buds vs. slower growth but healthier plants.

The obvious choice to me turned out opposite the obvious choice to others, we all get high.

 

[FreedomGrower]

hmmm I wonder if I cut out the blue for the last 3 weeks; How would it will affect the THC & Flower development;

 

[Phaeton]

Usable blue from HPS is negligible, and several growers use MH which is blue/yellow dominate with their HPS. If I remember the threads correctly shutting off the HPS and using MH to finish the buds made more frost.

I would like to hear from anyone who has done it both ways or just specifics from swapping lights the last few weeks.

I use all three types of discharge lights and want to use them most effectively but cannot afford any more testing. If some tests don't fail then the parameters are too timid.
I just lost 12 ounces from violet light stress and need to finish a for sure harvest now. :kitty:

 

[sso]

did notice higher potency and crystal count with fluos, even 2700k.

did not notice that with a 400w mh with the safety glass (blocks most uv)

so im forced to conclude its the uv, not the blue, but every fluo gives off some uv.

 

[Phaeton]

My small budroom has been a 'blue' room for awhile now, CMH and T5, 216 watts of which are 420 nm actinic, so yeah, its blue.




I turned off the CMH's, this is T5 light on a sativa bud.





This is the bud hiding behind the spiral in above picture.


Sidelights make a lot of greenery.


This is week 6 out of 10-1/2. They are due to be dropped down a foot, but not today. :kitty:

 

[budlover123]

I made a sweet LED light for a friend that he's using with a 250 watt HPS and getting great results in veg, he uses them in flower too, his plants are always really sticky

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=201179

hmmm I wonder if I cut out the blue for the last 3 weeks; How would it will affect the THC & Flower developmen

what have you heard? or are you just kicking that idea around. I was wondering if my friend would benefit from turning the blue light off an hour before lights off, I heard someone here mention that far red light in the last hour of growing helps for some reason, it doesn't seem like simply cutting out the blue would do anything though, IMO, in either case. Less light, you know.

 

[sx646522]

I made a sweet LED light for a friend that he's using with a 250 watt HPS and getting great results in veg, he uses them in flower too, his plants are always really sticky

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=201179

Nice work on the supplemental LED lighting, OG! Kudos also for going with neutral whites - their efficiency has gotten better (closer to cool white) over the past couple of years, and their relative SPD is more useful overall, whilst still retaining a solid blue component:

(Example is from a neutral white Luxeon Rebel which I already had in my album (close enough); too lazy to upload the particular Cree you used from my files )

Question: are you using the stock XR-E/XP-G angles here (i.e. 100 degrees for the Royal Blue, and 125 degrees for the Whites), or are you somehow concentrating the angles further?

I was wondering if my friend would benefit from turning the blue light off an hour before lights off, I heard someone here mention that far red light in the last hour of growing helps for some reason, it doesn't seem like simply cutting out the blue would do anything though, IMO, in either case. Less light, you know.

Leave 'em on. The amount of blue you have is good! Besides, you've got way more far-red than you need out of that HPS already. Changing the level of blue present won't affect far-red mediated plant responses much.

A little blue goes a long way; one typically maxes out its benefits (for photosynthesis et. al.) around 8-10% of your total spectral output. However, its absence (and effects on phytomorphology, stomatal opening, etc.) will certainly be noticeable.

Also, I'd avoid using green LEDs if I were you, and simply incorporate more neutral (or cool) whites if you really want to increase your green component. They are markedly more efficient than the greens currently on the market, and provide more usable light along the entire electron transport chain spectrum the thylakoids act upon.

Though with that HPS in there, it'd just be overkill. Plenty of green in that HPS already. Where whites come in handy (nay: are in fact near essential) with additional green are in LED-only plant lighting scenarios, not as supplemental lighting.

Cheers,

-SX

 

[Phaeton]

I heard a half hour of far red only after the other lights go out will reduce stretch and fool the plant into thinking the darkness is an hour longer. I tried it for 6 weeks and any results were not visible to me in that time.

I tried the blue overkill with the HPS lights, 2:1 HPS/blue aquarium HID's grew much slower than 1:1 HPS/full spectrum HID.

The blue HID's do work really well slowing stretch in sativa clone/veg. Just as healthy as MH, better health than HPS, but much less tall than either. Trying them on indica now just to see, too short I suspect, but only been a week.

The original post with blue LED's stuck around the HPS prompted my first blue HID purchase, I make a lot of changes based on lurking and do not usually acknowledge them unless clarification is needed.

I do occasional "thanks to everybody" posts, but some days I read for 3 or 4 hours and cannot publicly thank all the poster's for all their advice and experience.

:kitty:

 

[budlover123]

...Though with that HPS in there, it'd just be overkill. Plenty of green in that HPS already. Where whites come in handy (nay: are in fact near essential) with additional green are in LED-only plant lighting scenarios, not as supplemental lighting...

I agree, the whites are more there to balance the blue lights out as the HPS is on a 15 minute delay/ overheat shutoff box from C.A.P. and if the HPS goes out because of a power outage or overheating I don't want the plant to receive nothing but blue, that's mainly why the whites are there.

I heard a half hour of far red only after the other lights go out will reduce stretch and fool the plant into thinking the darkness is an hour longer. I tried it for 6 weeks and any results were not visible to me in that time...

I was hoping somebody would test that out, nothing huh? Did you use far-red LEDs or halogens or something?

 

[Phaeton]

I've been growing the same clone for years, makes some comparisons easy.
I used 2 halogen work lights, 300 watts each, overlapping high and centered, giving even light over the canopy. 6 HID's were circled around. After 6 weeks the plants were the same heights they have always been, and I grow in rotation so the light covered the first middle and last 6 weeks of 3 grows.
There may have been a difference just like the books say, but the way I work it: if I cannot tell by looking or tasting that something helped then it is not worth extra work.

OGmolton: Your nothing but blue comment, I did that for a few weeks by accident, blue and yellow actually, but no red. The plants quit growing them hermied when red came back in. Ouch.

 

[FliP]

your gonna have to excuse me as i skimmed pretty quick through these posts.

I highly recommend the Blues for veg, but with its crazy color chart always been curious to its use in flower. it had a much fuller spectrum than an HPS.

But to my point... im surprise no one mentioned dual arc bulbs. theres a few companies that make an HPS and MH in one bulb

im really interested in these and hope i can find some source thats tested just HPS, just MH, HPS and MH, the BLue, and then dual arcs to see what the growth differences were

 

[Phaeton]

FliP:
I tested most of the lights you mention, except I used Phillips 4000K CMH instead of Hortilux Blue, same output.
I did not do the normal watt for watt test, HPS always wins those. Of course it is 56,000 lumens of HPS against 36,400 lumens of HID, less than double the light but still a whole lot more.
I tested 72,800 lumens (800 watts) CMH versus 60,200 lumens (430 watts) HPS, biased a bit the other way but not as lopsided as most tests.

I just finished harvesting the CMH tray and I am impressed. The yields are within 5% of each other. Yes, the HPS still had the larger buds, but not by much. BUT, the buds were ripe a full week earlier with CMH.
I feel they trimmed easier also, but that may be technique as others did not notice that.
Any difference in quality is minor, I like the CMH better but that may be my expectation rather than genuine quality increase.

I have used MH and HPS together and the results were so close to identical I cannot endorse the price of dual arc bulbs.
MH alone grew smaller buds because the entire plant grew slower, quality was neither better nor worse, just less.

All the above is on a sativa. I am on my second grow with an indica and so far very little works on both, in fact I almost killed my first indica clone tray with sativa light. I now have separate veg lights for the indica.
:kitty: