Water Cooled Growers Unite!

[budleydoright]

Holy crap, you're not kidding about corrosion, I had to replace all my end plates after they corroded very badly, ....
Those are actually 1000's(2mh&2hps) in there at the moment. Cooling is adequate, water gets into the 90's in summer when it's as warm outdoors, but it still removes enough heat, in winter I make use of the heat which is a perk. I thought about adding a chiller, just trying to conserve power, maybe at some point.

Wow 4k w/o a chiller. that's amazing.
did best coast do anything for you or did you have to purchase them?
90 isnt bad at all with these fixtures as long as your pump is rated for the heat.

I have been toying with the idea of making a water cooled AC. I could replace the hot coil with a liquid exchanger. then i could run my window shaker indoors and store the heat in a barrel. It too would work well with 90f. even if it took a few hundred gallons. I could heat a hot tub with it!

 

[poindexterous]

Wow 4k w/o a chiller. that's amazing.
did best coast do anything for you or did you have to purchase them?
90 isnt bad at all with these fixtures as long as your pump is rated for the heat.

I have been toying with the idea of making a water cooled AC. I could replace the hot coil with a liquid exchanger. then i could run my window shaker indoors and store the heat in a barrel. It too would work well with 90f. even if it took a few hundred gallons. I could heat a hot tub with it!

Best Coast replaces the corroded ends for $50 each instead of the $75 website price, better than nothing I guess.

The big radiators they sell for outdoor wood furnaces transfer a lot of heat, mine's 24" square by 4" thick, got it on eBay, they sell all different sizes. The efficiency of it was my goal as 4K is enough juice as it is, the water pump uses 1.5 amps and the radiator fan 1 amp so 2.5 amp is pretty good to cool 4K.

Of course water cooled lights don't help to remove any humidity so I still run a small AC for that, which I'd love to convert to water cooled as you mention to get that noisy thing out of my window, it looks odd to have an AC running when it's 50 degrees outside. I looked into those split AC systems, amazing how expensive they are. Guess one could take a window ac and bend the evaporator coil out into a water bath to cool it, but your way would be way cleaner, can you just buy the equipment to recharge freon or do you need some kind of HVAC license? They sell water cooled AC's like KwiKool's but like split AC's they cost a fortune.

 

[budleydoright]

Best Coast replaces the corroded ends for $50 each instead of the $75 website price, better than nothing I guess.

The big radiators they sell for outdoor wood furnaces transfer a lot of heat, mine's 24" square by 4" thick, got it on eBay, they sell all different sizes. The efficiency of it was my goal as 4K is enough juice as it is, the water pump uses 1.5 amps and the radiator fan 1 amp so 2.5 amp is pretty good to cool 4K.

Of course water cooled lights don't help to remove any humidity so I still run a small AC for that, which I'd love to convert to water cooled as you mention to get that noisy thing out of my window, it looks odd to have an AC running when it's 50 degrees outside. I looked into those split AC systems, amazing how expensive they are. Guess one could take a window ac and bend the evaporator coil out into a water bath to cool it, but your way would be way cleaner, can you just buy the equipment to recharge freon or do you need some kind of HVAC license? They sell water cooled AC's like KwiKool's but like split AC's they cost a fortune.

It does require a license to buy r-22, I would bet you could find someone that would do the whole job for a 1-200.00. All of the new window units I've been looking at use r410 which I know nothing about.
I did the evaporator in the waterbath thing for a couple of years. Works very well except for the corrosion.

I could live with 90 degree water at the end of my light cycle. 2.5 amps to cool 4k is incredible.

 

[poindexterous]

It does require a license to buy r-22, I would bet you could find someone that would do the whole job for a 1-200.00. All of the new window units I've been looking at use r410 which I know nothing about.
I did the evaporator in the waterbath thing for a couple of years. Works very well except for the corrosion.

I could live with 90 degree water at the end of my light cycle. 2.5 amps to cool 4k is incredible.

Oops I said evaporator when I meant condenser. I'd like to make my AC water cooled also. So you were thinking of replacing your AC's condenser with a water to water heat exchanger thus making it water cooled? Do post it if you do. At several thousand bucks for a water cooled AC I'm also tempted to rig one up.

 

[budleydoright]

I can only refer to them as the hot and cold sides! I confuse myself to no end with things like this.
So I would replace the hot coil with a direct to water exchanger. The exact same one that I used on my chiller. then your window shacker or portable AC unit would transfer the heat to water which may be useful. I have a marine grade coil that you can run salt water through. could displace the heat to a hot tub, pool, or just a couple hundred gallons of water. while it wouldn't be as effecient it will still operate properly with hot water just as they continue to operate in hot air.

 

[watercooled@]

.... They sell water cooled AC's like KwiKool's but like split AC's they cost a fortune.

KwikKool markets to the Hydroponic market and Cannabis grower. Check other options for water cooled AC's and you'll be happy with the price. Here is one:
http://www.miamihp.com/

They also sell water cooled air handlers.

Because of my username, I'll confirm I am not affiliated with them in any way, and simply are a company I've bought a unit from in the past. - The best thing is, no A/C guy needed. Google instructions for the thermostat (or call them, they are helpful in customer service). Hook up the electric... water in and out pipes and turn it on!

*edit*
Also, I've used webasto FCF series of watercooled AC's. I found 18k BTU units for $550 shipped on ebay once. Bought two of them! The Webasto's are marketed as marince Air conditioners. They too need to be watercooled and typically just use the ocean water to get cooled.

 

[budleydoright]

*edit*
Also, I've used webasto FCF series of watercooled AC's. I found 18k BTU units for $550 shipped on ebay once. Bought two of them! The Webasto's are marketed as marince Air conditioners. They too need to be watercooled and typically just use the ocean water to get cooled.

Those are slick! I have an extra cupro nickle exchanger rated at 6kbtu. to build an extra chiller. I think I'll build myself a watercooled AC. I imagine 200 gallons of water could absorb the heat and maintain a 90-110 degree range. At least that has been my experience with my lamps.

Man you sure got a hell of a deal on those, new they're close to 2k. I'll be able to put together a 6kbtu unit with out the heat option for around 250. the coaxial exchanger is about 100 bucks wholesale in cupro nickle and about 60 in copper. i have one of each.

 

[poindexterous]

KwikKool markets to the Hydroponic market and Cannabis grower. Check other options for water cooled AC's and you'll be happy with the price. Here is one:
http://www.miamihp.com/

They also sell water cooled air handlers.

Because of my username, I'll confirm I am not affiliated with them in any way, and simply are a company I've bought a unit from in the past. - The best thing is, no A/C guy needed. Google instructions for the thermostat (or call them, they are helpful in customer service). Hook up the electric... water in and out pipes and turn it on!

*edit*
Also, I've used webasto FCF series of watercooled AC's. I found 18k BTU units for $550 shipped on ebay once. Bought two of them! The Webasto's are marketed as marince Air conditioners. They too need to be watercooled and typically just use the ocean water to get cooled.

Very interesting watercooled@,

So water cooled AC's are common for marine use it seems. Searching eBay for "marine air conditioner" brings up a bunch of them including the Webasto's. Gotta get one! Thanks!

 

[thefatman]

If you want top of the line water chillers look at the companies that make commercial chillers for use with marine water chilling such as reef aquariums.

http://www.universalmarine.com/

Myself I use two converted 1 Hp window air conditioners. Only one needs to be used at but the second is a redundant safety feature. The major difference between a good chiller and a cheap chiller is the use of expansion valves, refrigerant oil filters, moisture indicators, head control devices (outside units), compressor heating elements (outside units) and good heat exchangers. The better marine systems use titanium tubing in their heat exchangers. The heat exchanger is inside and the chiller is outside. The compressor also has a heating element on it so that it can be used at all temperatures. The extractor fan is a PSC (permanent split capacitor motor) so that a head pressure controller can be used to turn off the extractor fan or to run it at a reduced speed when it is cold outside (yes they even have soft start built in).

All the parts and pieces to convert a cheap window air conditioner or cheap split AC unit to a commercial quality chiller can be bought ion eBay except the heat exchanger. These units can be used down to a bit over 40 degrees below F. Yes even most split AC units are cheaply produced without expansion valves (http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=Mc...witches&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313), refrigerant filters (http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=re...+valves&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313) and moisture indicators (http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_kw=moisture&_kw=indicators). They definitely do not have PSC motors and head pressure control devices (http://cgi.ebay.com/ICM-325HN-HEAD-...24?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3369aaa5580 and therefore can not be used at cold temps.

The titanium heat exchangers are available at the link provided above. However , a home made heat exchanger can be made with copper tubing rather than titanium as your not building units for use with salt water. For flow no flow devices buy quality units on eBay made for boiler feed water (http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=Mc...witches&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313) rather than the bullshit plastic ones sold for the use of hobbyists. Boiler flow valves are of high quality as if a boiler runs out of water internally it is a very dangerous and expensive to repair problem. There is really no sense behind buying a chiller that must be used inside your home/shop/warehouse as you are just moving the heat to a different room not moving it outside. To avoidthe problem with the aluminum end plates of the Fresco water cooled light units simply add the silica type additives (designed for cars with aluminum engine parts or aluminum heater cores etc.) that are added to automotive radiator coolants. They leave a thin deposit on the aluminum surfaces. The problem is not so much that there is aluminum present or the coolant pH but that their are dissimilar metals in the cooling system.

 

[poindexterous]

Hey Fatman! I've read many of your very informative posts on other forums before I settled here at IC, and was always baffled as to why you were often banned when offering some of the most competent and helpful information? Well it's good to see you alive and well here at IC!

 

[budleydoright]

Nice tip on the flow switch. I bought one from liquid lumens and it sucks. Will defenately try the silica additive. Good information thanks.


Mind to share what your chiller conversions are like?

 

[poindexterous]

Hmmm...I've been thinking more about coolant system corrosion ever since I ruined my Fresca end plates. In perspective the copper radiator and aluminum plates were a bad combo. In the new Fresca plates water shouldn't touch the aluminum at all but still I'd like to use a corrosion inhibitor.

I was afraid to use the automotive stuff as I assumed it would be cloudy and not clear for the sake of the lights? Is the silica stuff clear?

For lack of a better idea so far I've been adding a 4in1 pool treatment "clarifier, sequestrant, flocculent, chelating agent" which is supposed to protect pool surfaces and pumps etc, but I'm not really sure if it's the best thing? Also been keeping water at pool specs: hardness 250ppm, alkalinity 80ppm, pH 7.5

My coolant water is passing through a lot of expensive stuff, Fresca's, CO2Gen, radiator, pump, etc, so I'd like to be sure it's all protected.

Hope to hear more on this topic...

 

[budleydoright]

I'm interested in this as well.

I don't feel good about sending bestcoast anymore of my money. While I like my Fresca's. I think they should do better on the issue with them. While mine were under warranty they said not to worry about it (the powder coat), and that they are fine that way. Now they're not and they want 100 bucks a fixture to make it whole.

I wonder where one could buy those O rings, a hydraulic supply?

 

[highonmt]

@watercooled,

That is a really cool idea using water cooled ac units. I am thinking a water to air exhangers outside, an inline pump, and a few of these inside. easy install with just water/glycol lines to run. During winter we could just have valving that switched to another set of water to air exhangers on the inside. or instead of exhangers outside just a coil in a pond...hmm.

Webasto diesel heaters are really well made and great if you sleep in your rig, so I assume the ac's are well made as well...and they are a hell of a lot cheaper per btu than split ac's. thanks bro.

edit...what is the max water temp that a guy can get away with running through these water cooled ac units?

 

[poindexterous]

Hey BD, yeah the fresca's are still a work in progress and need improvement, IMO. While the single gasket end plate design eliminates the exposed metal of the dual gasket design, the nipple to gasket transition is shaky and a step backwards. The new uni-gasket has a very fragile integrated nipple with a barely over 1/4" orifice, they include a little brass insert to keep it from collapsing when the brass hose fitting is tightened but then you're counting on a brass to brass seal to be water tight, and if that fails you're right back to the aluminum corroding. I'd rather see the entire ends just be solid plastic, I was gonna make my own ends instead of buying the replacements but didn't have the time to deal with it.

 

[poindexterous]

edit...what is the max water temp that a guy can get away with running through these water cooled ac units?

I had the very same question...

 

[budleydoright]

@watercooled,

edit...what is the max water temp that a guy can get away with running through these water cooled ac units?

I read that they have a range up to 110 and they are optimized for a 95f. This does of course effect the effeciency.

 

[highonmt]

I read that they have a range up to 110 and they are optimized for a 95f. This does of course effect the effeciency.

No kidding...that seems high for a marine ac. I figure we would be able to cool glycol to close to ambient temps using heat exchangers and a large reservoir. so this may just be an option for us. How much more efficient is a water cooled ac compared to a regular split system? I am just guessing but it seems like it would comparable with a lower startup cost. plus having a closed heat exhanger loop when temps are cold would be darn near free to run since it would just be running a few fans. Any hvac guys out there think this will drop our power consumption over regular spit ac system....imagine a 100k watt ware house sealed with vented hoods and water cooled co2 genys....hm

 

[budleydoright]

From Kwikool:

WATER FLOW DATA
Flow Regulation Valve AUTOMATIC
Inlet Water 85F-95F Exit(GPM) 3
Inlet Water 75F-95F Exit(GPM) 1.5
Inlet Water 65F-95F Exit(GPM) 1
Inlet Water 55F-95F Exit(GPM) 0.75

I can't remember the site were I read 95 degrees was optimum. But I believe the same is true for the hot side of your AC, that it performs best at 95 degrees. I'm not sure what the air temp would need to be to acheive this. But with water the condensor would be operating at the same temp as the water.

 

[poindexterous]

I was just looking at that same info. Two other makers of water cooled portable AC's rate theirs at 85f intake water. Makes sense I guess, outdoor air would be 80 to 100 on most days one would run a regular air cooled AC also.