Calling all RDWC & Undercurrent Pros

[Cameltoejoe]

Re: Calling all RDWC & Undercurrent Pros

I have been running an Undercurrent DIY for over a year.. You really really have to over do it with air to get the ph to start acting up.

My rez runs warm with no chiller but the h202 keeps it clean.

I also top feed.

 

[Shafto]

I notice in the middle of the rootball at the bottom it is indented upward, and then some roots kind of dangle down around the sides.

This is the same "doughnut hole" effect I saw when I was using air, except mine was even a bit more prominent. It's not only the root bounding the air causes, but also the vibration and turbulence from the air that the roots don't seem to like.

I bet if you disconnect air from 1 bucket for a few hours, you'll notice increased water and nute uptake, actually, I'd bet the farm on it, I know you would, cause those roots look almost identical to what mine looked like.

There's no need to run an air pump, and I think you're actually better off without one. I don't understand why everyone seems to run one. just recirculate the water 24/7 at a decent rate. Never need air that way, and if you don't believe me, just look at Heath Robinson or Billy Liar.

Just trying to help some folk out, wish I never bothered with the air pump in the first place.

 

[Scrogerman]

LOL, Fk heath robinson & billy liar(sorry lads lol), my tote DWC couldnt do without an airpump bro, ive had my 70l tote res overflowing with roots before now lol(2-4 plants), simply circulation couldnt provide anywhere near the kind of aerobic environment in my root masses, just wouldnt penetrate at all. for me it would be fatal without doubt!
not all dwc/hydro is the same animal.

 

[Scrogerman]

Ok, when you say bubblecloning is that in the ez clone type aero machine or where you take mini net baskets with some hydroton and put in tray with airstone running 24/7?

I actually did this several years ago and did have good results

but if your referring to ez cloners or aerocloners thats what I am using and their motors heat the water up past the sweet spot and they slime out, some people have put frozen water bottles in them to cool them down, i went nuts and put small chillers on em that get the water right to the temp you want, I do pretty well withem but should be getting 100 percent jumping through a thousand dollar rig.
but anyway i have been edging the digital on the chiller up to around 72 on the run I am doing now and we will see, but i also know if you don't really clean em between runs they will slime out your next run real easy.

No i mean bubbler DWC/SWC style, but with aquarium heater, airpump n stones. low EC nutes 0.4 approx, aquarium heater temp set to 83-85f for rooting(only). No net pots, just pucks or foam to hold cuts in place. Roots come fast(say 7 - 10 days+), its cheap to build one & 100% effective.

i got a thread link here, its a good one:https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=26473
(i submerge my stems 10-15mm, & never failed)


EZ cloner, is aerocloning as you know as youve got one. slightly different, but great i believe, with the right temps.

 

[thefalsediviner]

It's about time, for a decent thread on DWC, awesome. I've been running standard 5gal bubblers, with 3.5 or 6 inch net pots, for a while now. I use the GH Bluestone pump one for every four bubblers. I get the root cupping exactly like pictured above. I haven't taken a pH measurement in over a year so I can't chime in on pH drift. However, I believe that weekly change outs, H2O2 every third day and a simple nutrient program like maxibloom @ Lucas can work with out the pH meter, given an acceptable water source. On the other hand I should be checking my water numbers every six months as I am on a deep water well an thing can change, I'll do that today. Aside from the rare week specimen simple bubblers are working great for me.

If any one is interested I will share my method for achieving biodiversity in a DWC without spending a shitload of money. This is how I get that organic taste without being a Prius driving ass-hat.

TFD

 

[Scrogerman]

tell us more on your biohydro TFD bro. i for one am interested in everyones methods.

Biodiversity using H2o2 every 3 days? mmmm now you got me thinking.? ah you run both chem/organic bubbler rigs?

 

[Hydrosun]

Another point that I want to explore is size of the bucket top, i started out using huge tops that took a ton of hydroton, don't remember the exact size , but I started to see know correlation to root ball in bucket and amount of hydroton so I went to six inchers and save alot of money and time on the rock cleaning end.

any thoughts on this?

There is a nice 6", 8", 10" thread.

My thought is that I have gotten my fattest stalks and largest root mass using the 10" net pots. A 50L bag of hydroton normally will fill 7 10" net pots.

 

[Scrogerman]

Cool hydroS,
give us a link to the thread bro? What about reusing, a 50l bag would litterally last me years. My 4" nets end up pretty empty of hydroton by the end, thick stems just push it out as they get fat!

 

[MileHighGuy]

What size Feed line??

What size Feed line??

Great thread... I'm ready to learn more, I'm absolutely loving Hydro.

I like these airstones -

I'm rocking a DIY 9 Bucket RDWC like the tutorial on here...

The HPS is off right now until roots drop... I just put AeroCloned clones right into the hydroten.

Last round my reservoir was in the tent, and my controller was neglected, this time I put the reservoir outside the tent..

I have a question coming I promise...

I'm currently draining the buckets from the bottom with 3/4 inch tubing.

The feed line is 1/2 inch and then 1/4 lines tap into the feed line and go up to the top of the buckets...

I was considering getting a high powered pump and running the 1/2 inch tube for the WHOLE feed line and removing the 1/4" tubing completely...

Anyone do this? Would it be overkill?


I'm using GH FloraNova Bloom 8ml per gal for Lucas Formula with H2O2. I use silica blast as they start getting bigger and then hit them with powdered KoolBloom after they start showing buds.

Since using FloraNova, I haven't had to check PH at all, it's just been dead on at 5.9 - 6.2 everytime depending if I add Silica or not.


Anyone else using FloraNova??

Anyone running organic nutes only with success.... I'm scared to leave lucas because I work full time and this system has been no maintenance.

Just a few cola's

 

[thefalsediviner]

TFD's BioHydro Nute Regement for DWC

TFD's BioHydro Nute Regement for DWC

Why thank you Scrogerman, I'd be happy to share.

Lets start with my base nutrient, GH maxibloom @ lucas. It doesn't get any cheaper of simpler than Maxibloom @ lucas. 1tsp per gal h20.

I apply 3ml of 29% H2O2 per gal.(I'll get back to this)

Here come the Bio part. I have a very effecient DIY AACT (activily aerated compost tea) brewer. I'll add the picture later, as a picture is worth a thousand words.

When I brew my brew I use the following item at the included rate:

• I tsp of powdered seaweed extract per gal h20
• 1/8 cup of my own fresh from the bin EWC
• 1/8 cup of forest dirt from the root zone of an 80+ year old alder tree
• 10 ml black strap molasses per gal h20
• 10 ml per gal h20 of my own ferment blackstrap molasses (I'll get back to this)
• 10 ml kefir whey per gal h20

Fermented blackstrap molasses is 1:1, blackstrap molasses:kefir whey fermented for at least two week in a cool dark place.

I let this brew at least 48hrs and apply with the Maxibloom@lucas at the rate of 8oz per gal. I wait 24 hrs and apply the h2o2 with a dosing syringe directly in the full bubblers. In addition I use Koolbloom powder weeks 3-6 of flower at the recomended dose. Then I flush with the AACT, h2o2, and water for the finish. So far my strains are all 8-9 week finishers.

My buckets foam like the brewer the whole week and my roots develop a clear snot coating in the area of the most bubble from the air stone.

My harvest per bucket is up and my notoriously cat piss tasting strain is now taste smooth and piss free. I have also seen an improvement in the bud characteristics in all of my strains while being one cycle over on my bulb replacement schedule. I'm actually giddy about running with fresh bulbs now.

enjoy
tfd

 

[Scrogerman]

Thats cool TFD bro,
But as far as i know you cannot run h2o2 with organics, it just fks everything up, oxidises shit & kills bene's & fungi's.
A bio filter without h2o2 i was thinking maybe, but id never run h2o2 with organic hydro? Ill have a think about what youve said. cheers man!

after thought, No, AACT & H2o2 just dont mix, i cant see how they can, so im not sure the benefits really?

As for the maxibloom, ive been wanting to run that stuff for a while. Does it mix & dissolve totally, something ive wondered.? plenty of results & happy campers with the maxi

 

[Shafto]

LOL, Fk heath robinson & billy liar(sorry lads lol), my tote DWC couldnt do without an airpump bro, ive had my 70l tote res overflowing with roots before now lol(2-4 plants), simply circulation couldnt provide anywhere near the kind of aerobic environment in my root masses, just wouldnt penetrate at all. for me it would be fatal without doubt!
not all dwc/hydro is the same animal.

Do you have the same kind of results that Heath has achieved? I don't want to turn this into any kind of pissing match, but I seriously doubt you have. Why would you say something like fuck them? I don't get it.

Anyway, you obviously didn't have enough water circulation, because that's all you need. If Heath can grow a 76oz single plant tree in DWC with no air, I think we should all pay attention, don't you, Scrogerman?

I have seen it with my own eyes, deleting the air causes more water and nute uptake. As long as you have enough water circulation to replenish oxygen you're better off than with air. If you used a water pump that circulated the water in your tote every 2 or 3 minutes, then you'd need no air pump, guaranteed. Recirculating through the hydroton is great, because it really spreads the solution over a huge surface area, so it can all be recharged with oxygen by atmospheric pressure.

The surface area of your water in your tote is much smaller, so agitating with an air pump is much less efficient to get atmospheric pressure to recharge your solution with oxygen. You do know you get no oxygenation from the actual bubbles right? They have almost no pressure to push oxygen into the water.. it's all about the agitation that causes all of the solution to come into contact with the surface and the atmosphere. A water pump works better for this, I've done it both ways now, but if you wanna just say "FK you" to me as well, that's fine I guess, only trying to share what I've learned and help those who want it.

That 6" 8" 10" thread hydrosun mentioned is good. I was arguing that larger net pots would make no difference, but I was wrong and didn't quite understand why they help. After that thread I tried some myself to see what was up. Larger containers for hydroton work better indeed, especially if you recirculate through them, because you get different root growth in the hydroton, you get those nice fuzzy roots up top and the heavy drinkers down in the solution. Adding a bigger net pot gives more space for root mass overall. a 6" pot will actually constrict the root crown on a big plant too.

 

[Scrogerman]

lol, i was refering to specific DWC not heaths or billys rigs, there rigs obviously dont require the same aeration method. I certainly could not run my DWC totes on circulation alone, theres just too much root mass, where the airpump comes in. I wasnt dissing those guys, i was saying fk what they do for aeration, it wouldnt work for me. if had had the room id like to think i could give heath a run for his money, wouldnt we all. Luv all his growshows tbh.
ceratinly meant no offence to you shafto, if thats how you took it man.

as for the 76oz tree, i dont believe that anyway tbh. & yes ive seen all of his stuff! Wasnt that in a 'waterfarm' anyway?

Ill bet im upto 9-10ppms of DO in my tote anyway(68f) & you aint gonna get more than that under normal atmoshphere (at the temps we want), so its whatever gets there & works at the end of the day.(unless you pump a little h2o2 in there), nobody, heath or anyone will get more DO than 9-10ppms without the aid of h2o2, it cant be done as i understand & if you could it would nt be alot more, maybe a point. circulate all ya fkin like!

As i read your post, i see you got me totally wrong, i never wanted to say 'Fk you' to anybody, your taking shit outta context & i dont want no pishing match either lol! (sorry lads)- in brackets may have been a clue there? i even fkin rep'd you earlier if you look.

What your saying on the larger pots does make sense n1

lets move on shall we!

peace!

 

[thefalsediviner]

Thats cool TFD bro,
But as far as i know you cannot run h2o2 with organics, it just fks everything up, oxidises shit & kills bene's & fungi's.
A bio filter without h2o2 i was thinking maybe, but id never run h2o2 with organic hydro? Ill have a think about what youve said. cheers man!

after thought, No, AACT & H2o2 just dont mix, i cant see how they can, so im not sure the benefits really?

As for the maxibloom, ive been wanting to run that stuff for a while. Does it mix & dissolve totally, something ive wondered.? plenty of results & happy campers with the maxi

Scrogerman, thank you very much, that is exactly the response I was hoping for. Maxibloom rocks, I'd screen it if I was using drippers or sprayers

Here is my disclaimer:

I do my own thing with my medical grow. My only motive for posting is to share or ask questions. I have a really shitty medical condition that effects my ability to socilize, so if I seem like a dick don't take it on.

Ok, now I'm going to get on with flying my freak flag and explain my method furter. First, I think that organic is a overused term in hydro weed growing culture. The expense of it with all the additives and such at the hydro store is effing rediculous. Honestly I'm about my medication being as strong, tastey and healthy as posible. That noted I'm not going to say organic hydro again.

Alright, now lets get on with the h2o2 part of the equation. Fact, h2o2 does not kill benificial aerobic bacteria off if used at the proper dilution with the proper method. In fact, benificial aerobic bacteria produce h2o2 themselves as a method of defence against harmful anaerobic bacteria.

Another topic of contention is that as a hydro grower I have stoped thinking about what applies to soil building all together. I actually think a womans vagina may be a more appropreate line of comparison. Aside from temperature the environmental conditions that allow hotties to have healty cooter flora are the same as the conditions that provide a healthy deep water root environment. Additionally a cooter is at its best when the benificial aerobic bacteria produce an abundance h2o2 to defend against harmful anaerobic bacteria. Right now I run my Bubblers with enough benificial aerobic bacteria that my root masses at some point in the grow will get a clear snotty coating as noted before. I'm reasonably sure that this is the same symbiotic relationship of the bacteria and yeast that allow kefir grains to develope. When my root masses have this snot my plants are rolling end of story. I will post a picture next time this presents it's self.

About the kifer whey, if you do any reasearch on which probiotics are present in kefir and kefir whey you will understand the bennifit potitial as well as why fermented blackstrap molasses rocks.

I should also note that I spend jack shit at the hydro store and I am truely excited about the quality and quantity of the weed I'm growing now, more than ever. I'm doing alot of root pruning and defoliation in my mother plant program and the mums never stress. Additionally my root masses at harvest always smell like lettuce and my nutrient solution smells slightly like rootbeer.

I also enjoy the creatures in my rooms as well. At any given time I got tree frogs, lady bugs and praying mantis. As soon as this batch of mantis get bigger I'll re-introduce some lady bugs.

tfd

 

[thefalsediviner]

This is what I'm talking about when I say I prune and root prune my mums.



The root mass is already returning after 4 days, in a week it will be more evident.

Here are some of my critters.



peace
tfd

 

[Hack]

Great thread... I'm ready to learn more, I'm absolutely loving Hydro.

I like these airstones -

I'm rocking a DIY 9 Bucket RDWC like the tutorial on here...

The HPS is off right now until roots drop... I just put AeroCloned clones right into the hydroten.

Last round my reservoir was in the tent, and my controller was neglected, this time I put the reservoir outside the tent..

I have a question coming I promise...

I'm currently draining the buckets from the bottom with 3/4 inch tubing.

The feed line is 1/2 inch and then 1/4 lines tap into the feed line and go up to the top of the buckets...

I was considering getting a high powered pump and running the 1/2 inch tube for the WHOLE feed line and removing the 1/4" tubing completely...

Anyone do this? Would it be overkill?


I'm using GH FloraNova Bloom 8ml per gal for Lucas Formula with H2O2. I use silica blast as they start getting bigger and then hit them with powdered KoolBloom after they start showing buds.

Since using FloraNova, I haven't had to check PH at all, it's just been dead on at 5.9 - 6.2 everytime depending if I add Silica or not.


Anyone else using FloraNova??

Anyone running organic nutes only with success.... I'm scared to leave lucas because I work full time and this system has been no maintenance.

Just a few cola's

I have been using flora nova bloom for three years with good results, you really have to toss quarts or gallons many times back and forth to mix the setiment at the bottom.

I have also notices alot of setiment in the res and have read numerous times that it was not designed for dwc and does not dissolve properly.

shake the hell out of it and you should get good results.

 

[Hack]

lol, i was refering to specific DWC not heaths or billys rigs, there rigs obviously dont require the same aeration method. I certainly could not run my DWC totes on circulation alone, theres just too much root mass, where the airpump comes in. I wasnt dissing those guys, i was saying fk what they do for aeration, it wouldnt work for me. if had had the room id like to think i could give heath a run for his money, wouldnt we all. Luv all his growshows tbh.
ceratinly meant no offence to you shafto, if thats how you took it man.

as for the 76oz tree, i dont believe that anyway tbh. & yes ive seen all of his stuff! Wasnt that in a 'waterfarm' anyway?

Ill bet im upto 9-10ppms of DO in my tote anyway(68f) & you aint gonna get more than that under normal atmoshphere (at the temps we want), so its whatever gets there & works at the end of the day.(unless you pump a little h2o2 in there), nobody, heath or anyone will get more DO than 9-10ppms without the aid of h2o2, it cant be done as i understand & if you could it would nt be alot more, maybe a point. circulate all ya fkin like!

As i read your post, i see you got me totally wrong, i never wanted to say 'Fk you' to anybody, your taking shit outta context & i dont want no pishing match either lol! (sorry lads)- in brackets may have been a clue there? i even fkin rep'd you earlier if you look.

What your saying on the larger pots does make sense n1

lets move on shall we!

peace!

years ago there was a thread on overgrow that had two proponents one that you could blast the hell out of a res with oxygen and the do would get to all the buckets through recirculation.

the other argued not.

The thing is there were some really nice shows and very smart growers that showed their results.

this thread went on and on an on for 100 some pages. I was just started to get into dwc and I settled on air to each bucket.

I gues a good do meter could help prove or dissaprove these theory's.

I believe it depends on the setup..

I mentioned in earlier posts I have had some good looking runs with no air running while lights out, but recently every single dwc primer says run 24/7.

 

[Scrogerman]

Scrogerman, thank you very much, that is exactly the response I was hoping for. Maxibloom rocks, I'd screen it if I was using drippers or sprayers

Here is my disclaimer:

I do my own thing with my medical grow. My only motive for posting is to share or ask questions. I have a really shitty medical condition that effects my ability to socilize, so if I seem like a dick don't take it on.

Ok, now I'm going to get on with flying my freak flag and explain my method furter. First, I think that organic is a overused term in hydro weed growing culture. The expense of it with all the additives and such at the hydro store is effing rediculous. Honestly I'm about my medication being as strong, tastey and healthy as posible. That noted I'm not going to say organic hydro again.

Alright, now lets get on with the h2o2 part of the equation. Fact, h2o2 does not kill benificial aerobic bacteria off if used at the proper dilution with the proper method. In fact, benificial aerobic bacteria produce h2o2 themselves as a method of defence against harmful anaerobic bacteria.

Another topic of contention is that as a hydro grower I have stoped thinking about what applies to soil building all together. I actually think a womans vagina may be a more appropreate line of comparison. Aside from temperature the environmental conditions that allow hotties to have healty cooter flora are the same as the conditions that provide a healthy deep water root environment. Additionally a cooter is at its best when the benificial aerobic bacteria produce an abundance h2o2 to defend against harmful anaerobic bacteria. Right now I run my Bubblers with enough benificial aerobic bacteria that my root masses at some point in the grow will get a clear snotty coating as noted before. I'm reasonably sure that this is the same symbiotic relationship of the bacteria and yeast that allow kefir grains to develope. When my root masses have this snot my plants are rolling end of story. I will post a picture next time this presents it's self.

About the kifer whey, if you do any reasearch on which probiotics are present in kefir and kefir whey you will understand the bennifit potitial as well as why fermented blackstrap molasses rocks.

I should also note that I spend jack shit at the hydro store and I am truely excited about the quality and quantity of the weed I'm growing now, more than ever. I'm doing alot of root pruning and defoliation in my mother plant program and the mums never stress. Additionally my root masses at harvest always smell like lettuce and my nutrient solution smells slightly like rootbeer.

I also enjoy the creatures in my rooms as well. At any given time I got tree frogs, lady bugs and praying mantis. As soon as this batch of mantis get bigger I'll re-introduce some lady bugs.

tfd

Cool as man,
Thanks for the explination bro. can you tell us more on the parameters on using H2o2 with bene's? Ive been trying to find out at what level/ppm would/does h2o2 become harmfull to aerobes for ages. Have you evidence to back this up bro? What made you go this route? If it works, you might just get me to give it a go. n1

Ive never heard of kiefer whey, so ill have to look into that stuff.
With the maxibloom, it was the cost & growers like Evilme that got me interested in it in, cant wait to give it a try, id prolly go with some Koolbloom too, your roots sound v-happy.

any pictures of your grows knocking about around here man?

Thanks & G'Luck

 

[Scrogerman]

years ago there was a thread on overgrow that had two proponents one that you could blast the hell out of a res with oxygen and the do would get to all the buckets through recirculation.

the other argued not.

The thing is there were some really nice shows and very smart growers that showed their results.

this thread went on and on an on for 100 some pages. I was just started to get into dwc and I settled on air to each bucket.

I gues a good do meter could help prove or dissaprove these theory's.

I believe it depends on the setup..

I mentioned in earlier posts I have had some good looking runs with no air running while lights out, but recently every single dwc primer says run 24/7.

Hey man,
Yeah i remember OG bro,
With all the different grow rigs its a little hard to quantify DO as a set standard, cant be done really. too many variables.
If you have a rig that allows total free flow of solution without being impeaded by roots & it has the right flow then sure its gonna be viable, without a doubt. but it doesnt apply to static totes. certainly would depend on the size of the rig & what its supplying etc.

recent thread by SGT Sedenko(sp?) who went out & bought a DO meter, was pretty interesting. was showing how DO drops off & how long it takes at different temps etc. open tube just pipped it iirc, but i dont think it was done in a packed impeaded rootzone/res/bucket. results/graphs were interesting, see if i can post up the thread link. youve probebly seen similar tests done before?

aerobic- i run it 24/7 too.

Powerheads(only) i was looking at for a while, also inspired by OG, but they bring there own problems like heat, placement etc. saying that, there prolly better than they used to be, so may be worth another look sometime.

G'luck man!

 

[Scrogerman]

heres that O2/DO test thread: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=206119

https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=108414&d=1300842221 (or skip to results)

Interesting & relevent stuff, although the actual test were refering to, was not carried out iirc. But using ones head in correlation to the thread & sarg's results, would give us a good idea.

G'luck!