Twitter ignores marijuana policy questions at President Obama's "Twitter Townhall"

[dagnabit]

yes we can..
unless we cant?
maybe we can and we wont?
nope we cant.
but we could.
we just choose not to.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

...with an XO he could order his AG not to enforce MJ laws tomorrow.

Remember Monica Goodling? She's the former Justice Department staffer that was implicated in the firings of state AGs. If W had been implicated, it may have constituted executive crimes.

You don't understand the mechanism of appointing an AG and expecting them to uphold existing law. Presidents can't pull their AG's strings w/o ethics implications and AGs are supposed to run according to script, not decree.

Obama merely advised JD not to waste resources going after state-legal operations. Since then, individuals and states have tried to push that envelope in ways that get some of them pinched.

You argue so many facets (of everything under the sun) you no longer remember all the doves you float.

 

[dagnabit]

Remember Monica Goodling? She's the former Justice Department staffer that was implicated in the firings of state AGs. If W had been implicated, it may have constituted executive crimes.

You don't understand the mechanism of appointing an AG and expecting them to uphold existing law. Presidents can't pull their AG's strings w/o ethics implications and AGs are supposed to run according to script, not decree.

Obama merely advised JD not to waste resources going after state-legal operations. Since then, individuals and states have tried to push that envelope in ways that get some of them pinched.

You argue so many facets (of everything under the sun) you no longer remember all the doves you float.

you mean like he did with XO 13435 wherein he ordered his AG not to enforce bush era legislation concerning stem cells?

i know you like to think you are right but this time you are dead wrong about XOs and what scope they have in implementation..

shit he could end enforcement at the federal level with a damn signing statement...

LMAO @ facets..
only one. he can.
the rest of the "facets" are of your own devising.
only one facet. he can. he wont.

 

[Stranger]

two things:
1. The dea was created with the stroke of the pen (executive order) and could be dissolved as such.

2.Most importantly is this--- nothing about the drug war and prohibition have anything to do with drugs.

Any politician that can not grasps the million links to what ails us to the mechanisms and effects of the drug war is either too stupid to lead or is in on it.

I no longer accept the frame that is offered up and dumbed down to " its a few stoners wanting to get high"

If we change our words of engagement the answer becomes even more powerful.

Ask a politician:
Do you understand the scientific method?
Do you believe in the 4th amendment?
Do you believe in habius corpus?
What do you think about unreported revenues?
What about the 5th amendment?
Immigration?
Farm Subsidies?

Follow up answer with " Then why do you support the war on drugs?"


What does any of that have to do with the drug war?

EVERYTHING!

Call them out for the shallow cardboard unrepresentative ass-hats they are. Its not about getting high, only they say that... we should never ever agree to that BS.

Another great tactic I am finding that pisses them all off to no end is to relate a piss test to a financial statement...
I mean if we have to piss, at least you can show me a financial statement right Mr Pig/Politician?
You have nothing to hide ..right?

I need a bong hit....

back on topic...F*&^% Twitter and the company that owns them!

 

[dagnabit]

you cant convince a true believer that the messiah does not give a shit 'bout them.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

two things:
1. The dea was created with the stroke of the pen (executive order) and could be dissolved as such.

common misconception already addressed.

The Controlled Substances Act (CSA) was enacted into law by the Congress of the United States as Title II of the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970.[1] The CSA is the federal U.S. drug policy under which the manufacture, importation, possession, use and distribution of certain substances is regulated. The Act also served as the national implementing legislation for the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs.

The legislation created five Schedules (classifications), with varying qualifications for a substance to be included in each. Two federal agencies, the Drug Enforcement Administration and the Food and Drug Administration, determine which substances are added to or removed from the various schedules, though the statute passed by Congress created the initial listing, and Congress has sometimes scheduled other substances through legislation such as the Hillory J. Farias and Samantha Reid Date-Rape Prevention Act of 2000, which placed gamma hydroxybutyrate in Schedule I. Classification decisions are required to be made on criteria including potential for abuse (an undefined term),[2][3] currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States, and international treaties.

 

[dagnabit]

yes your wikki link was proven to be what wikki links typically are utter rubbish..
by several posters in a similar thread.
you admited in that thread you were wrong..
yet here you are touting it's veracity yet again...
soooo

The Drug Enforcement Administration was created by President Richard Nixon through an Executive Order in July 1973 in order to establish a single unified command to combat "an all-out global war on the drug menace." At its outset, DEA had 1,470 Special Agents and a budget of less than $75 million. Today, the DEA has nearly 5,000 Special Agents and a budget of $2.02 billion.

http://www.justice.gov/dea/history.htm

NOW, THEREFORE, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, including section 5317 of title 5 of the United States Code, as amended, it is hereby ordered as follows:

Section 1. The Attorney General, to the extent permitted by law, is authorized to coordinate all activities of executive branch departments and agencies which are directly related to the enforcement of laws respecting narcotics and dangerous drugs. Each department and agency of the Federal Government shall, upon request and to the extent permitted by law, assist the Attorney General in the performance of functions assigned to him pursuant to this order, and the Attorney General may, in carrying out those functions, utilize the services of any other agencies, Federal and State, as may be available and appropriate.

Sec. 2. Executive Order No. 11641 of January 28, 1972, is revoked and the Attorney General shall provide for the reassignment of the functions of the Office for Drug Abuse Law Enforcement and for the abolishment of that Office.

Sec. 3. Executive Order No. 11676 of July 27, 1972, is hereby revoked and the Attorney General shall provide for the reassignment of the functions of the Office of National Narcotics Intelligence and for the abolishment of that Office.

XO 11727..

this is the power of the executive.
the DEA,FEMA and DHS were all created by XO and are controlled by the chief executive.

your act is tired DB
i realize you are incapable of concession so just fade?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

yes your wikki link was proven to be what wikki links typically are utter rubbish..

it's as good as the footnotes provided. if you're judging wiki, you're judging a book by the conver.

by several posters in a similar thread.
you admited in that thread you were wrong..
yet here you are touting it's veracity yet again...
soooo

Would be nice if you didn't get so many thing mixed up.

http://www.justice.gov/dea/history.htm



XO 11727..

this is the power of the executive.
the DEA,FEMA and DHS were all created by XO and are controlled by the chief executive.

your act is tired DB

So is your idea the president tells the AG what to do.

The president can drive the train. Hell, he can play engineer. W/o congress along for the ride you might as well hand him the coal shovel, lol.

 

[dagnabit]

congress enforces nothing..

im not talking about repealing the CSA. thats your created argument.

the chief executive executes.

the chief exec. created the dea he instructs the AG it is in his power to end MJ arrests tomorrow.

you are grasping.

whats mixed up?
the exact same wikki link was debunked for the exact same claim..

fade man ffs have some dignity!!!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Rulemaking proceedings
Stages in rescheduling proceedings

Filing of Petition with DEA
Acceptance of Petition by DEA
Initial Review by DEA
Referral to HHS
Scientific and Medical Evaluation by HHS
HHS Report to DEA
Evaluation of Additional Information by DEA
Publication of DEA Decision
(Judicial review by the U.S. Court of Appeals)
(Public Hearing on Disputed Matters of Fact)

Hey dag, no mention of decree.

The United States Code, under Section 811 of Title 21,[15] sets out a process by which cannabis could be administratively transferred to a less-restrictive category or removed from Controlled Substances Act regulation altogether.

The Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) evaluates petitions to reschedule cannabis. However, the Controlled Substances Act gives the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), as successor agency of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, great power over rescheduling decisions.

After the DEA accepts the filing of a petition, the agency must request from the HHS Secretary "a scientific and medical evaluation, and his recommendations, as to whether such drug or other substance should be so controlled or removed as a controlled substance." The Secretary's findings on scientific and medical issues are binding on the DEA. The HHS Secretary can even unilaterally legalize cannabis: "f the Secretary recommends that a drug or other substance not be controlled, the Attorney General shall not control the drug or other substance." 21 U.S.C. § 811b.

Getting deep now. Looks like dag needs to sniff the HHS director.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

congress enforces nothing..

Oh yes, the laws congress passes are the laws were arguing about right here. The United States Code, under Section 811 of Title 21

im not talking about repealing the CSA. thats your created argument.

You argue so many aspects you don't even remember where you were. Oh yeah, the president is a dictator.

the chief executive executes.

W executed the whole damn economy.

the chief exec. created the dea he instructs the AG it is in his power to end MJ arrests tomorrow.

The United States Code, Section 811 of Title 21 (act of congress, signed by the prez.)

you are grasping.

The United States Code, Section 811 of Title 21

whats mixed up?

Apparently, more than you recognize.

the exact same wikki link was debunked for the exact same claim..

You debunk your own posts.

fade man ffs have some dignity!!!

Have some United States Code, Section 811 of Title 21.

 

[dagnabit]

sad..
last time DB

the CEO instructs the AG....(read this slowly)
the CEO could end arrests tomorrow by instructing the head law enforcement officer(AG)
or
he could simply executive order(decree is your lack of civics showing again?)eliminate the dea and place it's duties under a completely different agency with different prerogatives(as did many presidents with many agencies((the atf used to be called the bureau of prohibition))

seriously though why so obstinate concerning BHO's lack of action.
you made much more sense when you were saying he won't than he can't.
you know very well the power of XOs and signing statements,you have to remember some of the fucked up shit ol' bushie did with those secret weapons!!!!
they never get any press but the oft' times change entire structure and implementation of bureaucracies in our government.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

sad..
last time DB

the CEO instructs the AG....(read this slowly)
the CEO could end arrests tomorrow by instructing the head law enforcement officer(AG)

In your dreams

he could simply executive order(decree is your lack of civics showing again?)eliminate the dea and place it's duties under a completely different agency with different prerogatives

Uh, no. That would take an act of congress. The United States Code, Section 811 of Title 21 is an act of congress.

(as did many presidents with many agencies((the atf used to be called the bureau of prohibition))

along with an act of congress

seriously though why so obstinate concerning BHO's lack of action.

It's more to do with something you're lacking.

you made much more sense when you were saying he won't than he can't.

It's my opinion he won't Without an act of congress, he can't because of The United States Code, Section 811 of Title 21.

you know very well the power of XOs and signing statements,you have to remember some of the fucked up shit ol' bushie did with those secret weapons!!!!
they never get any press but the oft' times change entire structure and implementation of bureaucracies in our government.

I know I can read the statute and apparently, you uh.. choose not to.



The United States Code, Section 811 of Title 21

 

[dagnabit]

link to actual 811 21..

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/21cfr/21usc/812.htm

wherein did the csa create the dea again?

that is still your contention correct?
gotta get free from wikki?
since we re playing law..

(a) Rules and regulations of Attorney General; hearing
The Attorney General shall apply the provisions of this
subchapter to the controlled substances listed in the schedules
established by section 812 of this title and to any other drug or
other substance added to such schedules under this subchapter.
Except as provided in subsections (d) and (e) of this section, the
Attorney General may by rule -
(1) add to such a schedule or transfer between such schedules
any drug or other substance if he -
(A) finds that such drug or other substance has a potential
for abuse, and
(B) makes with respect to such drug or other substance the
findings prescribed by subsection (b) of section 812 of this
title for the schedule in which such drug is to be placed; or
(2) remove any drug or other substance from the schedules if he
finds that the drug or other substance does not meet the
requirements for inclusion in any schedule.

get you some 21 U.S.C. § 811 : US Code - Section 811: Authority and criteria for classification of substances
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/21/13/I/B/811

remove any drug?
the AG?!?!?!
who does the AG report to again?

but my point is not (and never was rescheduling)
it's simply for the executive to issue directives to his employees(in the form of XO) to stop enforcement.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

link to actual 811 21..

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/21cfr/21usc/812.htm

wherein did the csa create the dea again?

that is still your contention correct?
gotta get free from wikki?
since we re playing law..



get you some 21 U.S.C. § 811 : US Code - Section 811: Authority and criteria for classification of substances
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/21/13/I/B/811

remove any drug?
the AG?!?!?!
who does the AG report to again?

but my point is not (and never was rescheduling)
it's simply for the executive to issue directives to his employees(in the form of XO) to stop enforcement.

Well you can post a reference but your extraneous assertions are still BUNK. ASA appeals DEA, not the AG.

 

[dagnabit]

the referenced LAW says the AG CAN reclassify at discretion.
are you suggesting the reference is bunk

asa?
which thread is this?

the American softball association appealed to the twitter town hall?

what extraneous assertions?

the law clearly states the AG can
" remove any drug or other substance from the schedules if he
finds that the drug or other substance does not meet the
requirements for inclusion in any schedule."
do you dispute this?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

the referenced LAW says the AG CAN reclassify at discretion.
are you suggesting the reference is bunk

asa?
which thread is this?

the American softball association appealed to the twitter town hall?

what extraneous assertions?

the law clearly states the AG can
" remove any drug or other substance from the schedules if he
finds that the drug or other substance does not meet the
requirements for inclusion in any schedule."
do you dispute this?

Yep, and that has nothing to do with your suggestion the president can tell him tomorrow to stop busting pot smokers, lol.

The only way the AG would determine removal or reclassification is through the express direction of statute. You know, the DEA goes through the HSS director (and the HSS director can arbitrarily... but the AG can't.)

It's all in the statute. And you're starting to get on my nerves.

BTW the ASA is Americans for Safe Access, the organization that appealed the DEA's latest ruling, not the prez' and not the AG's.

 

[dagnabit]

cant do anything when you post the actual law and it gets called "bunk"
21 U.S.C. § 811 : US Code - Section 811
^^

try reading it

you annoy yourself i think

 

[dagnabit]

lmao the rest of your c&P

you knew this was there and edited it out?!?!?

The rescheduling process consists of the following stages:
Filing of Petition with DEA
Acceptance of Petition by DEA
Initial Review by DEA
Referral to HHS
Scientific and Medical Evaluation by HHS
HHS Report to DEA
Evaluation of Additional Information by DEA
Publication of DEA Decision
(Judicial Review by the US Court of Appeals)
(Public Hearing on Disputed Matters of Fact)

Title 21. Food and Drugs. Chapter 13. Drug Abuse Prevention and Control, Subchapter I, Control and Enforcement. Part B. Authority to Control; Standards and Schedules.

Sec. 811. Authority and criteria for classification of substances [summary]

Under 21 USC 811 the Attorney General has the authority to add to, remove from, or transfer controlled substances between the regulatory schedules established by the Controlled Substances Act. This process is known as a rulemaking procedure and may be initiated by the Attorney General, the Secretary of HHS, or on the petition of any interested party. (21 USC 811 (a))

At the initiation of scheduling proceedings the Attorney General gathers the necessary data and requests from the Secretary of HHS a scientific and medical evaluation of all the available evidence as well as a recommendation on the appropriate scheduling for the drug or substance in question. (21 USC 811 (b))

This evaluation will consider 8 specific factors in making findings to satisfy the criteria for scheduling established in Section 812 regarding accepted medical use, safety for use, abuse potential, and dependence liability. In other words the factors listed in 811(c) are to be used to evaluate the scientific record to assess the criteria established for each respective schedule of the CSA.

The only way the AG would determine removal or reclassification is through the express direction of statute. You know, the DEA goes through the HSS director (and the HSS director can arbitrarily... but the AG can't.)

dyslexic?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Marijuana, whether you like the idea of legalizing it or not, is a project. It requires an implementation, and the implementation is a lot like that of a software project. The US federal government is analogous to "The Company", and the states are analogous to "The Teams" that comprise the company. Some of them have free time; some do not. Some of them agree with the overall goal; some do not. And every single miniscule little detail has to be worked out, and written up, and voted on, and approved, and then specified, and implemented, and enforced.
http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2009/04/have-you-ever-legalized-marijuana.html

In other words, an act of congress. I hope everybody realizes every act of congress entails a president stroking it (with his pen, that is, lol.) That action, signing a name on the line doesn't constitute executive order. Otherwise, The United States Code, Section 811 of Title 21 would say EXECUTIVE ORDER

It's a sad day when one has to reference a blog to demonstrate dag's assumptions are wrong.

He argues so much he tends to wander the Ponderosa of possibilities so I'll reintroduce my initial premise. The president nor the AG can 'executive order' the process. The process involves written law and any changes will be made according. Unless they change the law first of course.... but that would take congress to go along with it.