passive plant killer

[delta9nxs]

1-2. g13 at 26". i'll flip this one on the 26th, not the 25th as previously stated. it should be at least 30" by then. i won't really know how fast the clones will grow until i try it, this is a seedling.

3. the back side showing training to the sides.

4. from left, kish x juicy fruit, the og nukush in the ppk, the purple nukush.

5. rene x nuken

all of the plants except the g13 are showing the effects of being in the clone containers too long but there was nothing i could do about it. all of them were/are severely root bound.

the og nukush and the rene x nuken were transplanted within this last week and i had to take a lot of the root balls off. they are coming around nicely though.

the kish x juicy fruit and the purple nukush will have to stay in the clone containers until i can determine sex.

i have multiple clones rooting of everything you see here.

with most of these i have only popped one seed each. the first nuken seedling has been an underachiever and is going to the compost pile. just a sad, pathetic looking little plant. i'll start another one tomorrow.

the jas bud has been a big disappointment. 10 beans and no germination, i threw them out today.

 

[Snook]

all of the plants except the g13 are showing the effects of being in the clone containers too long

all of them were/are severely root bound.

the og nukush and the rene x nuken were transplanted within this last week and i had to take a lot of the root balls off.
quote]

Thanks for the pics. I've heard of taking rootballs down when transplanting mothers. For bloomage, my thinking, from what I've read, is that a bigger rootball is desirable for harvest plants. Why cut it down? Logic?

 

[delta9nxs]

all of the plants except the g13 are showing the effects of being in the clone containers too long

all of them were/are severely root bound.

the og nukush and the rene x nuken were transplanted within this last week and i had to take a lot of the root balls off.
quote]

Thanks for the pics. I've heard of taking rootballs down when transplanting mothers. For bloomage, my thinking, from what I've read, is that a bigger rootball is desirable for harvest plants. Why cut it down? Logic?

hey, snook! i see you've got a snook as an avatar. i used to run around key west for a few years. i had several boats and worked in the water everyday. spearfished on the reef and in the back country. i miss the ocean and still have "diving" dreams.

what happens when the roots start spinning is that they keep going around and around weaving themselves into a tight mat that, when transplanted, more often than not, will not allow root ends to travel any further into the medium. you end up with a stunted plant.

the solution is to trim away the matted part of the roots. i pull and rub them off until i see root ends. i transplanted the og nukush on 6-16 and today there are roots showing at all the sidewall holes.

this is not something i normally allow to happen. with clones i have a "window of opportunity" in root development. either they get transplanted in this time frame or they get tossed. this way i get no shock or slowdown.

both of these plants slowed down noticeably after transplant.

 

[Snook]

hey, snook! i see you've got a snook as an avatar. i used to run around key west for a few years. i had several boats and worked in the water everyday. spearfished on the reef and in the back country. i miss the ocean and still have "diving" dreams.

New avitar, made my 50th post. YeeHaaa. I'm in key west in july for a 3 day wedding (not mine) may go to the dry tortugas.. snorkeling heaven. The gulf of mexico/atlantic water there is like clear glass. If there's not tropical storms.
I wish there were a chance of MMJ in Fla in my lifetime, there would be no better place to live. (Well, maybe Hawaii)

what happens when the roots start spinning is that they keep going around and around weaving themselves into a tight mat that, when transplanted, more often than not, will not allow root ends to travel any further into the medium. you end up with a stunted plant.

AAHA! I use smaller sterilite tubs for the 'veg' ppks, space limitations dictate so at transplant to PPK, I have been kinda wash them in the drained jacks+ (@1.6ec) and just 'fluffing' the roots, letting alot of the 'turface' fall away. They sputter a day or 3 then go. I did not notice (read) in the earlier parts of this thread (hallowed ground) where you went from nova to jacks while in early veg. I've cut the roots of clones, I dont use mothers, I'll give it a go.

the solution is to trim away the matted part of the roots. i pull and rub them off until i see root ends. i transplanted the og nukush on 6-16 and today there are roots showing at all the sidewall holes.

With scissors. turface, pretty much, goes?!

this is not something i normally allow to happen. with clones i have a "window of opportunity" in root development. either they get transplanted in this time frame or they get tossed. this way i get no shock or slowdown.

It's normal for me. shock/slowdown. but it's not bad. doubt I'll ever go to another way of doinit, PPK.


both of these plants slowed down noticeably after transplant.

See you in the ocean sometime. Thanks for all your help. G13 looks great.

By the way, do you have any idea how hard it is to get to 50 posts when growing passive in these things! I've lost intrest in alot of other aspects of growing> I cant argue about fertilizer any more, Ph is never an issue: actually it's gettin out of any thought at all, I used my Ph meter to test the ph of humidifier runnoff, first time in ?????? 5 months? I like straight coco.

 

[jjfoo]

I usually let my plants get a bit root bound. When I transplant I use a sharp scissors or a really sharp knife and kind of shave the root ball. They don't seem to be stressed. I've run plants in water culture side by side. I would massively root prune some and not others. I didn't observe any slow down of growth on the chopped ones. At the end of the observation I took some of the plants and removed lots of roots leaving a small root ball (more like an upside down tree structure due to no media) and they took right off in coco.


I find I can veg in way smaller containers this way for longer. Some times I'll even take a plant out of a pot, root prune it and repot it in the same container. It is amazing the abuse they can tolerate.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

(hallowed ground)

Changes lives.

 

[Snook]

I usually let my plants get a bit root bound. When I transplant I use a sharp scissors or a really sharp knife and kind of shave the root ball. They don't seem to be stressed. I've run plants in water culture side by side. I would massively root prune some and not others. I didn't observe any slow down of growth on the chopped ones. At the end of the observation I took some of the plants and removed lots of roots leaving a small root ball (more like an upside down tree structure due to no media) and they took right off in coco.


I find I can veg in way smaller containers this way for longer. Some times I'll even take a plant out of a pot, root prune it and repot it in the same container. It is amazing the abuse they can tolerate.

and might this practice make for bigger (diameter) stalks? I'm still onto the thinking, 'more roots = bigger, stronger plants', no? why does this sound contradictory to me?

 

[delta9nxs]

and might this practice make for bigger (diameter) stalks? I'm still onto the thinking, 'more roots = bigger, stronger plants', no? why does this sound contradictory to me?

it is contradictory in the sense that anything you remove from a fast growing vegetative plant is going to slow it down and affect subsequent yield.

jj does this to keep a plant ready until he needs it, just as i did it to be able to flower those two plants. i couldn't transplant in my normal time frame as i didn't know sex and so had to wait for that to happen as well as wait for available space. just making do with what you got.

in the beginning of the thread i was using a really rather radical radial redundant (or RRRRR) pruning technique and rotating the plants daily. i was getting about 10 zips per plant with this.

i quit rotating them and let them grow unfettered all the way through stretch and my yields went up. same plant.

shoot and root growth are directly tied together. one bootstraps the other. therefore any plant part that is removed during vegetative growth is going to hurt yield.

right now i do a light defoliation and thinning of interior growth one time. since the roots are virtually finished growing as the transition into flower occurs you now have more root mass per upper plant parts.

we do what we have to do.

 

[Snook]

it is contradictory in the sense that anything you remove from a fast growing vegetative plant is going to slow it down and affect subsequent yield.

jj does this to keep a plant ready until he needs it, just as i did it to be able to flower those two plants. i couldn't transplant in my normal time frame as i didn't know sex and so had to wait for that to happen as well as wait for available space. just making do with what you got.

in the beginning of the thread i was using a really rather radical radial redundant (or RRRRR) pruning technique and rotating the plants daily. i was getting about 10 zips per plant with this.

i quit rotating them and let them grow unfettered all the way through stretch and my yields went up. same plant.

shoot and root growth are directly tied together. one bootstraps the other. therefore any plant part that is removed during vegetative growth is going to hurt yield.

right now i do a light defoliation and thinning of interior growth one time. since the roots are virtually finished growing as the transition into flower occurs you now have more root mass per upper plant parts.

we do what we have to do.

I'm seeing the light. Fugger is bright! Thanks u2.

 

[cyat]

d9 are the clear containers ppks? and do you like usin the the clear buckets?

 

[delta9nxs]

d9 are the clear containers ppks? and do you like usin the the clear buckets?

hey, cyat! the clear containers are for cloning normally. they are not ppk's but do have a wick in them. normally i have the clone out of them before they grow much algae. i don't use clear buckets but if you are referring to these clone containers they are only for temporary use.

i like everything lightproof to discourage algae. algae is not a direct danger to the plants but it is competition for nutrients and clogs things rapidly.

i'm about to use them in a new way for me. i have two plants that are undeclared sexually and i don't want them in a ppk until i know for sure so i now have rooted clones of them.

so instead of flowering the moms/dads i'll put the clones into flower in these containers to show sex.

 

[delta9nxs]

By the way, do you have any idea how hard it is to get to 50 posts when growing passive in these things! I've lost intrest in alot of other aspects of growing> I cant argue about fertilizer any more, Ph is never an issue: actually it's gettin out of any thought at all, I used my Ph meter to test the ph of humidifier runnoff, first time in ?????? 5 months? I like straight coco.

look, people, we have claimed another victim!

 

[daggerinmyback]

I'm already building two mega setups for em, the county they live in is a 99 plant heaven ... mine is a 6 in flower per patient max....

and yeah I snapped a couple before the chop, and I need to try and figure out how to post em up, also out of the 20+ beans only 2 were viable after stressing a lot morphed and grew stunted ... but the one were running with is great for what we want and need

 

[Snook]

look, people, we have claimed another victim!

I do not feel a victim, here is what Wiki says a bout victim:

WIKI > Victim blaming occurs when the victim(s) of a crime, an accident, or any type of abusive maltreatment are held entirely or partially responsible for the transgressions committed against them.

I was a victim (abusive treatment) : now I am --not victim but a perpetrator. HAHAHAHAHA!!! Like you all.

 

[jjfoo]

and might this practice make for bigger (diameter) stalks? I'm still onto the thinking, 'more roots = bigger, stronger plants', no? why does this sound contradictory to me?

Growing indoors in containers is different that growing in the say the ground. Root pruning can make sense for this type of environment.


here is a study that shows that trees that are root pruned grow slightly faster in the first year (not slower), so I would say if the study's conclusion was accurate, then this would disprove a general statement like 'bigger roots, better something'

http://joa.isa-arbor.com/request.asp?JournalID=1&ArticleID=2509&Type=2



I find I can use smaller containers and not have to use so much media. My yield has been pretty constant before and after using root pruning, just less work in early veg. I can veg in a smaller pot essentially.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

root pruned grow slightly faster in the first year (not slower), so I would say if the study's conclusion was accurate, then this would disprove a general statement like 'bigger roots, better something'

I presume we're all taking about container gardening here...

Just as a plant's foliage can be managed for it's environment via pruning, shaping, manipulating, so too can it's root mass.

If we are in containers, and have most of our feeder roots ringing the perimeter of the pot... i.e. root mass isolated in a relatively small volume of the media, we are not effectively structuring the root mass to take best advantage of our feed (presuming coco/salts vs. complex biology).

Skillful root-pruning/timed-up-potting etc are ways of managing the root structure and density. Manged effectively, they can present a plant an opportunity to be more plantish than without our interference.

 

[DevilWeed]

You guys are making me feel less bad about vegging my Sour Strawberries in quart cups for 3 months...teeheehee. There is not much visiable coco in the root ball anymore. Just a root sponge at this point. Meh...

Been away for a bit. Lots of good stuff going on I see Mr Delta. New genes is always fun! I was lucky enough to stumble into some new stuff myself. A friend of a friend of a friend had some Quirkle that had been selected down out of many packs. Nice stinky sticky girl! Clones coming soon...

I've been severely neglecting my garden lately. I blame it on PPK's!!! Went in last week to see my 56 day, almost ready to cut girl all frosty frosty...with PM!!! Argh! Dam humidity is insane right now. Eagle 20 in veg now, and sulfur for a while. That plant will make some nice butter...or BHO. Finding that finally got me off my ass. I'm finally building my rooms the way I want! New wall is up, 100amp circuit parts are bought (ugh!) and I'm working my tail off. Wanted to get you guys input on flower room lighting. Single room design, 8kw max(lights), 15.5' x 12'. Thinking 36k mr slim for cooling and whatever I need for dehumi. All vert lighting, cool tubes, 1000's or a mix of 1000's and 600's. Heres a diagram with 40" light circles and 46" plants. The left one I was thinking standard 6 1k lights. 2 plants get 4k all around. I'd veg those special. Right one is 8 lights, all plants getting 3 sides. I was thinking of some 600's in that arangement.

Interested to hear opinions. Max plant count for me in flower is 24 so I can play around with it a lot.

 

[jjfoo]

it is contradictory in the sense that anything you remove from a fast growing vegetative plant is going to slow it down and affect subsequent yield.

I think you are over generalizing. I have done side by side plants in a low pressure aero system. My results don't agree with this statement. If I can show one case this is so, then it should make us thing. If you're results are different, then maybe one of us misunderstood what we were seeing, or we both understood but have different environments. There are are large number of factors.

If there was a difference, it was not measurable. If I can't measure it it really isn't real to me.

my results are open to error due to non lab like conditions (as are yours). I would like to see a reference to some university research that backs your claim.

This is something that is really easy to over simplify and come up with general ideas that don't apply to all environments.

 

[jjfoo]

The left one I was thinking standard 6 1k lights. 2 plants get 4k all around. I'd veg those special. Right one is 8 lights, all plants getting 3 sides. I was thinking of some 600's in that arrangement.

I like the one with 2 plants per light, no light is directly shinning on a wall. I'd be curious to see the outcome both ways and do some kind of a gram/watt/time calculation... I guessing that the system where no light shines out of the plants and on to a wall will get the most efficiency.


Will you have the center of the arc tube centered down in the plant area?

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

DW,

I like them both, but would probably run with the first set up (i.e. the one on the left).

D9's plants have shown a variety of yields, despite quality control in similar environmental conditions. More plants, while decreasing individual yield/plant (especially the outer corners) from imbalanced light, might balance out bad luck (bad roots, underachiever) with one of your monsters in the second plan.

EDIT: What's the limitation to 8K? And... You might be able to scale down dedicated light in veg. (Rather, I think you can run a 12 plant perpetual in flower with 1K plus some T5/preveg lighting).