Dri-Eaz and Santa Fe Dehumidifiers

[Mister_D]

Specificly i am considering purchasing a Dri-Eaz CMC100 (70 pint) or a Santa Fe Compact (Model #4029900) (65 pint). My questions are:

1. Do these units produce less heat than their big box store equivalents? after some research i'm am lead to believe they do, but would like to hear from someone with first hand experience.

2. If they do produce less heat while running, how big of a degree difference is their in the exhausted air temperature?

3. I have read many reports that the santa fe classic, used by many of the big boys, removes a great deal more water than an equivalent pint per day big box setup. is this also true comparitively speaking of the above mentioned models?

Basicly i am wanting to know if the proformance of these models justifies the added cost over big box setup. lower exhaust heat output being my main concern. also taking into account that a unit that is more effecient at removing water will run less and therefore produce less heat over all.

Thanks in advance to those who chime in with there experiences.

 

[grow nerd]

1. Yes
2. Depends on fan CFM typically
3. Yes. The MaxDry is even better plus it's easier to hang
4. Yes they pay for themselves in electrical use cost as well as garden performance and longer-lasting

Typically the amount of power drawn will determine the amount of heat put out, and although this isn't something that would fit the linear scale, it's a good general rule-of-thumb. The parts' (compressor, etc) efficiency and whatnot will also determine that, but don't worry about that for now.

A less efficient, hotter-running unit will cost you extra not only in the electrical draw for itself, but from the additional load on the cooling system as well. The total cost of operation and ownership on a lower-end unit is higher, just that simple.

 

[guyyug]

These high end units draw about 150W less than the equivalent cheap version (70 pint). But I have read that these high end units will do the work faster, thus running for less time, which cuts down on heat. I wonder if someone can give an estimate about the % of time they run compared to the cheap units...

Someone running a big show can easily justify the expense of these, but they are 5 times the price, is it 5 times as efficient?

 

[grow nerd]

Comparing apples to oranges.

150w less for what workload? Look at the performance table, it will tell lots. AHAM standards are 80F @ 60% RH. Most consumer portable units, and many "commercial units" (including Dri-Eaz, DrizAir, etc) will also report more favorable, non-AHAM numbers. The units can draw more power than the spec plate depending on temperature and RH.

One of the key differences that makes the ThermaStor-made dehumidifiers (Phoenix, Santa Fe, etc) that much more efficient is the use of an intercooler. It's that black plastic grate that you see right below/behind the filter.

They're not 5x as efficient, but they don't have to be to be cheaper to own/run in the long term. For most growers under PG&E (and similar) in California, a highly efficient DH will almost pay for the difference only after one cycle. Subsequent cycles will "earn you money".

 

[MIway]

If your goal is the maximum water removal with the least amount of add back heat... and cost is a secondary consideration... look at the Phoenix line... or any of Thermastor's Low Grain Refrigerent (LGR) models.

Phoenix LGR is my first vote, Dual Max HT is the second.

 

[grow nerd]

The Phoenix units are slightly more portable (has wheels and handle) but isn't necessarily "better", as it's more or less the same technology used in their Santa Fe line, just more rugged housing and features more suited for the restoration environment (layflat duct support, no humidistat, built-in condensate pump w/ purge switch). And although I like those features, it's usually not worth paying for in a growroom environment unless you can find a used one. The MaxDry typically offers the best $/ppd/watt ratio. Did I mention it's easy to hang? It's super handy if you have a big room with many units.

 

[FreedomGrower]

hmmm I got driz air 110 used locally for 375; from a shop like 5 min from my house so if it breaks; they will swap it ... This unit is 5+ years very old yet still cranks is silent and keeps the humidity in my 7 light sealed room down to 30 in 10 minutes ...

Takes out 7-12 gallons a day in the favorable temperature operating zone @ 30-45% humidity ...

heat comes out the front; rear condenser coils are cold; Id say it puts out same amount of heat as a 250watt hps


No more consumer crap for me;

here is a similar unit for new;

• H2O removal24hrs) 100 pints (80° F, 60%)

http://www.google.com/products/cata...=X&ei=aCIFTomiBIv6sAPpiuGyDQ&ved=0CFEQ8wIwAg#

 

[MIway]

You need to look a bit deeper than the numbers... as the range of temps we operate in (high & lows) effects the water removal capacity, along with build considerations like coil size/surface area. The LGR allows for better water removal while operating in less than ideal temp ranges... another bene you can't just tell from reading the numbers.

If you dig into the all the details... the Thermastor units are pretty darn nice... much better than box units, combined.

Anywho... from experience, most any of their models work really well... hard to 'lose' with one of these.

 

[guyyug]

The Ebac units seem to be even more efficient, do they hold up just as well as a santa fe?

 

[grow nerd]

Ebac units are not more efficient.

Dehumidifiers I've owned (I think in the order introduced to me):

Hydrofarm 20L/day
Kenmore 50ppd
Kenmore 65ppd
Kenmore 70ppd, old style
Kenmore 70ppd, new style w/ condensate pump
LG 65ppd
Santa Fe Classic
Dri-Eaz DrizAir 1200
Ebac Orion
Williams-Classic AirSponge DH-130A
Phoenix 200 Max
Santa Fe MaxDry

For any grow 4kw+, I choose the MaxDry,nless a water damage restoration company is going out of business and has a bunch of used Phoenix units for cheap. The Kenmore 70's, the Air Sponge, and the Santa Fe's are the only units I purchased new and unused... everything else was purchased used, mostly craigslist.

 

[Mister_D]

The MaxDry is a bit more dehumidifer than i really need for my setup. I have a big box 65 pint already that can easily keep up along with my air conditioner. i just don't at all like the added heat. It produces easily as much heat as 1000w magnetic light setup, maybe more. Ultimately the goal being to reduce heat generated and therefore power used. At this point I am leaning heavily towards the sante fe compact, reviews are consistantly positive on this unit. The dri-eaz gets high marks also, but the humidistat is supposedly not very accurate. GrowNerd you mention the cfm rating being a detrimining factor in how much heat is produced. Care to elaborate?

 

[cannascholar]

I like the Dri-Eaz, very easy to move around, nice heat pump, less heat than a standard kenmore, works hard. The intercooler thing sounds nice, does it lower heat output?

 

[Mr Eckted]

The Dri-Eaz is probably the best unit. Get an LGR Dehu Console. Or a Pheonix unit. NOT a desiccant based one though, you will turn your entire house to powder with those.

Also keep in mind that their exhaust is HOT. Way warmer than the ambient temp in the room they're in. They will add a ton of heat if not exhausted properly.

 

[guyyug]

Ebac CS60 says 56 ppd @ AHAM with 2.2 amps (cfm 360)
santa fe compact 65 ppd @ AHAM with 5.5 amps (cfm 190)

that seems much more efficient to me, it does cost 100 more and they are similarly sized, but the ebac uses r22...


And if you move up to the max dry dual XT you get a LOT more moisture removal per amp than the compact... which should be less heat, correct?


grow nerd, can you tell us more about your thoughts on all those dehumidifiers you used? What about for a 2k room?

 

[grow nerd]

Where are you getting 2.2A for the Ebac CS60? I find it extremely hard to believe that any refrigerant-based device rated in that neighborhood with a fan draws 2.2A, before even looking up the CS60 specs.

 

[grow nerd]

CS60 spec sheet: http://www.ebacusa.com/brochures/CS60.pdf

7A

I do see on their HTML webpage the "running amps" quoting 2.5A. Interesting.

 

[grow nerd]

For a 2kw room, if you can afford it, get a Santa Fe Classic. Should handle up to 4k-ish, depending on your style of growing (canopy density, air movement, sealed room, temps, medium/system, etc). Otherwise, a 70ppd Kenmore/LG or other "portable plastic" type unit should be good capacity-wise.

My thoughts on the units... let's see:

Hydrofarm 20L/day - ran very hot for the little bit of water collected, seemed extremely inefficient. maybe a faulty unit, but isn't even close to Energy Star rated to begin with so i doubt it.
Kenmore 50ppd - More or less the same experience with all the 50/65/70ppd "portable plastic" units. They seem to do the job (with enough units), but with a weak blower that shoots hot air up so care must be taken in placing the unit or redirecting exhaust. Not the most reliable, I've had multiple units die on me, seems the first to go is the fan or parts associated with it. Can be a DIY fix but still a pain in the ass. Relatively loud. Decent amount of heat for the amount of water pulled.
Kenmore 65ppd
Kenmore 70ppd, old style
Kenmore 70ppd, new style w/ condensate pump - pretty cool unit with remote (rf) lcd display/control, and built-in condensate pump and carry handle. more or less the same story function wise, but looks slicker and the condensate pump is very handy since I don't come across floor drains that often
LG 65ppd
Santa Fe Classic - My first "big boy" unit, learned about it through canna sites. Did a comparison test in a room once... needed 3 70ppd Kenmore's to achieve the same RH as 1 Santa Fe Classic. The Santa Fe Classic seemed to draw less power than a single Kenmore, and definitely much less heat than the 3. Maybe even less heat 1 vs 1.
Dri-Eaz DrizAir 1200 - Tried to find a used Santa Fe, failed; found this instead (CL); was fooled into thinking that it was a comparable unit to the Santa Fe Classic based on my misunderstandings on DH specs. If you can get it for the right price and power isn't a huge concern, it can be okay. If you're trying to spend the same dollar scale on this unit as a Santa Fe, don't.
Ebac Orion - Nice unit, strong blower, has restoration company type features like an hour meter, on/off switch instead of humidistat, built-in condensate pump w/ purge switch, similar in features as Phoenix but the Phoenix line IMO is better built. Found this one on craigslist from a restoration company.
Williams-Classic AirSponge DH-130A - Hot & heavy is what I really remember. Heavy as hell. Strong blower. Easily ductable out of the box. Seemed to throw out a good amount of heat. This was my attempt at a finding a more upfront-cost-efficient "big boy"unit than the Santa Fe's. Available through Home Depot online. Didn't like it. Hot hot hot. Exterior is built like a tank. A .22 might not penetrate it. Even the duct flanges are heavy-duty.
Phoenix 200 Max - Set of used units from a restoration company on CL again, with low hours. Very well built unit, the layflat duct support is nice because you can get cheap inflatable duct and punch holes in it to disperse the dry air to different parts of the room.
Santa Fe MaxDry - Best ppd/watt/$ ratio of them all from my research and experience, extremely efficient, low heat, easily hangable. I love this one.

 

[REZDOG]

Nice thread!

 

[grow nerd]

The intercooler does not directly lower heat output, it makes the device more efficient. The ThermaStor (as well as other high-end) units uses a more powerful blower to direct/redirect the air in a more efficient manner (some use redirected heat to defrost, instead of a timer shutting the compressor off) including through an intercooler and better designed / shaped / placed coils.

Because it's that much more efficient, it ultimately lowers the total heat output since it removes more water for the same amount of energy drawn (ultimately converted to heat)... either fewer or smaller units required, and/or runs less often.

On fan CFM & heat output: I meant this only for the temperature of the exhaust air stream ("felt heat"), but the total BTU/h should be the same regardless of fan size. A larger fan will not reduce the total amount of heat thrown into the room (if anything, it would theoretically add heat to it since the fan itself generates heat). Kinda relevant/important on placement of the unit and its exhaust.

 

[grow nerd]

If you never thought about hanging a dehumidifier...