Signs that a collapse is under way.

[DiscoBiscuit]

how could i have missed it?!?!?!?[/FONT]

You didn't miss it, you dissed it. After acknowledging an aspect we initially disagreed.

 

[dagnabit]

You didn't miss it, you dissed it. After acknowledging an aspect we initially disagreed.

about amoebas?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

about amoebas?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

sure its not tax revenue but its still OUR money...

It's no more our money than monies from European or Asian central banks. Business may solicit loans from the fed but taxpayers don't fund the principal that bases these loans.

Dept of Treasury - receives revenues and pays national obligations.

Federal Reserve - generates commerce through the fractional reserve process (generating money via loans and payback.)

TARP bailed out investment banks through Treasury. The taxpayer filled the treasury void. At of yet, taxpayers aren't on the hook for QE. We only (collectively) have ~$74 t. International derivative trades alone have been estimated at ~$700 t.

 

[Hydrosun]

The whole our, us, we, them paradox is a bunch of shit.

These central bankers are THEM who set immoral rules to control wealth and play god.

 

[dagnabit]

 

[whodare]

It's no more our money than monies from European or Asian central banks. Business may solicit loans from the fed but taxpayers don't fund the principal that bases these loans.

Dept of Treasury - receives revenues and pays national obligations.

Federal Reserve - generates commerce through the fractional reserve process (generating money via loans and payback.)

TARP bailed out investment banks through Treasury. The taxpayer filled the treasury void. At of yet, taxpayers aren't on the hook for QE. We only (collectively) have ~$74 t. International derivative trades alone have been estimated at ~$700 t.

inflation sure is a tax and them generting money from thin air causes inflation...

im not gonna argue a moot point here "they" the Fed who is not controlled by congress and despite its name is not a federal agency controls the value of the american dollar, which is "my/our" money

The whole our, us, we, them paradox is a bunch of shit.

These central bankers are THEM who set immoral rules to control wealth and play god.

right on hydro thats the point,

 

[SpasticGramps]

I'll have to say. Bernanke's gem from the speech today was, wait for it,........

“We don't have a precise read on why this slower pace of growth is persisting”

Benocide Ben Bernanke

Translated to layman's terms is "I don't know what the fuck is going on and I certainly don't know what the fuck I'm doing."

Geithner: Welcome to the Recovery New York Times

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

inflation sure is a tax and them generting money from thin air causes inflation...

Walking toward isn't necessarily walking to.

im not gonna argue a moot point here "they" the Fed who is not controlled by congress and despite its name is not a federal agency controls the value of the american dollar, which is "my/our" money

I wouldn't recommend taking back dollars that you/we don't own. Not only does the fed control our monetary flow, every country that invests owns dollars. We only "own" revenues aka treasury.

right on hydro thats the point,

Yeah, "them". That has a bit of irony compared to your sig line.

Us vs them is the most basic breakdown of things people don't understand. I never suggested you like it as I don't myself. I still like to keep context in it's place. Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable, that isn't my intent.

 

[FreedomFightr]

QE3....

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

...coming to a theater near you.

 

[whodare]

your too intellectual disco i cant even hang...

not many things in life are black and white, but the difference between the megalomaniacs in power and the rest of us slaves is pretty black and white...

 

[HempKat]

They're STILL getting our money...and they're STILL getting bonuses!

Obama WORKS for the bankers...and the multinational corporations. When you realize this...you'll realize WHY the things that happen do.

Read my reply to the guy who sent in bullshit resumes and who thinks the world is nothing but a big con. EVERYONE lies to get what they want...it's what people do. Obama "dressed up", marketed himself, to get elected...and now it's the next morning and we're waking up next to someone we don't recognize...someone who is ugly as hell...someone who wore a lot of makeup, wore a wonder bra, and control top pantyhose...all to get us to take them home with us...only for us to be disappointed in the morning.

What makes you think I don't know Obama works for the banks and big corporations? Every president since I've been alive has. Well except maybe one but he was conveniently assassinated. You seem to feel you're the only one who realizes there's corruption in our Government. You're not and when you realize this you'll probably stop arguing with people so much. Yeah Obama lied, Bush lied, Clinton lied, Bush Sr. lied, Reagan lied, Carter lied, it's what politicians do.

See the reality is this, the banks and the corporations own the politicians but they don't fully control the government because they don't own the people and that's where the power really is. That's why they own the politicians though, so they can get out there and lie to, confuse, baffle and befuddle the people with smoke and mirrors while doing the Washington two step in order to pull one over on the masses. The problem though is they've gotten too greedy and in the process have destroyed the American Dream. People are struggling to get by and there's nothing left they can squeeze out of folks yet they still try to improve that bottomline by charging the same price for things but giving people less, or poorer quality. People are upset and pissed off, and rightfully so. Upset people are dangerous, they're unpredictable. I bet they're banking the people will do as they have in the past and switch from left to right in the next election. I hear more and more folks coming to the conclusion that both sides are as bad as the other though so this next election may be a shocker, especially if we get a charismatic and intelligent candidate in the independent party.

 

[HempKat]

mmmmmmmmmmmm pieeee

 

[High Country]

Where I live I don't worry about this shit, day to day life is enough of a drama.

 

[joeuser]

What makes you think I don't know Obama works for the banks and big corporations? Every president since I've been alive has. Well except maybe one but he was conveniently assassinated. You seem to feel you're the only one who realizes there's corruption in our Government. You're not and when you realize this you'll probably stop arguing with people so much. Yeah Obama lied, Bush lied, Clinton lied, Bush Sr. lied, Reagan lied, Carter lied, it's what politicians do.

See the reality is this, the banks and the corporations own the politicians but they don't fully control the government because they don't own the people and that's where the power really is. That's why they own the politicians though, so they can get out there and lie to, confuse, baffle and befuddle the people with smoke and mirrors while doing the Washington two step in order to pull one over on the masses. The problem though is they've gotten too greedy and in the process have destroyed the American Dream. People are struggling to get by and there's nothing left they can squeeze out of folks yet they still try to improve that bottomline by charging the same price for things but giving people less, or poorer quality. People are upset and pissed off, and rightfully so. Upset people are dangerous, they're unpredictable. I bet they're banking the people will do as they have in the past and switch from left to right in the next election. I hear more and more folks coming to the conclusion that both sides are as bad as the other though so this next election may be a shocker, especially if we get a charismatic and intelligent candidate in the independent party.

Great...now TWO of us know what's going on...pass it on to the others who DON'T know how it all works...please!

Do you know how many will do EXACTLY what you described? They'll just switch from the D crooks to the R crooks not realizing that they're ALL the same crooks!

 

[SpasticGramps]

Benoicde Bernanke's European counterpart releases his statement on the likely hood of the shit hitting the fan fairly soon now.

Once again I reiterate. The crisis from 2008 never went away. The masses just went back to sleep for a little while. There never was a "recovery." Just a coverup. They will wake back up to a much much worse nightmare now that we've kicked the can to the absolute end of the road.

Trichet Says Risk Signals Are Flashing Red as Debt Crisis Threatens Bank Bloomberg

European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet said risk signals for financial stability in the euro area are flashing “red” as the debt crisis threatens to infect banks.

“On a personal basis I would say ‘yes, it is red’,” Trichet said late yesterday in Frankfurt after a meeting of the European Systemic Risk Board, referring to the group’s planned “dashboard” to monitor risks. “The message of the board is that” the link between debt problems and banks “is the most serious threat to financial stability in the European Union.”

Trichet, who chairs the ESRB, made the remarks as European leaders meet in Brussels to discuss how to stave off a Greek default, while preparing a second bailout. The EU is trying to avoid a repeat of the financial crisis that followed the 2008 collapse of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. (LEHMQ) and resulted in European governments setting aside more than $5 trillion to support banks.

The yield difference, or spread, between 10-year German bunds and Greek securities of a similar maturity was at 1,388 basis points today, up from 1,317 at the beginning of the month. Swaps on Greece rose 25 basis points to 2,012, signalling an 82 percent chance of default within five years, according to CMA.

Trichet Says Risk Signals Are Flashing Red as Debt Crisis Threatens Bank

 

[Weed-Luver]

your too intellectual disco i cant even hang...

not many things in life are black and white, but the difference between the megalomaniacs in power and the rest of us slaves is pretty black and white...

each person has value regardless of the position or financial standing. I'm a lot more at peace since I learned that..you can hang with anyone bro..don't sell urself short..most of these intellectuals you can't hang with don't have a lick of common sense..there's really only 2 things that fuck up everything..MONEY & RELIGION..Peace WL

 

[SpasticGramps]

Interesting article.

America Faces Critical "Colonel Jessup" Moment

By Joseph Calhoun

Jessup: You want answers?

Kaffee: I think I'm entitled to them.

Jessup: You want answers?

Kaffee: I want the truth!

Jessup: You can't handle the truth!

Scene from A Few Good Men, written by Aaron Sorkin

The context of that quote from A Few Good Men has nothing to do with the current economic problems facing the world but it perfectly captures why we are still struggling to recover from the financial crisis that gripped the world almost three years ago. Like Colonel Jessup, President Obama - and President Bush before him - believes he is doing what is necessary to protect us and that we are ingrates for questioning his methods. He and the other leaders of the world don't believe we can handle the truth about the causes of the crisis or the necessary steps required for real recovery. Rather than lead the world to a better future they waste our resources trying to maintain the illusion of the past.

This failure of leadership is not confined to the present administration or any particular political party. As the present Greek tragedy amply demonstrates, it is not just an American failure but a collective, worldwide abdication of responsibility. It is a lack of confidence in the abilities of the average world citizen and a fear of the political consequences of revealing the truth that motivates our leaders. While these "leaders" often claim to be protecting the less fortunate among us - and most likely believe it themselves - their actions have the effect of shielding the wealthy and powerful from the consequences of their failures. It is ironic that many of these "leaders" who have in the past ridiculed the idea that the success of the few can trickle down to the many now steadfastly believe that failure of the same few will.

Solving the worldwide debt crisis will involve sacrifices beyond what have already been endured. Whether the EU bails out Greece in the short term will only determine the timetable of their eventual default. It may be possible to keep them liquid in the short term but no amount of new debt will make them solvent in the long run. The only question is who will bear the burden of the losses and how quickly they will be realized. If the losses are realized quickly and borne by the responsible parties, the pain will be intense but relatively short lived. If the losses are realized slowly, a remedy pioneered by the Japanese over the last two decades, the pain may be less intense but the duration may well be measured in generations.

The political unrest fomented by forcing society as a whole to shoulder the imprudent bankers' share of the losses cannot be ignored. The Greek people are being asked to endure potentially decades of economic depression for the sake of the European banks who lent their politicians the money to buy their votes. While the Greek people surely deserve blame for accepting the generous benefits doled out by their political class, it is immoral to force them to shoulder the blame properly apportioned to Greece's bankers. The pain of solving this crisis must be shared by borrowers and lenders alike.

If Greece's debts are restructured and reduced to a reasonable level the ability of the Greek government to borrow would be sharply curtailed for at least a few years. The Greek people would then have little choice but to accept a reduction in their overly generous, government provided benefits. They might also be more willing to accept those conditions peacefully if the debt reduction allows their economy to grow. The opportunity to replace the lost benefits through economic growth is an acceptable compromise but losing both the benefits and the potential for growth is not. It isn't the truth that the Greeks can't handle; it is the lie that they alone must suffer to save the rest of Europe.

The Great Lie that politicians have told for decades is that they can provide a world of perpetual economic growth where no one suffers the consequences of bad decisions. Here in the US we were told that the Federal Reserve had solved the mysteries of monetary policy to such a degree that recessions had been rendered obsolete. This free lunch monetary policy, where all economic disruptions were solved by reducing the price of credit, has brought us to a point where no amount of credit is sufficient to restore growth. The truth is that there is no free lunch and the bill for perpetual growth through credit has now come due. The truth is that there are always disruptions to growth, some natural and some the result of bad policy. The proper response is to allow the natural disruptions to run their course and to correct the bad policies.

The Truth of our current situation is that both government spending as stimulus and Federal Reserve attempts to create sufficient credit to restore growth have failed. The negative consequences of both now far outweigh any potential benefits. Further deficit spending will just move us closer to our own Greek moment while further expansions of the Federal Reserve's balance sheet risks our privileged status as the world's reserve currency. Either outcome carries consequences well beyond anything we've experienced to date. It is time for the government to perform the only role for which it is suited - providing stability to allow the economy to recover naturally.

Our fiscal situation is dire but it can be solved with bold leadership. Cut spending, reform the tax code, Social Security and Medicare and do it now, not after the next election. Close the loopholes that benefit the few at the expense of the many. Stop government directed investments with dubious benefits and trust that the genius of millions will create more jobs than politically correct boondoggles devised by a few K Street Congressional cronies. Reform Social Security and Medicare so they can fulfill the promises made to our most vulnerable senior citizens by raising the retirement age and reducing future benefits for those who can afford to fund their own retirement. Reduce corporate taxes to 15%, eliminate all the loopholes and shift to territorial taxation so the US becomes a magnet for global capital. Bring the troops home, reduce and redirect defense spending so our military can perform its one vital mission of protecting America.

Our monetary system also requires reform so the rewards of capitalism are once again shared more equally among our citizens. The chasm that has developed between the wealthy and the poor is a direct result of monetary manipulation that creates opportunity for those with the means to protect themselves from the changing value of the dollar and misery for those who don't. The poor and middle class do not have the necessary level of financial knowledge or the ability to rearrange their financial affairs in ways to offset the effects of a fluctuating currency. Those on fixed incomes, who depend on safe investments for their well being, have been sacrificed on the altar of low interest rates for the benefit of financial company CEOs. It isn't right, fair or moral and it has to stop. The Federal Reserve should have one and only one objective - provide a stable value for the dollar. The culture of credit must come to an end.

The time has come to build a better future rather than continuing to borrow from future generations. It won't be easy and will require sacrifice from all Americans but the Truth - and responsible leadership - shall set us free.

I hate to be a pessimist, but looking back at our track record I can't see humanity doing anything else except falling flat on it's face here. Leaders are too corrupt and the masses are too addicted to the illusion to face reality until the free market violently shoves it down their throats.

 

[Scout]

Signs that a collapse has been under way....our leaders along with the vast majority of people are or are going full retard.

Debt jubilee!!!

Much of modern civilization has been primed for the ultimate war of All against All...the bottleneck gets smaller and smaller everyday.

One Love, One Heart
Blessings