Signs that a collapse is under way.

[immaculate]

Standing there alone
the ship is waiting
all systems are go
are you sure?
control is not convinced
but the computer
has the evidence
"no need to abort"
the countdown starts

watching in a trance
the crew is certain
nothing left to chance
all is working
trying to relax
up in the capsule
"send me up a drink"
jokes Major Tom
the count goes on

Fohr, two, three, one
Earth below us
drifting falling
floating weightless
calling calling home...

second stage is cut
we're now in orbit
stabilizers up
runnning perfect
starting to collect
requested data
what will it effect
when all is done
thinks Major Tom

back at ground control
there is a problem
go to rockets full
not responding
"hello Major Tom
are you receiving
turn the thrusters on
we're standing by"
there's no reply

Four, three, two, one.
Earth below us
drifting falling
floating weightless
calling calling home...

across the stratosphere
a final message
"give my wife my love"
then nothing more

far beneath the ship
the world is mourning
they don't realize
he's alive
no one understands
but Major Tom sees
now the life commands
this is my home
I'm coming home

Earth below us
drifting falling
floating weightless
coming home...
Earth below us
drifting falling
floating weightless
coming home...
Earth below us
drifting falling
floating weightless
coming coming home...
home.....

 

[High Country]

Standing there alone
the ship is waiting
all systems are go
are you sure?
control is not convinced
but the computer
has the evidence
"no need to abort"
the countdown starts

watching in a trance
the crew is certain
nothing left to chance
all is working
trying to relax
up in the capsule
"send me up a drink"
jokes Major Tom
the count goes on

Fohr, two, three, one
Earth below us
drifting falling
floating weightless
calling calling home...

second stage is cut
we're now in orbit
stabilizers up
runnning perfect
starting to collect
requested data
what will it effect
when all is done
thinks Major Tom

back at ground control
there is a problem
go to rockets full
not responding
"hello Major Tom
are you receiving
turn the thrusters on
we're standing by"
there's no reply

Four, three, two, one.
Earth below us
drifting falling
floating weightless
calling calling home...

across the stratosphere
a final message
"give my wife my love"
then nothing more

far beneath the ship
the world is mourning
they don't realize
he's alive
no one understands
but Major Tom sees
now the life commands
this is my home
I'm coming home

Earth below us
drifting falling
floating weightless
coming home...
Earth below us
drifting falling
floating weightless
coming home...
Earth below us
drifting falling
floating weightless
coming coming home...
home.....

What's that all about?

 

[joeuser]

Hey Joeuser, I agree with some of what you say. You should read and learn a bit about fractional reserve banking though and perhaps it will help you understand why some people ( me in particular) have no problem if someone wants to make a business/financial decision to stop paying for an investment ( a house in this case) that has decreased in value to less than what they owe on it. It is the type of decision that businesses make every day and we think they're smart but if an individual homeowner makes the same decision it's some kind of moral failing??

I know all about fractional reserve banking...bring in $1,000 in deposits and lend out $9,000 in loans from newly created money.

I don't even have a problem with "strategic default"...UNTIL...I have to help pay for it!!!

When YOU make a decision to default...but you KNOW that all your neighbors are going to end up paying for it...I have a problem with YOU defaulting.

The problem is the government backstop. Get rid of that FIRST.

I don't think it's immoral if they walk away from the underwater investment (home) and leave. That's fine and normal. That's the banks problem. What I really have a beef with is if they walk away (stop paying), but then squat inside the home knowing that bank won't foreclose because they have too much toxic debt already. That's the ethical problem I have. When you walk away that house should go to market. You can make a case probably with 90% of the mortgages that the bank has no legal recourse to foreclose because they don't know who has the title via robo-signing and all the other institutionalized fraud within the securitization process.

Eventually my generation and younger (<30) is going to strategically default on the debt placed on us from past generations. I will support that because the debt burden itself is immoral. You shouldn't spend other generations money to live it up today and expect them to pick up the tab. Especially when the tab is everything they'll ever have.

Thank the lawyers for the "robo signing" shit...first they say...sure, it's legal, start MERS and keep track of everything there. Then the states, tired of the slick lawyers MERS system ripping them off from real estate transfer fees...decided that MERS isn't OK. So NOW there's a big "who owns the note" scandal.

WHY do we have all this debt? Again...it was ALL started during the civil rights movement...when we decided it's OK to pay for the ENTIRE life of select minorities. Welfare has destroyed this country...it's destroying MOST countries. "Entitlements"...the REAL entitlements...are killing us. We're going into debt so a whole class of people can live a "decent" life. I'm not the reason for the debt...you're not the reason... It's the poor living in the inner cities taking MOST of the money that goes to the people. Corporations get welfare too...it too must stop.

You blame "us"...the older generation...but it's not US that screwed you...it's your crooked government...making special deals for some people and not others.

Obviously everyone defaulting would rock the world. But economists have been saying for some time we have to hit solid ground to know what real home values are. So long as the banks are mandated to minimize lending fraud, AAA quality mortgages will return to AAA quality investment vehicles.

Don't forget that it's always been the lenders responsibility to due-diligence the potential borrower. They have the wherewithal to practically guarantee that a substantial amount of mortgage default doesn't occur. Credit default swaps meant lenders could sell mortgages rather than hold them until payoff. This fostered greed in the system. Buyers were actually recruited where lenders would market loans instead of oversee who qualifies.

This bubble was more than mortgage fraud. We're replete with lending fraud, investment fraud and to-big-to-fail. It's so comprehensive, one really has to wrap their head around it to really comprehend. You don't have to accept though.

Morals are relative. Not necessarily in importance but we all decide where to draw the proverbial line. In times of economic peril, morals are often tempered by economics.

You're so wrong I don't know where to start...WHERE do you get your "information"?

If EVERYONE defaults..it's over...is that what you want? Collapse? That's what everyone stopping paying will do.

Economists? You mean those multi-billionaires who KNOW what's going on? Or those poor misguided people who "know" what's going on...yet can't seem to make any money with that knowledge. They're like "psychics"...they KNOW the future...yet can never seem to benefit from it! You put your trust in the wrong people!

It WAS the lenders responsibility...and they did pretty good...UNTIL...until the government said...GIVE LOANS TO MINORITIES... That's when it ALL changed. Since they didn't have credit, income, or half a brain...now EVERYONE is eligible for a loan! To get the minority poor to qualify, ALL standards were dropped. Even pet birds could get a loan. THAT is what fucked up the mortgage and real estate market!!!

The FRAUD was the fraud of the government backstopping EVERY loan...including NINJA loans. Get the government OUT of business. Get them OUT of ALL loan guarantees.

If it were unethical or immoral the economic actor would bare the cost associated; unfortunately the legal system in the USA is no longer ethical or moral. Because of the immoral and unethical legal system unethical bankers made immoral loans to potentially unethical borrowers.

The bankers don't give a shit because they got paid a huge origination fee and shifted all financial risk to investors (foreign funds, pension funds, etc.).

Sure some people took advantage of easy credit and a housing market that went up every year and never down; but the bankers could have prevented 100% of the mess by not making shady loans.

All of us who own / pay for real estate have seen huge declines in the value of our assets. The blame lies with the politicians and bankers NOT the maid who was given a $500K mortgage with ZERO down. Sure she should have known that she couldn't pay monthly for 30 years AND she MIGHT not be able to sell the house a year later for a $100K profit; however it is the bankers responsibility to make sure the borrower is credit worthy. Caveat Emptor works both ways.

The investors bought those fucked up mortgage packages for ONE reason...the US government GUARANTEED the loans! Stop telling business how to run their business.

I really think that the poor are going to be our downfall...they're sucking us dry. Our "poor" live better than the upper middle class in most countries. ALL on my dime! On YOUR dime!

THAT's what we need to do...not default...just stop giving away our money to people "I" feel deserve nothing. We're actually GROWING our poor population...every day we have more and more "needy" people to house and feed. THAT is what has to stop.

Our government is screwing us over...so they can get rich. Government and business...are the same people...they write laws for THEIR benefit...not the citizens. THAT is what has to stop. We need to take back government...not stop paying our debts.

 

[Weird]

how did a signs of collapse get into a mortgage fraud argument?

no need to argue

It is one of the industries I serviced and I knew many mortgage brokers

some were 6 figure earners

and you know

as long as they got paid they pushed paper no mater how it had to happen

and trust me, they KNEW it was a bad move for many people, the loan products they sold, but THEY STILL GOT COMMISSIONS

see this is what in other industries is called proof of performance

the brokers were rewarded by writing loans, and commissions came quick, they were not rewarded on the quality of the loan

why not?

because the banks were in a gold rush for 30 year notes at fat interest ratings

now if an lender (institution) with 50 + years of college in its sales chain (broker, lawyer, underwriter, financial, ect) dealing with a one client who at best has one representative how can you claim there is equal culpability to the borrower?

Now I am not saying that everyone in the mortgage industry was on the take BUT many of the educated people in that industry knew there were some serious flaws and the rest, well they were too busy spending future income they didn't have time to even consider it.

at the end those on the lending side got very rich or made obscene amounts of money and the lenders well they are stuck holding the bag

the people who worked under the protection of the corporate veil have no liability yet the borrowers are left holding the bag

This will continue to be the trend, the marginalization of private citizen rights in favor of the veil of corporate liability because corporate lobbies have taken the fat they skimmed off american and put it into corporate favoring legislature

corporations as you can see, HAVE NO FUCKING MORALS, they have balance sheets, profits and shareholders.

they a have in a few short decades undermined the spirit of democracy (see your patriotic Americans in WWII for an example) with the spirit of greed and apathy

keep in mind traditional american economic model is supposed so see the distribution of monies generated in the country distributed in the country

the new economy created by these corporate conglomerates diverts the money spent by thew lower classes out of the economy and leaves the liability in the same sector, the middle and lower class

why is it ok for corporations to cash out and leave us holding the bill?

why is it ok for corporations to have less liability and more liberty than an individual?

monopoly laws were created as emerging industries did this in the late 1800s and early 1900s (iirc as far as timing) and these are the reasons why

when any given entity outweighs the rights of the private citizen WE HAVE LOST OUR CONSTITUTIONAL LIBERTY

ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL, no creation of man government, corporate, religious or other should ever have more liberty or more rights than the individual

more capital wealth and corporate law make financial entities more powerful and less liable than people we are back were we were when we succeeded from England and created our own sovereignty

 

[In~Plain~Site]

The devil can't buy any souls if they're not for sale.

 

[Weird]

The devil can't buy any souls if they're not for sale.

i love the way that sounds but here is the problem

your trying to equate this to a free market model where there is only buyer and seller but here we pay a government taxes to protect a consumer and uphold a constitution

not take the money and run and allow the perpetrators and profiteers to pass the cost to the victim

sounds like the devil got you as delusional as everyone else who was involved in this gold rush that cost people their slice of the american dream

we dont have to margnilize another human beings to profit there is such a thing as symbiotic relationships that are synergistic

 

[SpasticGramps]

You blame "us"...the older generation...but it's not US that screwed you...it's your crooked government...making special deals for some people and not others.

If that sounded like I do, I don't. They bought a lie from their leaders. It's what happens over and over again in history. What can you do? I blame the banks and especially the central banking system for all of this. Banks running the world is a bad deal.

 

[In~Plain~Site]

True.

It's a paradigm run a muck.
I just happen to believe that both sides were at fault.(consumers/corporate)

Did they exploit some peoples hopes and dreams? Absolutely.

I want to believe in the inherent good in us all, my personal experiences tell me that's not case in some instances.

I also happen to think some of those folks played right into Darwin's hands, with or without the crooked vehicle, some will fall away,this just expedited their 'demise'.I'm not justifying anything on behalf of anyone...I just don't really trust anyone/thing.

I still believe in the free market as long as everyone is playing by the same rules

It's a jungle out there

i love the way that sounds but here is the problem

your trying to equate this to a free market model where there is only buyer and seller but here we pay a government taxes to protect a consumer and uphold a constitution

not take the money and run and allow the perpetrators and profiteers to pass the cost to the victim

sounds like the devil got you as delusional as everyone else who was involved in this gold rush that cost people their slice of the american dream

we dont have to margnilize another human beings to profit there is such a thing as symbiotic relationships that are synergistic

 

[SpasticGramps]

How about when the US central bank is robbing you and giving all your money to foreign banks? FYI- 12 of the 20 central bank's Primary Dealers are Foreign Banks.

Exclusive: The Fed's $600 Billion Stealth Bailout Of Foreign Banks Continues At The Expense Of The Domestic Economy, Or Explaining Where All The QE2 Money Went ZeroHedge

Courtesy of the recently declassified Fed discount window documents, we now know that the biggest beneficiaries of the Fed's generosity during the peak of the credit crisis were foreign banks, among which Belgium's Dexia was the most troubled, and thus most lent to, bank. Having been thus exposed, many speculated that going forward the US central bank would primarily focus its "rescue" efforts on US banks, not US-based (or local branches) of foreign (read European) banks: after all that's what the ECB is for, while the Fed's role is to stimulate US employment and to keep US inflation modest. And furthermore, should the ECB need to bail out its banks, it could simply do what the Fed does, and monetize debt, thus boosting its assets, while concurrently expanding its excess reserves thus generating fungible capital which would go to European banks. Wrong. Below we present that not only has the Fed's bailout of foreign banks not terminated with the drop in discount window borrowings or the unwind of the Primary Dealer Credit Facility, but that the only beneficiary of the reserves generated were US-based branches of foreign banks (which in turn turned around and funnelled the cash back to their domestic branches), a shocking finding which explains not only why US banks have been unwilling and, far more importantly, unable to lend out these reserves, but that anyone retaining hopes that with the end of QE2 the reserves that hypothetically had been accumulated at US banks would be flipped to purchase Treasurys, has been dead wrong, therefore making the case for QE3 a done deal. In summary, instead of doing everything in its power to stimulate reserve, and thus cash, accumulation at domestic (US) banks which would in turn encourage lending to US borrowers, the Fed has been conducting yet another stealthy foreign bank rescue operation, which rerouted $600 billion in capital from potential borrowers to insolvent foreign financial institutions in the past 7 months. QE2 was nothing more (or less) than another European bank rescue operation!

 

[robbiedublu]

How about when the US central bank is robbing you and giving all your money to foreign banks? FYI- 12 of the 20 central bank's Primary Dealers are Foreign Banks.

Exclusive: The Fed's $600 Billion Stealth Bailout Of Foreign Banks Continues At The Expense Of The Domestic Economy, Or Explaining Where All The QE2 Money Went ZeroHedge

People need to go read this article. Another giant step towards the end. How much longer will US and world taxpayers tolerate this shit?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

That's a good question. Gramp's is right, marching on DC to demand action is what this kind of bs requires.

I'm not much of an organizer but I wish for these times to see them in big numbers. I'll do my part as best I can, maybe even provide a little spleef relief for my protesting brethren.

 

[SpasticGramps]

People need to go read this article. Another giant step towards the end. How much longer will US and world taxpayers tolerate this shit?

I've gotten to the point now where I'm not surprised by very much. This was pretty shocking though. It really hammers home who really runs this country. It's certainly not the American people or the American government. When push comes to shove we all serve foreign banking interests. Global fascism in all it's glory.

That's a good question. Gramp's is right, marching on DC to demand action is what this kind of bs requires.

The tide of revolution stirring in the Middle East and Europe will eventually come here as the ponzi unwinds IMO. People are going to have to march together in DC against the central banks and their puppet politicians if they want sanity restored. I believe we will eventually do it out of necessity. All that money going overseas guarantees QEIII to infinity. Bernanke is going to try and fill this global blackhole of toxic debt with US Dollars (read bye bye taxpayer and everyone else). It's getting down to fiat's last breath IMO. Eventually all the printing will distort the market so much that it will tear itself to pieces. Ben's going to drive the bus off the cliff.

All I'm really getting at is having a few MRE's around wouldn't be such a bad idea.

BTW. What you said earlier about morality being subservient to economic needs is very very true.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

We're all riding that ponzi bus and thanks to Gramps for hammering this issue. Nothing short will do a darn thing to change the current dynamics.

 

[joeuser]

We're all riding that ponzi bus and thanks to Gramps for hammering this issue. Nothing short will do a darn thing to change the current dynamics.

It's funny how some times everyone is happy to "hammer the issue". But when other EQUALLY important subjects come up...that effect us as a whole as much or MORE...they're avoided and taboo to discuss. Religion, race, sex, they're ALL part of the "great con" against the people. Yet we avoid talking about them...it's curious. It's probably because the "bankers" have no need of government "protection". Therefore, they're open to HONEST debate...while the others are protected and not ONE "hurtful" word will be spoken about them. It's all part of our programming...from birth.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

i'd take your posts more seriously but then you'd have to

 

[joeuser]

If that sounded like I do, I don't. They bought a lie from their leaders. It's what happens over and over again in history. What can you do? I blame the banks and especially the central banking system for all of this. Banks running the world is a bad deal.

It's not just the banks either. It's really a combination of things brought about by 7 billion independently thinking greedy people.

Government, religion, banking systems...they're all inventions by greedy men trying to get the biggest piece of the pie and the most power they can get. There's no "grand plan" that all these people are following.

I think it boils down to HUGE and powerful corporations buying influence and providing the politicians for a governmental system they they themself have designed and maintain through taxation of the citizens. It's aim nothing more than to aquire something to sell at the lowest possible price and selling it to an ever expanding customer base at the highest profit possible. That is the "corporate/government complex".

Congress is full of either career politicians who right from day one decided that their recess skills could be of value in their role as a professional con man...or ex businessmen placed there to give a certain industry what they want. Congress is bought and paid for as are the SCOTUS judges...who after all are appointed and then confirmed by other bought off political whores.

It's an endless cycle of graft and corruption and each branch is covered by the other. ALL bought off. A crooked Congress makes the unjust law...a crooked President signs it...and crooked judges uphold it's "Constitutionality". How can we win against that?

Military retirees, libertarians, anyone against being groped or fondled at the airport...are now considered a terrorism RISK??? This is Germany all over again...we're GIVING them everything they need to completely control us. After all...they want QUIET, sheeply, consumers of their icrap. So they manufacture an "enemy" so we can give up rights for "the war effort" against whatever the hell they're scaring us with.

"War on Drugs"...so now we can stop you for an unlawful search...so we can break down your door if they THINK they can smell weed burning. They can take your kids away on an anonymous complaint. You can't video tape a police encounter.

WTF? When do you say ENOUGH?

There are signs that collapse is underway all right! And you're cheering as they slowly take away more and more of your rights.

 

[Maria_Vanessa]

I know all about fractional reserve banking...bring in $1,000 in deposits and lend out $9,000 in loans from newly created money.

I don't even have a problem with "strategic default"...UNTIL...I have to help pay for it!!!

When YOU make a decision to default...but you KNOW that all your neighbors are going to end up paying for it...I have a problem with YOU defaulting.

The problem is the government backstop. Get rid of that FIRST.



Thank the lawyers for the "robo signing" shit...first they say...sure, it's legal, start MERS and keep track of everything there. Then the states, tired of the slick lawyers MERS system ripping them off from real estate transfer fees...decided that MERS isn't OK. So NOW there's a big "who owns the note" scandal.

WHY do we have all this debt? Again...it was ALL started during the civil rights movement...when we decided it's OK to pay for the ENTIRE life of select minorities. Welfare has destroyed this country...it's destroying MOST countries. "Entitlements"...the REAL entitlements...are killing us. We're going into debt so a whole class of people can live a "decent" life. I'm not the reason for the debt...you're not the reason... It's the poor living in the inner cities taking MOST of the money that goes to the people. Corporations get welfare too...it too must stop.

You blame "us"...the older generation...but it's not US that screwed you...it's your crooked government...making special deals for some people and not others.



You're so wrong I don't know where to start...WHERE do you get your "information"?

If EVERYONE defaults..it's over...is that what you want? Collapse? That's what everyone stopping paying will do.

Economists? You mean those multi-billionaires who KNOW what's going on? Or those poor misguided people who "know" what's going on...yet can't seem to make any money with that knowledge. They're like "psychics"...they KNOW the future...yet can never seem to benefit from it! You put your trust in the wrong people!

It WAS the lenders responsibility...and they did pretty good...UNTIL...until the government said...GIVE LOANS TO MINORITIES... That's when it ALL changed. Since they didn't have credit, income, or half a brain...now EVERYONE is eligible for a loan! To get the minority poor to qualify, ALL standards were dropped. Even pet birds could get a loan. THAT is what fucked up the mortgage and real estate market!!!

The FRAUD was the fraud of the government backstopping EVERY loan...including NINJA loans. Get the government OUT of business. Get them OUT of ALL loan guarantees.



The investors bought those fucked up mortgage packages for ONE reason...the US government GUARANTEED the loans! Stop telling business how to run their business.

I really think that the poor are going to be our downfall...they're sucking us dry. Our "poor" live better than the upper middle class in most countries. ALL on my dime! On YOUR dime!

THAT's what we need to do...not default...just stop giving away our money to people "I" feel deserve nothing. We're actually GROWING our poor population...every day we have more and more "needy" people to house and feed. THAT is what has to stop.

Our government is screwing us over...so they can get rich. Government and business...are the same people...they write laws for THEIR benefit...not the citizens. THAT is what has to stop. We need to take back government...not stop paying our debts.

Stormfront misses you. Please go back there.

 

[HempKat]

The real problem with the US economy is government and special interests. If politicians vote to spend money they don't have, they should be liable for our debt - not the citizens.

We should hold politicians and lobbyists liable for all debt incurred during their tenure, not the taxpayers. Blaming people who make money and pay taxes for the economic mess makes no sense. They didn't cause it. The top 5 percent of income earners pay over 80 percent of the taxes. The lower 50 percent of income earners pay no taxes, but they are the beneficiaries of government handouts. Is this fair?

You can work your ass off and be penalized for it, or, you can be a lazy bum and get paid for it. That's fair?

I'm tired of the class warfare and blaming successful people. Think responsibility, not entitlements.

Income taxes should be illegal. Sales taxes should be illegal. Huge, useless government should be illegal.

Say what you want, socialism sucks!

The problem is, the special interest groups lobbying the politicians, are the top 5%. They're not getting penalized for being successful. They're the ones funding the lobbyists to influence government so the top 5% might one day not pay a dime. It's not about fairness. If it was then the rich would not be hiring lobbyists to subvert the will of the majority.

Here's a thought, why don't all these rich fuckers hiring the lobbyists just not spend the money they do thru them? The surely spend far more influencing the government in their favor then they do in taxes.

 

[bentom187]

mabey this will help here cause it didnt raise any eyebrows before.
when you read this and they refer to russia,just put the letters USA in their place and youll start to see the similarities.
leon trostsky was a marxist that had a slightley different oppinion,he wanted somthing called constant revolution, to set up the prerequisits for a socialist society,by turning the lower class into a wlfare/subserviant tax payer lower class ,a industrialized /military /govt employed middleclass and the upper class receiving all the wealth and doing the decision making and receiving all the profit,they will unite (distract) us with a common cause wich then we will all be forced to work for.
please discuss how this applies to us or dosnt,because to me it looks like we are getting closer by the day.

 

[Tripp Inmiasov]

The problem is, the special interest groups lobbying the politicians, are the top 5%. They're not getting penalized for being successful. They're the ones funding the lobbyists to influence government so the top 5% might one day not pay a dime. It's not about fairness. If it was then the rich would not be hiring lobbyists to subvert the will of the majority.

Here's a thought, why don't all these rich fuckers hiring the lobbyists just not spend the money they do thru them? The surely spend far more influencing the government in their favor then they do in taxes.

Some may find this interesting:

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

Many of you have completely missed the point.

Most of the contributors to politicians are not really income earners. They are, for the most part, labor and trade unions that represent socialist ideals.

These unions have no place in our society. They are the bloodsuckers of humanity with many ties to organized crime. Their modus operandi is threats, violence and intimidation.

The top 5 percent of income earners don't normally hire lobbyists and most unions get their money without having to earn it.

Choose to believe what you may.