Signs that a collapse is under way.

[DiscoBiscuit]

To me, Palin perception is a sign that mental collapse is under way.

Paul Revere to colonists - "The British are coming!!! The British are coming!!!" (where Paul constitutes what amounts to a victory lap for legacy reasons.)

translated by an effervescent Palin


Raul Revere to the British Army - "You can't take our guns away" (where Palin's gaffe constitutes responses of "Nope" to the dope.)

Let's just entertain that thought for a moment. Instead of Revere be charged with the responsibility of warning Cornwallis and Adams that-and-how the enemy approach, (in addition to very briefly warning colonists the same) he instead was an NRA lobbyist.

While card-carrying Revere wastes time arguing gun-totin'-rights with his captors, he misses the opportunity to escape and warn Cornwallis and Adams of the imminent threat.

Cornwallis splits forces to address both vulnerabilities and ultimately loses the battles of L & C and quite possibly the war.

Today, Palin curtseys to the QOE and Revere is as historically reverent as Benedict Arnold.



Not to mention Bachman's gaff that these battles took place in New Hampshire not Massachusetts, while she's conveniently pontificating to New Hamshirites.


These girls aren't morons. But they think the folks they opportunistically pander to are.

 

[Suspect]

Folks it's time to let the inevitable happen, there is no collapse coming nor is it happening. In a snap shit will be different, just wait and enjoy the last days in hell.

 

[SpasticGramps]

I'm a liberal gramps. Academia isn't a werdy derd to me. But practical application says we have two economic philosophies. One emphasizes the collective and the other emphasizes the individual.

Being a libertarian I would argue that we only have one economic philosophy that emphasizes the transfer of wealth to a very small group of people. Many Libertarians, including me, argue that America is a fascist corporatocracy and that for all practical purposes "liberals" (D) and "conservatives" (R) knowingly or not support the fascist one party state status quo. I know that may sound unsavory or even offensive to the "left" who espouses much disdain for corporate America, but that doesn't change the fact that Libertarians will argue that supporters of the two party system are voting for fascism and the corporatocracy status quo.

Hope you mind the pleasant suggestion you take a moment to put philosophical differences of the past and the present aside and take a look at the practical reality that says contemporary conservative leaders never return a surplus.

I can't just put philosophy aside. It's the prism through which I view the world's problems. Given that, I believe what you consider "practical reality" is actually not practical at all and is in fact collapsing right now.

Can we dodge philosophy for only a moment to recognize we have basically two choices to run our economy. Both follow the same central control you speak of so I don't address that aspect.

I refuse to accept that the two party paradigm that has led us to our demise is the only choice we have.

That's why we have non-partisan entities like CBO. Are they fallible? Certainly. In the absence of non-partisan bean counters, how do you statistically justify "cooking"? The fact that truly politicized stats have been cooked?

IMO, the CBO is a bad joke. They are always wrong by many multiples and their conclusions are based on what assumptions Congress gives them to calculate their conclusions. Classic garbage in, garbage out.

The biggest and most obvious way the budget books are cooked is that unfunded liabilities are not considered debt on the books. The market does consider unfunded liabilities when considering the solvency and credit worthiness of the sovereign state. According to the US Debt clock we have $115 TRILLION dollars of unfunded liabilities. Add that into that graph you posted and the picture becomes quite different. We will never meet those obligations. Austerity will come and they will be taken away because a government that gives you everything can and according to history will take it all away. Another way the books are cooked is the Fannie and Freddie toxic debt that is owned by the government is not on the "official" books. Those are the most obvious ones. Given that we are dealing with compulsive liars I would venture to say that there is much more "dark pool" debt that we do not know about.

What is going to happen is that my generation and younger who are about to get hosed by all this amoral debt are going to revolt and refuse to pay it. This is a global systemic problem. It's happening in Europe and like dominoes falling is starting to spread. For decades we have spent money that has belonged to the younger generations and thought we could get away with leaving them the bill. We promised current generations entitlements at the expense of later generations. That is wrong, unethical, and immoral. The younger generation is starting to realize this and mark my words will default on these obligations. That loss of faith is a major part of the collapse.

 

[HempKat]

All I could really gather was that there were 140mm employed Americans with 83mm or so "not in the work force."

What I'd really like to know is how many of the 140mm employees are government (federal, state, local, city, county, etc.)

Sorry but the numbers aren't set up that way. The pertinent point, which is very clear if you scan thru the document is that the number of government employees has steadily been declining for the past few years. You tried to suggest that the number is actively growing and nearing the point where the vast majority of employed people are government employees. Which simply isn't true. Of course you can do the same thing many of the birthers did when presented with proof their beliefs were wrong and just simply ignore/deny it. Won't make it any more true but it might allow you to keep your beliefs alive, at least within yourself.

Another point, I found that report with google, took me all of 5 seconds and perhaps another minute or two to find the relevent data. Something even a busy person could do if they were really interested in learning something rather then just trying to nitpick what anyone else says.

 

[SpasticGramps]

Case in point on the coming Western world default. The Greeks are trying their best to kick the can down the road and completely sell their people off as debt slaves to the IMF and ECB. However, they have come to an impasse on the second major bailout. The people, especially the young generation are revolting and striking due to the austerity measures that are being imposed by the IMF. They are giving a big middle finger to the system and the banksters.

When Greece defaults the contagion will spread just as when Lehman collapsed except now their is no more backstop. We all go broke together. You can thank the privatized gains and socialized losses of fascism for that.

Greek CDS Surges To All Time Record On Talk Accord For Greek Bailout Faces Major Obstacles

Nobody could have seen this coming (/sarcism). According to RanSquawk, there is "Market talk that accord on new Greek bailout faces major obstacles." Whether true or not is irrelevant: the market sells first. Greek CDS just hit 1,474, +63 bps and an all time record high. Elsewhere, the EURUSD is dropping as the house of cards appears to be finally on the edge.

And the original story from Market News:

PARIS/ATHENS (MNI) - The need for a new Greece bailout deal is growing more urgent, but serious obstacles remain and it is not yet certain that officials will be able to craft an accord satisfactory to all constituents, senior EU and Eurosystem sources told Market News International.

Tuesday's request by German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble for a seven-year extension on Greek debt has crystallized the debate, underscoring the divide between Berlin and the European Central Bank over involving private creditors in any new bailout package.

Despite public declarations last Friday that an agreement in principle had been reached, two major problems threaten to block a deal, the sources said.

One is the highly sensitive issue of private sector contribution. The other is the insistence of European officials and the International Monetary Fund that the Greek parliament pass significant new deficit-cutting measures before EU leaders meet at the end of June as a condition for new money. That task appears Herculean, given the rapidly growing domestic political and social resistance.

In addition to the tens of thousands of protesters surrounding parliament almost daily, Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou also faces increasingly angry opposition from senior members of his own party, both in the cabinet and in parliament.

The anger is directed at new proposals dictated largely by the European Commission, the ECB and the IMF -- the "troika" -- to cut thousands more public sector jobs, raise taxes further and sell off at least E50 billion in state assets over the next four years.

"As we speak, it is not clear whether the Greek government will be passing the medium-term fiscal plan and the privatization program from parliament before the end of the month," said one senior EU source. "And that is a delay which give an excuse to certain European governments to delay the deal."

I say bravo to the Greek proles for standing up against fascism. I say let the defaults commence and lets tear down this corrupt house of cards.

 

[HempKat]

All I could really gather was that there were 140mm employed Americans with 83mm or so "not in the work force."

What I'd really like to know is how many of the 140mm employees are government (federal, state, local, city, county, etc.)

Also your gathering abilities seem to be off.

The number of unemployed persons (13.9 million) and the unemployment rate (9.1 percent) were
essentially unchanged in May. The labor force, at 153.7 million, was little changed over the month.
(See table A-1.)

The picture is bad enough without you needing to fudge the numbers to look even worse then it really is.

 

[HempKat]

4.129 (1) when Clinton leaves
Bush Jr. reduces by .358 (2) = 3.771 (math)

"It has come down significantly since then to the current total of 4.430 million." (4)

So Obama has increased the federal workforce by 659,000 employees in a time of great economic distress? Sounds like a sign of a collapse.

Putting people to work is one way to slow down or end economic distress. Hell seems like it was just a year ago when people were screaming for Obama to just create jobs out of thin air....Oh wait, it was just a year ago they were doing that.

You don't want answers you want something that you can put your particular brand of spin on.

 

[Hydrosun]

Also your gathering abilities seem to be off.

Perhaps that is true, so can you help a stoner out? I'd really like to know total government employees and total work force for the last 30 years. Because I would like to see the percentage of government employees to the total. The BLS site isn't easy for me to navigate.

I'm still not a believer that the percentage of government employees is decreasing. Perhaps the number has declined since 2008, but the number of total employed in this country has also fallen is my gut feeling.

Again please help me find a link or good source for total employed people in this country and the number of those that are drawing their pay check from the public.

Thanks in advance,

 

[HempKat]

I don't believe we've had a "conservative" administration since pre-WWI. Not in the true academic sense of the word. When we engaged in WWI true conservatism died.

This is a very good point and one I wish the majority of Americans could comprehend.

 

[Hydrosun]

Putting people to work is one way to slow down or end economic distress. Hell seems like it was just a year ago when people were screaming for Obama to just create jobs out of thin air....Oh wait, it was just a year ago they were doing that.

You don't want answers you want something that you can put your particular brand of spin on.

I am aware that the vast masses feel that government should create jobs and government jobs are a good thing; however I am not one of them.

I feel that individuals should create businesses if they see an economic need, and those businesses will create jobs.

I do want answers and this is my specific question: What are the Total employed (X) = Private sector employees (Y) + Public sector employees (Z)?

I'd like to know XYZ for the last 90 years.

My spin is that Y is WAY TO HIGH but I can't demonstrate this point very well because my research skills to populate XYZ for the last 90 years sucks ass as you have already pointed out.

 

[Hydrosun]

The picture is bad enough without you needing to fudge the numbers to look even worse then it really is.

Not trying to fudge the numbers. Table A on page four of the pdf you linked to for May 2011 says:

Employed 139,779MM
Not in Work Force 85,620MM
Unemployed 13,914MM

Sub Total 239,313MM

Now what I'd really like to know is of those 139,779MM how many of the got public sector pay checks?

Now if you'd like some spin the percentage of employed individuals as a percentage of total employable individuals is 139/239 or 58.41%

That means that 41.59% of employable Americans are NOT drawing a paycheck.

 

[HempKat]

What I want is a return to the economic freedoms that were protected by the court during the Lochner Era. It worked then and it can work again.

I doubt that because the first thing that would happen is that the courts would rule minimum wage illegal and then employers would start lowering salaries to match the world markets so they could compete on a global scale. Unfortunately when you take away people's money you take away their ability to consume and our whole economy is dependent on consumerism. We would be reduced to the same ability to consume as the average worker in China or India but since either country represents a consumer base at least 3 times greater then the US guess who everyone will cater to first?

 

[HempKat]

Now I get it. Paul Revere is historically revered for warning the British they couldn't take our guns away rather than warning Cornwallis and Adams of and how the British would cometh.

Are you by any chance related to Sarah Palin? Attended the same schools perhaps?

 

[Hydrosun]

I doubt that because the first thing that would happen is that the courts would rule minimum wage illegal and then employers would start lowering salaries to match the world markets so they could compete on a global scale. Unfortunately when you take away people's money you take away their ability to consume and our whole economy is dependent on consumerism. We would be reduced to the same ability to consume as the average worker in China or India but since either country represents a consumer base at least 3 times greater then the US guess who everyone will cater to first?

If that is true why would anyone in the USA get paid more than minimum wage, especially if the job was outsource-able? Shouldn't the employer tell them take minimum wage or we'll send the job over seas?

And why in the hell would Mercedes, Honda, Toyota, BMW, and others open manufacturing plants in the USA and pay more than minimum wage? They could drop those factories in Mexico pay way less and still bring the cars in duty free via NAFTA.

If the minimum wage helps the consumer based economy why don't we just triple or 10x the minimum? Wouldn't that lead to a bunch more goods and services for all Americans?

How did the USA become an industrial and military power prior to enacting minimum wage laws?

I know politicians would love you to believe that their sitting on their asses and producing nothing but rules, regulations, and hurdles makes your life better; but I just can't buy it.

 

[HempKat]

These girls aren't morons. But they think the folks they opportunistically pander to are.

Are you sure? They sure seem like morons to me.

 

[paladin420]

I saw a sign just today. Dog Catcher..opps sorry Animal Controll specialist. Wearin a kevlar vest. Them damn Pitties are packin now.. end-o-world

 

[Hydrosun]

I saw a sign just today. Dog Catcher..opps sorry Animal Controll specialist. Wearin a kevlar vest. Them damn Pitties are packin now.. end-o-world

I hope he had a brand new $40K work truck too, we need to take care of our dog catchers ...opps I mean Government Employees.

 

[Hydrosun]

Government employment declines, but long-term growth is clear

From msnbc.com's Tom Curry: Government is shrinking, at least if you measure it by the number of government workers.
Bureau of Labor Statistics data released Friday showed that employment at all levels of government, federal, state and local, dropped in February by 30,000, to 22,217,000.

Government employment peaked at 22,681,000 in April of 2009, if you omit the temporary hiring the federal government did for the 2010 Census.

The new BLS data shows the contrast between private sector and government employment. The number of private-sector jobs peaked in January of 2008 at 115.6 million, plummeted in late 2008 and 2009, and is still about 7 million below its peak.

Government employment held up better in 2009 and early 2010, but with the waning of federal stimulus money, it has fallen especially in recent months.

The BLS data also shows the long-term trend line: government employment has been growing for decades, no matter which political party controls the Congress, the White House or the majority of state legislatures.

In the past 20 years, total government employment has grown from 18.5 million to today’s 22.2 million, a 20 percent increase, even as the U.S. population has grown by about 22 percent. Government employment is about 17 percent of total employment, just as it was back in 1991.

Taking an even longer view – all the way back to 1951, total government employment was 6.4 million, more than a third smaller than it is today, but the U.S. population was only about half as large then as it is today.

What’s most remarkable about the data is where the growth has occurred: in state and local government.

Federal employment over the past six decades peaked back in the 1988, not including the temporary hires for the 1990 Census. According to BLS data, federal headcount today is about nine percent smaller than in the late 1980s.

In contrast, state and local government has continued to grow for six decades with occasional slowing or plateaus. In 1991 there were about 15.3 million state and local government employees; today there are more than 19 million.

Of course, many of the functions of state and local government are mandated by, regulated by, and partly paid for by the federal government: especially the two biggest items in state budgets: public schools and Medicaid, but also transportation, wastewater treatment, and other infrastructure.

In fiscal year 2008, the last year before Congress enacted the stimulus, federal funds accounted for 26 percent of total state spending, according to the National Association of State Budget Officers. In fiscal year 2010 federal funds accounted for nearly 35 percent of all state outlays. It’s often federal dollars that keep state and local government workers on the job, one reason why the battle over federal spending matters to those workers almost as much as it does to the ones in Washington D.C.

 

[HempKat]

Perhaps that is true, so can you help a stoner out? I'd really like to know total government employees and total work force for the last 30 years. Because I would like to see the percentage of government employees to the total. The BLS site isn't easy for me to navigate.

I'm still not a believer that the percentage of government employees is decreasing. Perhaps the number has declined since 2008, but the number of total employed in this country has also fallen is my gut feeling.

Again please help me find a link or good source for total employed people in this country and the number of those that are drawing their pay check from the public.

Thanks in advance,

Why should I do the work for you? What I posted from BLS is a document not a site. How they're site is set up is irrelevent because the relevent numbers is there in the data contained in the document. I'm an old stoner too so if I can use google so can you. If I can add, subtract, mutiply, divide, etc. to find the info in the data so can you.

I suspect you want to keep looking or look elsewhere or more correctly ask others to look elsewhere for you, because the cold hard data void of opinions doesn't say what you want it to say.

 

[Hydrosun]

So it looks like 22mm of the 140mm employeed Americans draws a check from the public. So 118mm work in the private sector.

It would appear that the 118mm working Americans have to pay for the 100mm not in work force / unemployed, 22mm government employees, and the 65mm or so children and retires.

No wonder why the working man in this country is fed up! Each private sector worker has to support himself and 1.8 others.

Thank god for the working man!