World's Farmers Feel The Effects Of A Hotter Planet

[mad librettist]

grapeman, still avoiding the science, even though you have aready addressed it (should be easy)

grapeman - short on specifics, long on personao attacks and looking for conspiracies.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

And Welches is more technically grown and crafted than Merlot.

 

[mad librettist]

well you know, a grand cru is just welch's with a label.

the only difference is, it's much harder to grow a good table grape than it is to make a grand cru. you just grow the grapes (it's easy!) and when they are ripe you make juice and add a few packets of yeast.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

well you know, a grand cru is just welch's with a label.

the only difference is, it's much harder to grow a good table grape than it is to make a grand cru. you just grow the grapes (it's easy!) and when they are ripe you make juice and add a few packets of yeast.

I like Welches better, not to mention the way it turns my lip purple. I bet it'll ferment on it's own if left in the fridge long enough.

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

this global warming thing has been studied since the 60's and the only people on the planet who choose to believe that we have nothing to do with one or two climate change issues live in a country that said fuck you to the entire world when everyone else signed papers promising to TRY to make it better.

we all know that we hurt the planet doing the shit we do.

some of us are just cool with that to a point that it makes me wanna puke. any asshole with a basic understanding of chemistry can prove to you that we are fucking things up. it takes someone special to disprove 50+ years of worldwide science with nothing but what one corporate sponsored clown has to say.

belief is nothing in the face of facts.

and the fact is being fair to the planet would fuck up the economy.

Agreed.

But are we fucking things up with c02 specifically? I really dont think so. Nature can handle c02 rather well.

How about the biggest nuclear disaster of all time now on going and the silence is deafening.

How about millions of gallons on going of Corexit dumped in the Gulf of Mexico which is a highly toxic and deadly chemical. The oil alone would be consumed by microbes and is now carpeting the ocean floor in some kind of hellish soup.

How about the depleted uranium that helped murder a million Iraqis and will murder for years. The Balkans got a taste of it too and now its Libya's turn. Not to mention the firing ranges all over the place where they casually blast away. The birth mutations are the worst thing i have ever seen.

To mock conspiracies is to deny the total police state being built all around us. Whats the TSA doing down your pants? What is happening to your fourth amendment? What kind of stuff are FUSION centres poking around in? Mobile x-ray scanners with doctored safety reports? Why is it illegal to harvest rain water and sell raw milk in certain states of the US, how are big gas companies just drilling all over Australia and destroying whole areas and water tables for millenia? Straight into private land too.

Then theres the natural disasters




Why Are There So Many Natural Disasters In 2011?


The American Dream
May 27, 2011

So far in 2011, we have seen a record number of tornadoes, unprecedented flooding, rampant earthquakes, disturbing volcanic eruptions and a tsunami in Japan that none of us will ever forget. So why are there so many natural disasters in 2011? Our top scientists seem to be at a complete loss to explain what is happening. It just seems like there is one disaster or emergency after another. Many Americans are getting “disaster fatigue” as the requests to donate money to various relief efforts never seem to end. There has never been a time in recent history when we have seen so many natural disasters compressed into such a short period of time. So exactly what is going on here? Is something causing all of this or is this all one big coincidence?

Well, there is one thing that we can rule out and that is the theory of man-made global warming.

The truth is that the climate has always changed and it will always be changing. But it is not because of anything man is doing. The following are just a few key points to remember as to why the theory of man-made global warming is completely and totally wrong….

*Ice core records have shown that global temperatures rise before levels of carbon dioxide go up. When temperatures rise, it causes a “life bloom” and this causes levels of carbon dioxide to increase.

*Levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere were far greater in the distant past than they are today. In fact, the truth is that our atmosphere actually does not have nearly enough carbon dioxide.

*During periods when advocates of the theory of man-made global warming claimed that the earth was heating up due to human activity, all of the planets in the solar system were actually heating up. The ice caps on other planetswere not melting because of carbon dioxide levels on earth. Rather, all of the planets in the solar system were experiencing higher temperature levels because of the giant ball of fire called the sun that they are moving around.

*A growing body of scientific research shows that changes in the energy output of the sun account for most of the recent heating and cooling that we have experienced.

*Carbon dioxide is one of the basic building blocks of life on planet earth. If there was no carbon dioxide we would all die.

*If we reduce levels of carbon dioxide it will make it harder for crops to grow and could set off a global famine.

*An increasing number of scientists are acknowledging that carbon dioxide has nothing to do with global warming.

*Over 95% of all carbon dioxide emissions would still occur even if humans were not present on Earth.

Yes, the climate is changing. It has always changed and it will always be changing.

But carbon dioxide emissions are not doing the changing.


So now that we have cleared that up, let us get back to all of the crazy natural disasters that we have seen so far in 2011.

Right now, a major tornado outbreak is almost a nightly occurrence in the United States. In April, there were approximately 600 tornadoes across the country. That is the most tornadoes that have ever been recorded in a single month inside the United States. Usually, we only have about 1,200 tornadoes for the entire year.

The massive tornado outbreak in the southeast U.S. at the end of April is being called the worst natural disaster since Hurricane Katrina. One F5 tornado that ripped through the Tuscaloosa, Alabama area was reportedly a mile wide and scientists are estimating that it had winds that exceeded 260 miles an hour. Tuscaloosa looks like a war zone right now.

The tornado that ripped through Joplin, Missouri recently is being called the deadliest single tornado in more than 60 years. It ripped a path of destruction more than a mile wide and more than 6 miles long directly through the city. One British newspaper has some amazing before and after pictures of Joplin that you can view right here.

But it is not just tornadoes that are increasing in frequency and power. Major earthquakes are happening more regularly all over the globe, and the earthquake that struck off the coast of Japan in March was one of the largest ever recorded. That earthquake spawned the worst tsunami that any of us have ever seen.

Unfortunately, that tsunami also absolutely devastated the nuclear power complex at Fukushima. TEPCO is finally admitting that there were at least partial meltdowns at three of the nuclear reactors at Fukushima. It has been more than 2 months since the disaster and TEPCO still does not have the situation under control. Highly radioactive material continues to be pumped into the environment at a frightening pace. Many believe that all of this radiation will ultimately render much of northern Japan uninhabitable.

Greenpeace recently conducted some tests for radiation on samples of seaweed, fish, and shellfish off the coast of Japan, and what they found is extremely disturbing….

The results of the details analysis are back – and we can say that the situation in the ocean along the Fukushima coast is worse than we originally thought.

The new data shows that some seaweed contamination levels are not only 50 times higher than safety limits – far higher than our initial measurements showed – but also that the contamination is spreading over a wide area, and accumulating in sea life, rather than simply dispersing like the Japanese authorities originally claimed would happen.

The news just keeps getting worse and worse.

Now, on top of everything else, the path of Super Typhoon Songda (with sustained winds of 160 mph and gusts up to 195 mph) could take it directly over the Fukushima complex.

Needless to say, that could potentially be a nightmare.

Sadly, more catastrophic seismic events may be on the way. As I have written about previously, there is a growing body of evidence that the “Ring of Fire” is waking up….

*In February, a large earthquake absolutely devastated Christchurch, New Zealand.

*Two massive volcanoes in the Kamchatka region of Russia erupted at almost the exact same moment when the massive magnitude 9.0 earthquake struck Japan back in March.

*One of the most active volcanoes in Indonesia, Mount Karangetang, eruptedjust a couple of hours after the earthquake hit Japan in March.

*The Fuego volcano in Guatemala absolutely exploded back in late February.

*800 meter high ash plumes rose from the Santiaguito volcano in Guatemalanear the end of February.

*A number of other volcanoes along the Ring of Fire have been erupting recently.

*Although not on the Ring of Fire, Hawaii’s Kilauea volcano is also in the Pacific Ocean and it has also been extremely active lately. It shot lava 65 feet into the air a couple months ago.

*2011 is just continuing a trend of increased activity along the Ring of Fire that began last year. It turns out that 2010 was a banner year for volcanic eruptions around the Ring of Fire.

*The west coast of the United States is also along the Ring of Fire. Last year, over 2000 earthquakes struck southern California in just one week.

*A magnitude 8.8 earthquake rattled central Chile in February 2010 and produced a tsunami that killed 524 people. The earthquake in Chile was so powerful that it actually knocked the earth off of its axis and shortened the length of the day.

We have also seen extreme heat and cold in many areas of the world over the past 12 months. Last winter was called “the coldest winter in 1000 years” in some parts of Europe.

Last summer, the hottest summer ever recorded destroyed crops and caused wildfires all over Russia.

Over the past year we have also seen unprecedented flooding in Australia, China and Pakistan. Some of the flooding has been so dramatic that is has been hard to believe that it is actually real.

In the United States, we just experienced one of the worst Mississippi River floods ever. It is being called a flood that only happens “once every hundred years”.

John Michael Riley, an agricultural economist at Mississippi State University, is estimating that the damage to farms alone is going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 2 billion dollars.

In Iceland, a massive eruption of the Grimsvotn volcano a few days ago sent a plume of white ash 18,000 feet into the air. Volcanoes all over Iceland (and all over the world) have been erupting with increasing frequency lately and nobody seems to know why this is happening.

Something really unusual is going on. All of these natural disasters should not be happening at the same time.


Sadly, all of these natural disasters are coming at a time when the world economy is coming apart at the seams. The truth is that almost all of theeconomic news is really bad right now.

The Greek debt crisis continues to get worse, the Japanese economy has plunged into a recession, the United States has never recovered from the lasteconomic crisis and the price of food and gasoline are skyrocketing.

If natural disasters keep happening at the same pace for the rest of 2011, it may be enough to push the struggling global economy over the edge.

The world has become an extremely unstable place, and nobody is really sure what is going to happen next. In times like these, it is imperative that you make certain that you and your family are prepared.

 

[mad librettist]

World's Farmers Feel The Effects Of A Hotter Planet

silver surfer, just because you break your leg does not meant you can't break your arm.

all those things you listed are huge disasters. none if them disprove global warming. all of them need our attention.

as I've reported from the NASA site, co2 is not the only greenhouse gas man is releasing too fast. rice production and beef production are very important contributors of methane, which, by the way, can also be called "carbon emissions".

The best reason to make such an issue of CO2, as opposed to methane, is that CO2 output is projected to rise dramatically if we stay on our current course. Everyone want cars.

 

[grapeman]

Lol, you make it sound like climate scientists solicit donations. Money comes from the taxpayer (lol, you're paying for it) and our federal agencies and departments distribute funding according to law.

come on Disco Man. It's called "Grant" money. And these shyster faux scientists have offices full of people filling out applications to obtain government grants. 100% fact. They compete for the funds. NASA is not funding any weather studies that do not fit with the governments/UN's view to controlling the masses via carbon allocation and tax.

Aside from Hal Lewis, you can go here and get more facts from Dr. Roy Spencer. I'm sure someone will step in and tell me this guy is a kook also. LOL

http://www.drroyspencer.com/

 

[grapeman]

Everyone want cars.

I can never have enough cars.

 

[trichrider]

nasas funding is cut because they have accomplished what they set out to do; positioning sattelites to utilize the earths electromagnetic field to produce energy...energy not available to just anyone.
geoengineering is being discounted, and the patsy is CO2/warming proponents.
you people cite government sponsored studies and opinions while ignoring who profits from the scientific observations...'more studies are needed'...
so the 'black budget' ops so thoroughly documented never existed???

disturbance of the magnetosphere and ionosphere have no relative consequence to changing weather patterns...notice i did not say climate, because no one here on this E-ticket ride can fathom exactly how long it takes to change that...but changing how the earths paltry atmosphere absorbs solar radiation (or reflects it) cannot be a good thing.

in the name of progress man made the atomic bomb, but used it anyway. what notion do you envision that would prevent "scientists" from seeking a far more powerful and devastating weapon???

"Mansanto...better living through chemistry" was just a punchline in a far larger joke.

explain away the insignificance of HAARP and other government/corporate black-ops in this roiling debate or just try to deny the science of Nikolai Tesla...

so...GW may be real(or not), but to reiterate, science is not always used for benevolent purposes...and this certainly seems the case with GW.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

come on Disco Man. It's called "Grant" money.

Does the word grant make the process of applying for funds nefarious? If you operate w/o a fiscal budget appropriation, you apply for grants.

Lets dispel two myths you're attempting to suggest:

If your studies are funded by grants, requesting them isn't unethical. With that kind of reasoning, anyone that requests funds is suspect. Including deniers.

If your studies are funded by grants, awarding them isn't unethical. You'd actually have to have evidence to support your charge. It's your politics that's suggesting wrongdoing because you never have factual example of what you're suggesting.

And these shyster faux scientists have offices full of people filling out applications to obtain government grants. 100% fact.

It's called administration. You should check into it sometime. I guess administration is as equally synonymous with evil as grants.

You know what's funny? Grants are awarded across the board. I guess the bogeyman evaporates when grants are awarded to conservative studies.

They compete for the funds. NASA is not funding any weather studies that do not fit with the governments/UN's view to controlling the masses via carbon allocation and tax.

What you label as view is a host of due diligence and technical processes. They have nothing to do with politics (they're career staffers) and nothing to do with economics other than determining what's the best bang for the buck.

If what you're working on is deemed priority, you may get a grant if you've demonstrated you know how to ascertain the facts. If it's scientific study and you're a shock jock, expecting equity in distribution is nuts.

Do you want to give military technology grants to folks that didn't study ordinance? Lets ask Woody Allen if he's got some insight on improving or replacing the Tomahawk missile.

Aside from Hal Lewis, you can go here and get more facts from Dr. Roy Spencer. I'm sure someone will step in and tell me this guy is a kook also. LOL

http://www.drroyspencer.com/

Nah, we told you that several years ago.

 

[mad librettist]

well I can only read grapeman via other posts thanks to ignore, but I had to check out dr, roy.

from dr. roy spencer's page:

THE MISSING INGREDIENT: WHY 99% OF THUNDERSTORMS DO NOT PRODUCE TORNADOES
I’ve been trying to think of why some might assume a warmer climate would produce more tornadoes, and I suspect the main reason is that tornadoes are produced by thunderstorms, and thunderstorms require warm, moist air for fuel. Ergo, warming should lead to more tornadoes.

Dr Roy is setting up a straw man here. The reason scientists actually predict more extreme weather in a warmer climate is that the system itself has more energy, and when there is more energy in the system overall, weather events will involve greater forces than in a cooler system.

More energy = more activity.


But the troglodytes who tend to cruise pages like that don't want to know what climate science actually says if it isn't wrong.


My guess is Dr. Roy left NASA because they made him sit alone at lunch.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Peer review is self explanatory. If Roy's understanding is less than the macro (what peer review uncovers) his aspects are too narrow to comprehensively understand what he's talking about.

The scientific community is comprised of thousand of people and different areas of expertise. Climate scientist A can't prove nor dispel AGW because climate scientist A is aspect oriented. In other words, individuals specialize in a field too enormous to take on as individuals. But deniers think they can shoot spit wads from the periphery.

What deniers ought to do is create something like the Oral Roberts or Liberty University School of Science. There you would have a science program that appears legit. Only problem, peer review would expose the peeps that believe earth is only ~6000 years old. Peer review would expose the peeps that believe in intelligent design.

If you decide to be a cop, it's a wise thing to lay down a former life of crime.

If you become a scientist, it's a wise thing to lay down the scriptures and pick up whatever instruments are pertinent to your expertise.

You wouldn't want a cancer surgeon running your chemo therapy because you wouldn't want the one that specializes cutting on you to dictate your radiation levels and duration.

But grapeman can do all of the above while simultaneously declaring it's all a hoax.

 

[immaculate]

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/originals/climategate.html

 

[BlueGrassToker]

Much of the media was recently on a tear about global warming and it's responsibility for the recent tornado activity the US has been seeing. Many go on and on about the conventional wisdom of how a warmer system creates the conditions for such weather anomalies.
Of course like most things with the media, they only parrot what they hear from others in their club and repeat it over and over again as if they really had some sort of intelligent reality that others simply don't grasp. The facts bear out the most of these media idiots know squat about most anything at all...and especially global warming issues.

Someone from Fox news was interviewing a guy from the Weather channel. The fox reporter was talking to him as if the assumption was already in place that a warmer global system was responsible for the recent tornadoes. The weather channle guy let him kow right away that he and all the other goons reporting such stuff were way off base and really had no idea what they were talking about. The fact is that the tornadoes have been spawn due to a COLD pattern. We always have moist warm air coming up from the Gulf at this time of year, but what we don't normally have is a winter pattern jet stream that is flowing as it does when a COLD system is in charge. If the weather were warmer and the winter0like jet stream weren't flowing like it is...we would have a more normal show of twisters.

But then...many of you depend on the same conventional wisdom as most the media reporters do.

You know...it could rain rhino scrotum's and it would be attributed to global warming.


What I really love about these global warming discussions are the way some of you call others names. Almost as if you had the superior stance to be able to call people names.
What you need to do is leave your name calling in your back pocket, with your smarts.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Hello, BGT.

Hello, BGT.

Much of the media was recently on a tear about global warming and it's responsibility for the recent tornado activity the US has been seeing. Many go on and on about the conventional wisdom of how a warmer system creates the conditions for such weather anomalies.
Of course like most things with the media, they only parrot what they hear from others in their club and repeat it over and over again as if they really had some sort of intelligent reality that others simply don't grasp. The facts bear out the most of these media idiots know squat about most anything at all...and especially global warming issues.

Someone from Fox news was interviewing a guy from the Weather channel. The fox reporter was talking to him as if the assumption was already in place that a warmer global system was responsible for the recent tornadoes. The weather channle guy let him kow right away that he and all the other goons reporting such stuff were way off base and really had no idea what they were talking about. The fact is that the tornadoes have been spawn due to a COLD pattern. We always have moist warm air coming up from the Gulf at this time of year, but what we don't normally have is a winter pattern jet stream that is flowing as it does when a COLD system is in charge. If the weather were warmer and the winter0like jet stream weren't flowing like it is...we would have a more normal show of twisters.

But then...many of you depend on the same conventional wisdom as most the media reporters do.

You know...it could rain rhino scrotum's and it would be attributed to global warming.

If "most" of anything is fluff, how do you discern what's happening? If you're watching a left leaning show and the facts are bunk, I wouldn't waste my time watching. However, if the facts appear to lean left, (they're just facts.) Same way when facts promote the conservative solution, I can't with any integrity suggest the facts are bunk. Doesn't guarantee I'll jump on the R train but I know like the back of my hand I can't pick and choose what's already considered fact.

While I'm blathering about fact, I'll acknowledge the facts aren't necessarily the bottom line... yet. But facts either support or bunk, depending on our respective outlook. In these cases, facts have to be acknowledged if we want to be taken seriously. After that, I can accept that you and I disagree on the outcome. We each acknowledge fact whether it supports our stripe or not. At least that's what I hope.

The thing about science is that it can't be addressed with a left or right slant. That's not because either of us are wrong. IMO, it's because the solutions diverge far more than the science that overwhelmingly suggests we're in for it.

What I really love about these global warming discussions are the way some of you call others names. Almost as if you had the superior stance to be able to call people names.
What you need to do is leave your name calling in your back pocket, with your smarts.

"Smarts" is best represented by acknowledging professional consensus. Consensus doesn't always pan out but it usually does. If I were a denier, I'd be selective of what I disagree, unless I'm capable of demonstrating error. I can suggest I've got a different outcome all day but I have to be compelling before I get a shot at peer review.

I know I'm not your favorite debate opponent but I can say this with all honesty. Every time the circus clowns come up with another reason to dispel AGW, I actually wish they were right. Excepting masochists, nobody likes pain.

Are you aware that states have already taken on this issue themselves? Gov. Christie just bailed but the rest of NE is in. Midwest states have the same setup, even going as far to analyze costs. Carbon credits are already being traded, they're just not mandated... yet. In the Midwest scenario, customers average a 73 cent per-month increase on their energy bill. You might discount this as a micro element but it's reality as opposed to business saying we'll be fleeced (with zero example.)

What I really love about these global warming discussions are the way some of you call others names. Almost as if you had the superior stance to be able to call people names.
What you need to do is leave your name calling in your back pocket, with your smarts.

I might expect the guy referencing scrotums to have a little more skin. I know what you're suggesting on the name calling. Here, I've seen the typical Nazi, facist, racist and feminization accusations.

I'll work with ya. I'll borrow the above comment segment and flag the name callers with your thoughts. As far as the Nazi, facist, homo, racist (whatever) I can reflect on the past to suspect where it'll commence.

 

[mad librettist]

Someone from Fox news was interviewing a guy from the Weather channel.

lol this should only EVER be the beginning of a joke.



btw, meteorologists are not climate scientists. they are tv announcers.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Yeah, Coleman used to spout meteorology like a scientist. Turns out he's not even a meteorologist. He's a journalist. Doesn't mean he can't squeak but it doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about.

Simplicity

I before E except after C...

Don't say that after the 4th grade, peeps. Kids get it simple until they're able to grasp complexity.

*********************************************

So boss, how do we feign complexity when peer review comprises 97%?

We use the other 3.

You mean just 3 people?

No, dumb ass. The other 3%.

But boss, they're already on the payroll!

Precisely, Geeves.

But boss, that's 97 to 3!

Yep. Never underestimate public noise nor my microphone.

But Boss, 97:3 is very likely a mirror of the macro!

We're not going to win this game Geeves, we never do. Just check our record unless you dispute the facts. We're just stalling as long as we can. Now shut up and get back to work!

But boss, I'm a day laborer and it's dark outside!

Shutup, Geeves!... uhh, er uh, Live from radio hell, it's the Ed And Geeves Show with your hosts Ed and Geeves! The subject tonight is AGW. Uh, I mean the AGW hoax, hehe. Let's go to the phones...

 

[Cannabologist]

Did I mention how much I hate lying science deniers...

 

[grapeman]

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/originals/climategate.html

Well I read all 30+ or so pages. You won't get disco or ml to read them, that's for sure. I have heard or read snippets of a lot of the information herein, but having it served up in one document that totally shows the CRU, NASA and the IPCC for being the fraud they are was very convenient.

But remember who you are debating. these fellows will not comment on Hal Lewis. One in particular shows his immense ignorance by assuming that if someone was interviewed on a network other then msnbc somehow the information or the interviewer are wrong.

That is a long paper detailing how UN-SCIENTIFIC and FRAUDULENT the research of the IPCC and the CRU and NASA have been over the last several decades, complete with facts and figures showing the fraud of the GW crowd.

How much would you bet that ml or disco will never even read the attached 30+ page fact based report detailing the fraud of GW?

 

[immaculate]

Their realization can only come through themselves.

Though one wonders at the inability of people to accept fact even if it goes against their common (mis)conceptions. Some truths are hard to swallow, yes, but evidence is evidence, facts are facts, and we must shape our understandings accordingly.