Bonemeal replacement?

[lightmove]

Hi!

Does anybody know, is Hoof and Horn Meal siutable replacement of Bonemeal?

 

[CC_2U]

Fish Bone Meal (5-16-0)

 

[bakelite]

Hoof and Horn meal 12-2-0 (NPK). Not enough Phosphorus to replace bone meal. It looks to be on par with feather meal in both composition and release rate (i.e. high nitrogen, slow release).

As for a substitute for bone meal, there is fish bone meal as CC pointed out. Also high P guano and soft rock phosphate are good sources of Phosphorus.

 

[GoneRooty]

Does soft rock phosphate break down quick enough to be of any real help? I've heard that it's really to slow to be of much good for a 3month cycle. Not sure though.

 

[Scrappy4]

Does soft rock phosphate break down quick enough to be of any real help? I've heard that it's really to slow to be of much good for a 3month cycle. Not sure though.

I can't tell you an exact breakdown rate, but will add you can powder it in an old coffee grinder. I do this when i add it to teas. I imgagine that in of itself has to improve breakdown times.....scrappy

 

[GoneRooty]

Good point on the powdering, and after thinking about it, can powdered soft rock phosphate really by any slower to break down than bonemeal. I mean bone is some pretty hard stuff, so if it can break down in my soil mix, I don't see why SRP wouldn't. And it makes since, if you make the particles of anythings smaller, it would be easier to break down. Maybe it's just too early to be taking bong hits and trying to think rationally.

 

[CC_2U]

Rock phosphate takes years and years before any Phosphorus is available.

Soft rock phosphate (SRP), it is claimed by many, provides Phosphorus over a year or so meaning that some is available quickly and more is made available for the next several months. The specific one that I buy around here states something like Phosphorus 24% and Available Phosphorus 2.3% - something close to those numbers.

One thing you might want to figure in if you choose SRP as a Phosphorus source and that's the Calcium levels in this manufactured amendment which is around 22% in its elemental form, i.e. not Calcium Carbonate.

That' probably why one brand name for SRP is "Calphos" - I'm not recommending this product but just used their name to illustrate the Calcium component.

HTH

CC

 

[GoneRooty]

Here's a link that talks about soil amendments from a sustainable approach.
http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/altsoilamend.html
They suggest adding rock phosphates to your compost to help break them down before using them. That sounds like a pretty good idea. As for my soil mix, I'll just stick with bone meal and Guano for now, but have been thinking of trying fish bone meal.

 

[CC_2U]

As for my soil mix, I'll just stick with bone meal and Guano for now, but have been thinking of trying fish bone meal.

The fish bone meal distributed in the PNW is ground to a very consistent size - like table salt.

Very little odor (unlike fish meal) and it works. It runs $29.00 for a bag vs. $15.00 for SRP.

High P bat guano runs about $33.00 per bag for one label and around $35.00 for another label.

CC

 

[guest2012y]

I like fish bone meal. Works well and smells...good. I also like it's four or more month breakdown rate.
Not part of some land based mass produced slaughter trip that involves the exposure to chemicals associated with the entire process of such land based food animals.

 

[mad librettist]

Not part of some land based mass produced slaughter trip that involves the exposure to chemicals associated with the entire process of such land based food animals.

actually, it's part of an ocean based disaster and slaughter of the worst kind.

At least on land we are eating only from the first few trophic levels.

At sea, we eat the equivalent of tigers.

 

[guest2012y]

actually, it's part of an ocean based disaster and slaughter of the worst kind.

At least on land we are eating only from the first few trophic levels.

At sea, we eat the equivalent of tigers.

Come on now,the whole beefy train meat yard is full of crap they spray and inject.
They spray pesticides and herbicides around the facilities,and who knows what else on the cow. Not up to date on my antiboiotics and other injectables that go into cows/pigs,but I'm sure it's not as clean and wholesome fresh as the sea man.
At least fish bone is a by product that has less exposure to such things.

 

[MrFista]

Bunch of farmers here use soft rock phosphate for pasture grasses. They keep buying it so it must work. (Many of) our farmers are very smart cookies.

 

[mad librettist]

Come on now,the whole beefy train meat yard is full of crap they spray and inject.
They spray pesticides and herbicides around the facilities,and who knows what else on the cow. Not up to date on my antiboiotics and other injectables that go into cows/pigs,but I'm sure it's not as clean and wholesome fresh as the sea man.
At least fish bone is a by product that has less exposure to such things.

That's the common argument, often repeated by salmon-eaters who think they are saving a tree by not eating cow.

It's based, in the end, on the principle of "If I can't see it it isn't a problem".

It's a big, big problem. And it comes down, quite simply, to trophic levels. Cows are primary consumers, pigs primary/secondary, chickens are primary/secondary, making us the 3rd trophic level. From the sea, we gladly chow down on 5th trophic level organisms and pat ourselves on the back for not eating meat. That makes us the 6th and sometimes even the 7th trophic level when we eat big fish.

The "byproduct argument" - come on capt, you have to see that this applies equally to pork blood or cow bones.

 

[vonforne]

Let us not forget plant based solutions also. Comfrey for one. And when JK comes by I am sure he will have a few more suggestions.

And gentlemen it does not involve the food chain above or below sea level. You can cultivate the plant organically with not pesticides and such.

V

 

[mad librettist]

And gentlemen it does not involve the food chain above or below sea level. You can cultivate the plant organically with not pesticides and such.

well when we rely on products from the food industry we are sleeping in the same bed. It's easy to dismiss them as byproducts, but remember that the by-catch and by-product market can often keep an operator from going under. Then they are out next year again with their trawlers.

I've seen the Neptune's Harvest company's name on a petition for the right to kill dogfish without limits, because it "threatens the fishing industry". The biggest threat to the fishing industry is the fishing industry. They have fished out a trophic level and the dogfish is moving up according to the laws of Nature. So they want to fish out the dogfish (and sell it to you hydrolysed).


I still buy Neptune's but I have no illusions about doing a good turn.

 

[guest2012y]

Pick your poison,I like fish bone meal.
Food grade stuff despite whatever levels of trace chemicals can be found.
That cow and pig shit has a Texas Chainsaw vibe to it man...bad joo joo. Bathed in roundup and the who knows part.

 

[mad librettist]

Bathed in roundup and the who knows part.

I got some bad news...

Everything drains to the ocean.


I agree, pick your poison but let's hear no one but Jay and the other plant users talk of being responsible stewards.

 

[303hydro]

Jamaican Bat Guano.

 

[vonforne]

Pick your poison,I like fish bone meal.
Food grade stuff despite whatever levels of trace chemicals can be found.
That cow and pig shit has a Texas Chainsaw vibe to it man...bad joo joo. Bathed in roundup and the who knows part.

Since we are on the subject...... let us not the warehouse handlers and their ´Protection´methods. Most we would not want to know about.

I would have to follow CC1 on this. The fish bone meal would be classified as the lesser of two evils. IMHO

I grew up in the Midwest and both my Grandparents were farmers. One cows and one cows and pigs. You do not want to know what we did to them.

V