Best Yield Organic Recipe?

[Blaze215]

Hi IC,
So the question I am presenting to you now is how do you grow your organic herb for the best yield possible? I currently only flower with a 1k HPS but will be adding a second one along with two 4x4's to go beneath each.

I took a look at the Moonshine Mix thread which is pretty bad ass but I get the feeling that you are giving up yield for taste? I might be off on that and if I am please feel free to correct me.

What I am looking for is something that doesn't take too long to upkeep since I would ideally only like to spend 30 minutes per day (at the most) on my grow.

Your guidance is definitely appreciated,

215

 

[Lazyman]

Oh this could turn into a flaming hot thread, but I'll throw in some gas: Organic grows are not only best suited to outdoor use, but because the elaborate soil web is slower to digest and uptake nutrients, almost always loses out in yield against chems.

Yes, there are organic growers who can get the same yields as salt fert growers, but they are fairly rare. Both take experience to dial in right, and the organic guys love to posit that their soil is perfect and requires nothing all season. But getting to that stage takes years.

With salt ferts, nute uptake is practically instantaneous, and though it requires careful measuring, dosing and practice, the yields will typically be about 10% higher. Getting good flavor out of salt grows isn't hard at all, but you do have to remember to flush.

Oh and for anyone that says salt grows are expensive, I spend $7 per month on nutes for 16 lights in flower and 3 in veg. 6 bags of earthworm castings costs $108 and lasts about a month as well.

Someone post up some links to previous organic vs salts threads so we don't have to rehash the whole lot eh?

 

[mad librettist]

Oh this could turn into a flaming hot thread, but I'll throw in some gas: Organic grows are not only best suited to outdoor use, but because the elaborate soil web is slower to digest and uptake nutrients, almost always loses out in yield against chems.

Yes, there are organic growers who can get the same yields as salt fert growers, but they are fairly rare. Both take experience to dial in right, and the organic guys love to posit that their soil is perfect and requires nothing all season. But getting to that stage takes years.

With salt ferts, nute uptake is practically instantaneous, and though it requires careful measuring, dosing and practice, the yields will typically be about 10% higher. Getting good flavor out of salt grows isn't hard at all, but you do have to remember to flush.

Oh and for anyone that says salt grows are expensive, I spend $7 per month on nutes for 16 lights in flower and 3 in veg. 6 bags of earthworm castings costs $108 and lasts about a month as well.

Someone post up some links to previous organic vs salts threads so we don't have to rehash the whole lot eh?

I doubt you are surpassing the production per square foot of scrog trellis I am about to pull off using organic soil and a living mulch. We might as well debate scrog vs. other methods, since that probably plays a bigger role than chem vs organic soil.

My drip feed system is alive.


I would rate the difficulty of what I am doing at 2 out of 10. My houseplants are much more challenging.

 

[CC_2U]

It would be nice to define some terms. What passes for 'organic' in the world of grow store bullshit wouldn't qualify as 'transitional' under any certification agency.

Just to repeat - an OMRI sticker on a bottle of crap does not have anything to do with 'organic'

As far as one being easier than the other - a pretty weak case. Masturbation is easier and more immediate than coitus but offers a different skill set and you end up with different results.

"He said with a grin as he wiped off his chin - "If my ear had some hair I would screw it!""

Touching anecdotes from America's heartland.

CC

 

[mad librettist]

As far as one being easier than the other - a pretty weak case. Masturbation is easier and more immediate than coitus but offers a different skill set and you end up with different results.

I think how challenging a grow is to begin with affects a grower's choices down the line. When your grow is easy you have more energy and treasure to address challenges. A grow that requires constant attention is a major drag on one's life, and either your life or your grow suffers. How many micro grows get abandoned or go to shit because the cab is a bitch to open?


Growing organic is more like getting head than coitus. Maybe it takes more complex maneuvers to get there, but after that it's just fun and not much effort.

 

[Lazyman]

I doubt you are surpassing the production per square foot of scrog trellis I am about to pull off using organic soil and a living mulch. We might as well debate scrog vs. other methods, since that probably plays a bigger role than chem vs organic soil.

My drip feed system is alive.


I would rate the difficulty of what I am doing at 2 out of 10. My houseplants are much more challenging.

Well few people use yield per square foot as a measure of efficiency, it's pretty much always Cervantes' .5 gram per watt/30 days flowering, but I digress.

I agree that growth methods probably affect yield more than the type of ferts used, as a healthy plant is a healthy plant, is a healthy plant, right? Lighting probably has more to do with yield than anything else, but I would say genetics are a close second.

Are you using your res as a sort of organic tea brewer? How are the drippers holding up (clog-wise?) I tried that for a couple runs on a previous grow and hated it, the reservoir maintenance and cleaning was abominable.

 

[mad librettist]

Yes a healthy plant is a healthy plant. But I wonder how our respective indoor gardens would fare in a contest to see who resists a black aphid invasion the best. Both gardens would be inoculated with black aphids in flower, no spraying allowed organic or otherwise.

blumats are made to take pure water only. I don't even dechlorinate, because at the rate it's applied my mulch is taking care of it. I have no visible bleaching at the drip line.

I'm very happy with the system, enough that it makes me cocky about my upcoming yields.

grams/watt/30 days? That's not very useful sounding. I have only so much space. If space were not an issue I might be concerned about grams/watt though.

 

[soil margin]

Getting good flavor out of salt grows isn't hard at all, but you do have to remember to flush.

I really have to disagree with this. I have ran side by side grows using lemon kush and purp urkle where one was fed AN and other 'organic' ferts. Compared to the other set which were fed nothing but water, compost, molasses, kelp, etc.

Both were flushed for 10 days before harvest and the smell/taste between the two is not even close to comparable. I find the chlorophyll-ish taste/smell remnants to be much more noticeable when running chem ferts. Maybe it's just personal preference, but I think truly organic smoke is in a class of it's own.

 

[Scrappy4]

Hi IC,
So the question I am presenting to you now is how do you grow your organic herb for the best yield possible? I currently only flower with a 1k HPS but will be adding a second one along with two 4x4's to go beneath each.

I took a look at the Moonshine Mix thread which is pretty bad ass but I get the feeling that you are giving up yield for taste? I might be off on that and if I am please feel free to correct me.

What I am looking for is something that doesn't take too long to upkeep since I would ideally only like to spend 30 minutes per day (at the most) on my grow.

Your guidance is definitely appreciated,

215

For ease of use, I recommend any of the heavily amended soil mixes, or even super soil, as most can be water only.

For larger yields the same rules seem to apply. Longer veg time, more light, and so on.

On a less scientific note, I pull somewhere around a lb of primo bud in 9 sq ft. Give or take and depending how much i trim for the hash maker. Most of my grower friends pull much less in more sq footage, but it seems they are constantly battling bugs, and deficiencies.

If yields were my primary concern I think I would stick to hydro, mostly for the fast grow rates. For simplicity it would be amended soil.

Do you plan on a commercial grow? Scrappy

 

[CC_2U]

Maybe it's just personal preference, but I think truly organic smoke is in a class of it's own.

In the real world of high-dollar agriculture products, the soil composition is always given credit as a major reason for the high quality.

Kona coffee is a good example. One of the world's most expensive coffees you can buy. The genetics aren't anything special - the original plants were cuttings imported from Brazil in the early 19th Century.

If it were only genetics then Brazilian coffee would be of the same high quality as the plants in the Kona District, right?

The growers in Kona credit the high mineral levels in the soil (volcanos) as well as specific weather patterns.

Again - as we all know, it's completely and totally different in the world of growing cannabis. All rules of botany, biology, chemistry have to be tossed out in order to buy into the whole grow store methodology.

Big feat, eh?

CC

 

[VerdantGreen]

its definitely true that methods influence yield more than chem vs organic.

pack the buds in and use as much soil as you can. find a mix that your plants are happy in and that you can reliably buy/make/acquire consistent ingredients for and tweak the main N and PK sources for each strain by research, trial and error. take notes.

sorry, nearly forgot the sex metaphor -
growing with organic soil is a bit like making love to a beautiful woman....

VG

 

[spadedNfaded]

Perhaps my pallet is beaten to shit, but I've run Chem soil, organic soil and chem hydro and have yet to see a humongous brag-inducing difference between taste. I just don't see it. I've run multiple strains in a blood/bone/kelp/GS mix as well as hydro and they always look, yield and smell better in my hydro setup. To each his own...

I'm not saying im a pro gardener, now, just to be clear. I've only been growing a few years.

- SubN

 

[CC_2U]

growing with organic soil is a bit like making love to a beautiful woman....

Obviously I should have dated more in my youth................

 

[true grit]

Sub's supersoil in 7-10g pots at around 30-35% per pot. Gave me the best tasting organic nugs even with the mishaps from not being able to dial/adjust. Just a good basic mix. I'll be trying his new coco mix soon.

 

[Lazyman]

I've done side by side grows as well (documented on the 8KW grow in my sig) and found that once cured, the end products were identical, there was just less of the organic hydro side to smoke.

A lot of it comes down to experience. I've been a commercial grower for 9 years now, and have harvested many grows and countless plants, using every system and nutrient type you can imagine. My herb is smooth, burns to clean white ash, and is very smelly and flavorful. Even my organic buddies can't find a thing to complain about with it.

 

[Lazyman]

Yes a healthy plant is a healthy plant. But I wonder how our respective indoor gardens would fare in a contest to see who resists a black aphid invasion the best. Both gardens would be inoculated with black aphids in flower, no spraying allowed organic or otherwise.

Yeah you might have me there, my plants are as healthy as can be, but they are inoculated regularly with applications of certain chemicals to prevent PM and bugs.

blumats are made to take pure water only. I don't even dechlorinate, because at the rate it's applied my mulch is taking care of it. I have no visible bleaching at the drip line.

That's a bit of a reach, I use chem ferts with Blumats (over 200 of them) and RO water. You just have to be selective about what you put into the tank. I don't have the time or ability to hand feed every plant in flower, and one mix wouldn't do them all justice.

I'm very happy with the system, enough that it makes me cocky about my upcoming yields.

grams/watt/30 days? That's not very useful sounding. I have only so much space. If space were not an issue I might be concerned about grams/watt though.

It's the gold standard as far as efficiency measurements go. For an 8 week strain, this should mean 1 gram per watt of flowering light in 60 days. Longer strains should be even higher. Closest I've got was .87 gpw, but for a non-CO2 grow that's a damn good number. At a certain extreme (like one of Heath's grows that hit 3gpw) it's actually less efficient, as the same space would have yielded better with MORE lighting. That grow was an 8X8 lit with a single 1KW, and got ~3.5#. With the standard 4KW over that garden it should have produced at least 6#, but probably more.

 

[pinecone]

It's the gold standard as far as efficiency measurements go.

If your space is the limiting factor in the sense that you could get a higher yield with more space and the same amount of light then grams per watt it isn't a very good standard with which to judge your efficiency.

Pine

 

[mad librettist]

Best Yield Organic Recipe?

interesting.

Chem is supposed to be easy, but you have to resort to feeding via blumats because you don't have time to do it by hand. They are meant for pure water and I can't imagine trying to keep 200 of them clean with anything but.


my plants are fed by a mulch.


here's a good measure: grams per man-hour of labor.

 

[soil margin]

Perhaps my pallet is beaten to shit, but I've run Chem soil, organic soil and chem hydro and have yet to see a humongous brag-inducing difference between taste. I just don't see it. I've run multiple strains in a blood/bone/kelp/GS mix as well as hydro and they always look, yield and smell better in my hydro setup. To each his own...

I'm not saying im a pro gardener, now, just to be clear. I've only been growing a few years.

- SubN

Well another big factor to keep in mind is the method of smoking. I have a hard time telling the difference between the soil and hydro version of a strain when smoking through a bong or other water filtered piece.

However, when using a clean or semi-clean dry piece like a small glass pipe, I find the flavor, harshness and characteristic of the smoke to be drastically different between even chem and org soil versions grown side by side. Another thing I find that helps is when smoking a bowl, take a breath of fresh air to finish the hit instead of filling your lungs 100% with smoke. This helps me get a lot more of the taste/flavor of the bud.

 

[Blaze215]

A lot of it comes down to experience. I've been a commercial grower for 9 years now, and have harvested many grows and countless plants, using every system and nutrient type you can imagine. My herb is smooth, burns to clean white ash, and is very smelly and flavorful. Even my organic buddies can't find a thing to complain about with it.

This is a fascinating conversation and I really have to thank all of you folks for receiving the benefit of your expertise.

Lazyman:
Your name doesn't do you justice partner. I just had a look at your Headbanger Thread and it freakin blew me away my friend. It is truly a work of art.

If you had a 8x5 space to flower with along with a 4x4 veg room how would you use it?

What is the soil formulation & feeding schedule?

Keeping in mind plant numbers with lower being better.