Cant find worm castings:( going chemical with my first outdoor grow.

[iGrow 4 Me]

Hey guys! Thanks for checkin out the thread. Im having some trouble finding supplies for my grow so im just guna go with the chemise i didn't want to but o well as long as i get some bud but all of my studying was on organics and i never read about chemical feeding and i was wondering what you guys would use or wht you use for your outdoor grows? or what you would recommend for me as a newbie? Thanks for the comments!

 

[TACOE]

Dont mess with the chemicals dude. You were headed in the right direction with organics. You don't need earthworm castings. Compost will do the trick.

5p peat
3p perlite (or rice hulls, or pumice, or calcined DE, or turface)
2p compost
that's your substrate
then throw in DOLOMITE lime @ 1 cup per cubic foot.
then throw in kelp meal @ .5 cup per cu. ft.

(You could also use 2p topsoil and 3p peat instead of 5p peat)

All of the above SHOULD be source-able, just call around to save yourself some driving. Try hardware stores, garden centers. Stay away from hydro stores

try to get some rock dusts - rock phosphate, greensand, granite meal, azomite.. whatever you can get.. it certainly wont hurt, and if you reuse your holes, they will be even better the next year.
(if you go to a place that sells or cuts stone, ask if you can get sweepings... you may have to do the sweeping)

You are also likely going to want to have fertilizers in your mix.. Blood and bone work great but WILL attract animals.. if they have time to compost that will be better. If not you can use plants that you will find in the wild: alfalfa (can buy as meal at feed stores), stinging nettle, comfrey. You could also use guanos, or dehydrated chicken manure is great (and you may get by just using chicken shit)
Basically, you will want something with hi N, something with hi P, and then as much K as you can get in.. which can be difficult with organics. The kelp has K, so does green sand, and granite meal has a shit ton of K but very slow release (which is good)

You could use something like Biotone from espoma


It would be hard to believe that you can't source this stuff.

If you can't, however, you are certainly not SOL...
check out manitoids methods.. he uses lasagna layering (and very well). Research Esther Dean's method, she is one of the pioneers of lasagna layering.

many roads to take. any questions.. keep em coming

but please, don't use chemicals, especially on land that isn't yours.

if it is your land, still don't use em, and in that case.. it will be alot easier to work with. (you could do top feedings.)

make sure you mulch.. heavily! straw, hay, compost... whatever.. use something that covers all mulch bases - keeps warmth and moisture in, suppresses weeds, but also CONTAINS some small amount of nutrients

 

[TACOE]

also.. order up some worms NOW... so that next year, you will have plenty of castings. worms are fun and easy.

 

[michael68]

TACOE just supplied you with some great info dude.

Good luck.

 

[iGrow 4 Me]

I really really really wana go organic ill see what i can do. i do want to look into worms for next year though

 

[NickMode]

I had alot of trouble findng EWC also. But i searched around alot of places and finally found a place with 15pound bags for $18

 

[bentom187]

Hey guys! Thanks for checkin out the thread. Im having some trouble finding supplies for my grow so im just guna go with the chemise i didn't want to but o well as long as i get some bud but all of my studying was on organics and i never read about chemical feeding and i was wondering what you guys would use or wht you use for your outdoor grows? or what you would recommend for me as a newbie? Thanks for the comments!

go to wallyworld buy a bunch of nightcrawlers, there filled to the brim with wormpoop,and you could make a day of fishing out of it.

 

[iGrow 4 Me]

go to wallyworld buy a bunch of nightcrawlers, there filled to the brim with wormpoop,and you could make a day of fishing out of it.

luckly i like to fish i might try to use that for my tea lol

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

Hey IGrow4me

Its sernedipity. Youre a lucky guy. I have a different view of organics than Tacoe and others, but i guess thats what makes the world go around huh?. No offense to anyone that has a different view.

In a guerilla setting, I feel organics are problematic for a number of reasons. First, they attract animals that will dig up the plants. Secondly, loose airy organic soil looses moisture through evaporation at almost 2x the rate as clay based soils.
Further, i would argue that while a seasonal grow is 5 months long, 50-60% of the growth occurs in a 45 day period between mid july and the end of august when the plant can double in size. How does one pour on the nutes to maximize that growth potential if using slow acting organic ferts as opposed to water solubles. Then on August 15 or so, its a complete reversal of ferts. If i use a water soluble which only only last a week or so, then changing gears to bloom ferts isnt a big deal. Organic nutes and soil cant be turned on a dime.

If i go to my plants and see that i have a defieciency, if i use a water soluble, my problem is fixed and the next day my plants look green and healthy again. Organic apps take longer to impact.

Finally, its just a fact that yield and growth is much less with organic growing. Its why chemicals overtook the agriculture industry. The reason organically grown food is more expensive is because it is much more labor intensive and yeild is less per acre. YES, a very skilled organic grower that is highly knowlegeable and knows his strain MAY be able to achieve a yield that chemicals can produce, but generally, organics means less weed, just as it means less corn or beans or tobacco anything else grown organically.

I havent been able to tell one bit of difference in taste of weed grown organically and with chems. I have a blueberry mom that i used to grow both ways and if i got the bags mixed up, i couldnt tell which was which.

 

[Aksala]

Hey IGrow4me



Finally, its just a fact that yield and growth is much less with organic growing. Its why chemicals overtook the agriculture industry. The reason organically grown food is more expensive is because it is much more labor intensive and yeild is less per acre. YES, a very skilled organic grower that is highly knowlegeable and knows his strain MAY be able to achieve a yield that chemicals can produce, but generally, organics means less weed, just as it means less corn or beans or tobacco anything else grown organically.

I actually find this to be very misleading......imo organic gardening takes WAY less knowledge than chemical gardening.

The biggest thing I've learned from switching to full organics is that you have to prepare your soil months in advance...or at the very least one month. Its kinda like field of dreams....if you build it...they will grow.

You really don't even have to feed them at all imo to have a very healthy looking plants as long as the mix is "teaming with microbes" (awesome book btw). My most potent strain will yield 2 ounces consistently in a 3 gallon rubber pot with just pure h2o once its transplanted. I of course usually use compost teas and molasses as as a booster but in reality you don't even have to...the plants do ok as long as the water is pure.

Organics once you get the basics down is soooooo easy. I no longer even check my ph....my plants always look awesome and the colors they turn at the end of flowering are so awesome...

I would get so frustrated when I was using chemical ferts because every single day I seemed to have to readjust the ph and constantly having to add cal/mag ect...and then guess whats wrong this time....sometimes my plants would get burnt then you have to flush ect....it was a huge burden.

I work fulltime...growing is a hobby for me...i don't have the time to babysit my plants like that.

Nowadays I just make sure I have a couple 35 gallon totes full of my mix sitting and waiting to be unleashed.

If you want organics to work....

1. build a very healthy mix...its easy to do...I use happy frog as my base because its fairly cheap and has a decent mix of good living stuff in it already...then just add some ewc....rice hulls....dolomite lime..kelp meal ect...you really can't add too much with organics....water thoroughly and let sit.

2. make sure you are using good water..chemicals of any kind kill the biology in your soil...this is a huge one....why take the time to build this great place for all these organisms to live if you are just gonna kill them with bad water...never understood the half chemical half organic guys...just doesn't make alot of sense to me..counter productive.

3. start a worm bin..they are fun as hell to watch in action. I remember the first time I lifted up a banana peel in my bin and saw the huge mass of worms just devouring that thing....awesome.

4. remember that you aren't really feeding your plants...you are feeding all the micro organisms so that they can feed your plants. create a happy micro herd and your plants will show you what they can do.

OK i'm done....i'm no expert on organic gardening by any stretch...but in the short time i've been doing it i've been blown away at the simplicity of it.

Maybe CC can stop by this thread and drop some real knowledge...Im still learning....will be for a long long time.

Oh ya...first order of business...go buy Teaming with Microbes.

Best advice I've gotten on this site was to read that book...I now poke my nose in it atleast a couple times a week.

 

[Aksala]

I realize I regurgitate alot of the stuff tacoe had already said...sorry bout that tacoe...

I get so excited talking about organics these days though...

I honestly don't know why anyone would use chemicals.....

 

[Bud Sweat]

the topic of organics vs chem is also an issue of quality vs quantity IMO. Commercial agricultural ops use chems because they are economical, produce quick results and overall tend to outway the yield of organics. Keep in mind these are large scale Ops though...i think what was said about having a strain and your organics dialed in CAN provide better results than Chems in both quality and quantity. It really all comes down to what your goals are and personal preference.

Having done a few guerilla grows, i can say organics are tough in this setting due to the wildlife factor and difficluty of fert. applications. For example, id rather carry a bottle of ready to go chem fert to my plot than have to brew a tea and lug that out to the spot. Of course you can always topdress with solubles, but you may run into the issue of attracting wild life.

Not trying to throw any fuel on the fire of organics vs chem here, theres just more than a couple of things to consider based on your situation. If i was growing in my backyard, organics all the way - guerilla style it doesnt work for me. To each their own though, all that matters is a good clean product come harvest.

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

I actually find this to be very misleading......imo organic gardening takes WAY less knowledge than chemical gardening.

I dont intend to mislead Alaska so i apologize if i have.... but lets debate your basic premise. I see it as problematic that you dont seperate guerilla growing from outdoor growing. I would grow organic if my plants were in the back yard, but their not. Theyre 1/2 a mile from civilization and just a few yards away from a wild hog path/animal path and a wild hog can smell chicken poop and bone meal from 2 miles away.

1. that it takes less knowledge to grow organically: youve said yourself that you have to prepare a year in advance. Even if your lucky enough to have an exact formula of ingredients to mix, you have to carry them through the bush to add them. And remember, you cant use blood or bone meal, anything with alphalfa or wheat germ or chiken poop in it. If you have a formula that meets those needs you need to post them up because i see a new thread everday asking for soil recipies.

I throw a handful of osmacote on in the fall, pitcha another handful on at planting - a few gallons of nitro and bud bloom and im done. No mixing or carrying or fighting off critters.

2. that nitrogen and other nute levels are suffiecient for the season if the soil was properly prepared in advance;

Ive had larger plants grow to 12' and add as much as 6" of growth per day... that is if they have the nitrogen and nutes needed to support that type of growth. If your growing with organic soil and not adding nitrogen during that period, the plant s will grow and look good but you are far from maximizing that rapid growth and unless you start dumping big doses of nitro on them, they wont continue to grow 6" per day. Its a case of not knowing what you never had. If you dont know that growth can be nurtured and maximized, you dont know that youve lost it. It can mean the difference in ounces at harvest time.

Again Alaska, this is just a debate for me, not an arguement. I respect your choice of organic growing even though just like Bud Sweat above, i think its problematic in a guerilla setting

 

[Aksala]

Ya...i guess that last statement by me was pretty stupid....

Chem's do make alot of sense in certain situations.

He just sounds like more of a hobbyist with that name and the overall vibe ya get from him. For whatever reason I assumed by "outdoor" he meant like...backyard.

I personally didn't start growing til I was legal to....so I've never had to think about guerilla grows all that much.

 

[jaykush]

growing organically with things like blood meal and bone meal in your mix is hard outside with critters yea, but that's just dumb to use in the first place when your growing outside imo. guerrilla growers have it made even more and most don't even know it, surrounded by everything they need to grow amazing high yielding plants. no need to haul stuff in, no need to bring ferts all the time, look suspicious carrying all this crap.

that being said there is always more than one way to do things right.

iGrow - you dont NEED wormcastings, you dont NEED anything. for every product you can buy there is many more products or natural materials that will replace it. but yea buy some worms and start a bin. best stuff ever for your plants.

 

[Aksala]

Wow you are VERY condescending...

First of all...names Aksala...

You didn't mislead me....you posted a misleading statement...

When did i say u have to prepare a year in advance?

We're talking about THIS guys grow....not yours....he sounds like he's just starting out...and REALLY wants to use organics....but felt there was NO other option....

And you were the person to use the word guerilla grow...not the thread starter...

 

[Wolff]

What I have found to be very strong and similar to a slow release chem fert but totally organic are Peruvian seabird pellets. they are 10-10-2.5 and a small handful topdressed to a young plant will feed it a long time. I usually come back in late June after planting in May to pull up weeds and add another small handful.

I have found the guano doesnt attract critters in my area and there is def. no shortage of critters. 10 pounds for $35. Im blessed with pretty fertile native soil so I just make my holes %50 my mix %50 native soil. My mix consists of peat, perlite, lime and water polymers. Pretty simple. Still recquires a good amount of hauling depending on how many plants your growing but it's all organic, affordable and best of all has given me good results. Hope this helps.

 

[Manitoid]

If you can't, however, you are certainly not SOL...
check out manitoids methods.. he uses lasagna layering (and very well). Research Esther Dean's method, she is one of the pioneers of lasagna layering.

but please, don't use chemicals, especially on land that isn't yours.

if it is your land, still don't use em, and in that case.. it will be alot easier to work with. (you could do top feedings.)

make sure you mulch.. heavily! straw, hay, compost... whatever..

Lasagne layers explained first post. above ground or in trench / pit both work great. Alternate green and brown layers, water, and plant in a compost pile! Will be able to go only water added until sometime in August.

Try to source it all for free... check craigslist...

Thanks Tacoe!!! +K

 

[figment42]

guerrilla growers have it made even more and most don't even know it, surrounded by everything they need to grow amazing high yielding plants. no need to haul stuff in, no need to bring ferts all the time, look suspicious carrying all this crap.

that being said there is always more than one way to do things right.

Can you elaborate farther? I would love to not tote this shit up in the woods this year. I often think there must be some way around having to buy soil and pack it in. I live in a land of red clay. What are some things I can do to get holes ready?

 

[greenmatter]

Hey guys! Thanks for checkin out the thread. Im having some trouble finding supplies for my grow so im just guna go with the chemise i didn't want to but o well as long as i get some bud but all of my studying was on organics and i never read about chemical feeding and i was wondering what you guys would use or wht you use for your outdoor grows? or what you would recommend for me as a newbie? Thanks for the comments!

go with the compost like taco said. try digging old leaves into the soil. if you get organic matter under the soil the worms will come to you (and more importantly a bunch of stuff you cant see).