How to amend my organic soil?

[Bullfrog44]

Hello everybody. I have been reading Teaming with Microbes and going through the forums on organics. I have read about the theory of not tilling your garden because it kills your bio life in the soil. My questing is, how do I amend without tilling? I got some soil samples and it seems I don't have much nutes left in the soil, however it seems fairly nice and fluffy, good texture.

Any advice would be great.

 

[guest2012y]

Not many people attempt this...check this thread.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=208494

 

[Bullfrog44]

Maybe I should be more precise, I was really tired when I started this thread. I am growing outdoors in an area that is 35 x 25. I will be growing veggies, fruit and cannabis. Some other stuff also.

I did find that thread interesting however. Thanks for the link.

So, is using Tea's the only way to richen up the soil? Or can I get a yard or two of compost and spread a lair on top? Keep in mind I will be putting all my seedlings into this soil. All my seedlings will be vegged for about a month first, and it is all my fruits and veggies. Cannabis will be put in smart pots and allowed to grow through the bottom.

Thanks, if any more info is needed just let me know.

 

[geopolitical]

What does your soil profile look like? (when you dig a strait hole what does the subsoil/etc look like?)

What's your clay/loam/sand/etc %? (you can do this test with a big mason jar & water)

How fast does your soil drain? How porous is it?

Are you going to be irrigating for the most part or do you get heavy rainfall?

While not tilling an existing field will help preserve much of the "locked" carbon & organic content you may be better off with a single till if your soil is very deficient, compacted or bereft of organics to begin with. If you start out with a field that was a compacted piece of dried clay (say a former parking lot with decades of use) you're probably better off with an initial till than not.

What exactly did the soil test say your soil nutrient levels were at? Generally tests I've gotten back in the past have had a listing of levels along with a recommendation for amendments/etc for various crop use. That test should give you what you're missing, then you can pick what you'd like to till in or top dress to "fix" your soil so it's to the liking of the crops you're targeting. You wouldn't add nitrogen for an apple orchard planting for instance, but the same soil that's great for my apples would starve my tomatoes to death.

The easiest way for you to amend your soil is to "top dress" it, by as you suggest, getting some compost or other organic amendment and simply covering your existing soil with it. Each rain & watering will work more material into the soil, as will worms, bugs, other denizens of a happy soil biome. This can be a slow process however. You can also plant a "green manure" a short term annual crop that's either mowed down flat, torched or tilled in after use. The roots/etc are generally left in place and help break up hardpan & add needed organic material. Deep rooted green manures will also carry nutrients from deep in the sub soil to the surface, making them available to subsequent crops. Some are nitrogen fixing and will actually enrich your soil directly.

If you have a year, just covering the surface with knee high wood chips & letting them sit for 12 months has worked great in the past for me. It sounds pretty counter intuitive (and you'll end up with a TON of surplus chips for the compost pile) but it works like a charm.

Basically there are 100 ways to accomplish what you want to do.

 

[Butte_Creek]

Imo the soil can be initially broken up to introduce amendments deeper into the soil for hungrier plants like cannabis, and microbes can always be restored afterwards through the use of compost teas and/or inoculants. Get some bacterial and myco inoculants, or batch some AACTs, and inoculate your compost mix prior to planting.

Or, you could always top dress with manures and meals and add a few inches of compost over the top of that if you don't want to disturb the established hyphae and soil food web. That's what I've been told to do by certain people. Those manures and meals will leach down and make themselves available in the rhizosphere, but you will have to top dress more often through the season, rather than having the whole volume of soil amended.

Either way is up to you. I wouldn't trip too hard on breaking up the soil, it is damaging, but not irreversible. Obviously you are aware how vigorous and hungry cannabis can be, so loading your compost with amendments would probably be more beneficial in achieving the largest plants possible, if that is your goal. Top dressing with amendments and/or burying that under a little layer of compost is a great alternative though.

I don't know if that helps...

edit: Teas are not the only way to enrich a medium, they just seem to be the fastest way to introduce a healthy population of microbes into your soil. AACT is just a vehicle and breeding ground for your microbes to rapidly populate and then be introduced into your medium. Top dressing compost also enriches your soil, because it contains humus and a population of microbes.

 

[Microbeman]

Already discussed some time in history

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=136831

The Method Employed:

I exercised this philosophy on our outdoor and greenhouse beds, applying EM fermentations after harvest to help breakdown the old dead roots and lay down a base of living microbes and/or applying it about 2 months to 2 weeks prior to planting. ACT was applied throughout the growing season via overhead irrigation. We had a great deal of success using this method and it was easier because we never dug up our soil again except for planting holes. A great bonus encountered from using ACT is that our powdery mildew problems pretty much went away. (this could also be partly attributed to not using phosphorous anymore).

Indoors we had been growing cannabis in 5 gallon containers, mixing up the soil every planting and all that. I decided to try moving the outdoor system inside. We built bins from 2X6 (& 2X8) which were approximately 36”x12”wide x16” high. They were built so they were sloped out at the front and could be stacked one atop another but there was still access to the soil for planting etc. In this way we could provide enough (I hoped) critical mass for the soil to become a living thing. We stacked the bins about 5 feet high in a basic circle with an entry space and arranged three 1000 watt HPS lamps vertically in a central position evenly spaced to spread light from top to bottom of the stacked bins. The soil was mixed to be good indefinitely. Some batches were roughly 33% top soil, 33% vermicompost, 33% sphagnum peat moss, with perilite, rock phosphate, kelp meal, alfalfa meal and dolomite in minor amounts. Other batches were 50% peat and 50% vermicompost, etc. The bins were filled then drenched with diluted EM fermentation and allowed to sit for about two weeks prior to planting. Glomus mosseae (mycorrhizal) spores were coated on the roots of the rooted cuttings and placed into the transplant holes at planting time. During the whole growing period ACT was applied periodically undiluted. Populations of Persimilis and Cucumerus (sp?) and Lady Bugs were introduced to control mites, aphids and thrips. The plants were grown to approximately 8 to 10 inches tall then the lights were switched from 18 hour days to 12 to induce flowering. They finished at about 18 to 24 inches. The entire growing time was about 10 to 12 weeks. After harvest red wriggler composting worms were dropped into the bins to devour the dead roots and leaves lying on the surface and to poo and aerate the soil. EM fermentations were applied sometimes while the worms were still in, sometimes after. It did not seem to make much difference. The worms were trapped out with mesh plastic traps laid on the surface filled with their favorite foods. Some remained in the bins but that doesn’t matter. At minimum two weeks after applying EM the planting took place again and immediately vermicompost was top dressed as well as fish hydrolysate about a week or two after planting. This continued for about 5 years without ever disturbing the soil. The populations of Persimilis and Cucumerus flourished along with resident Rove beetles, spiders, springtails, rollie pollies, millipedes, etc. The Lady Bugs needed replacements. Mushrooms grew and there was a mini-ecosystem established.

It was good and a joy.

This year we planted tomatoes in July (very late) in straight vermicompost and it looks like we'll have a crop. Healthy plants. Comparies. Note they are growing happily with weeds.

 

[Butte_Creek]

microbeman-what can you tell me about EM fermentation? i know a guy locally who batches it(it's also available in bottle at a local store), and was thinking about watering it in my amended compost beds a few weeks prior to planting..

 

[Bullfrog44]

Been swamped lately everybody, I love the advice but I need time for a proper response. I will try to get back with that response soon.

 

[mad librettist]

How to amend my organic soil?

if you are going to break earth, look up the luebkes. I think they use a kind of plow that doesn't create hardpan, which is the main reason the "initial till" usually leads to another till.

 

[Stankie]

I just tore up some of my yard for a new veggie garden.

Tilled it initially then immediately covered it with alfalfa hay, some amendments and rock dusts, compost, and a sh!t load of EM to start breaking things down. Probably about 6"-8" total of hay/compost. I also threw in some of my wiggler cocoon rich EWC and a bunch of collected native earthworms when it rained.

I've had the EM working on it for about 3 weeks and it's getting near planting time so I am going to heavily spray some aact this weekend. No weeds yet, even though there were plenty of seeds in the hay!

 

[geopolitical]

There are no real "native" earthworms to North America. Just a few relatively rare lowland & wetland worms. What we think of as "native" worms are relatively recent imports. They're invasive nasty critters that absolutely decimate local biomes.

If my woods had earthworms I'd have no leafmold. Without leafmold on the forest floor the birch won't germinate properly here.

You introduce worms, you'll have zero trees in 100-200 years.

 

[mad librettist]

How to amend my organic soil?

There are no real "native" earthworms to North America. Just a few relatively rare lowland & wetland worms. What we think of as "native" worms are relatively recent imports. They're invasive nasty critters that absolutely decimate local biomes.

If my woods had earthworms I'd have no leafmold. Without leafmold on the forest floor the birch won't germinate properly here.

You introduce worms, you'll have zero trees in 100-200 years.

I remember the shock from learning this in a nat geo article. the authors wrote that the invasion must have started at Jamestown, brought in with the ballast.

guns, germs, and steel get a lot of the credit for wiping out the native tribes, but the earthworm could be just as much the culprit, since it completely changed the ecosystem on which native practices were based.

 

[Stankie]

I guess I mis-typed and should have used a different term... I just meant worms that crawled forth from the ground and I collected from the gutter, not originally from the internet.

 

[mad librettist]

worm pollution is only a worry in some rare places now. They are naturalized in most areas.

I did not mean to agree with the statement that you will have no trees if you let worms go. If you want maples, you'll be real happy. (they are both naturalized monopolizers of space)

 

[Microbeman]

I've always had a healthy skepticism regarding the hypothesis/theory that earthworms are not native to North America. Before I started raising red wrigglers we often found these red worms which wriggled when exposed to light under horse droppings out in our field. After I bought some red wrigglers to start my worm wrangling, I thought 'these are the same damn worms' and they are. Where I lived was 2 hours from the closest city where anyone had composting worms. Huh? How did they get there? The same folks saying all the stuff about worms not being native say that red wrigglers CANNOT survive in a garden. Well....Oh yes they can...and do just fine. I'm gonna look into this again.

I had a foster son who was a Dene from the deepest darkest northern reaches of the Canadian forests and he remembers digging worms as a child. His Father's generation were the first to see white people in their land.

Of course I know that the Boreal forest is suffering from transplanted worms but worms are not wholesale slaughtering forests everywhere.

 

[mad librettist]

The same folks saying all the stuff about worms not being native say that red wrigglers CANNOT survive in a garden.

huh? AFAIK the people who brought me that news know that wigglers and nightcrawlers are everywhere almost. What's described is a pre Jamestown ecosystem involving massive leaf drifts. I mean massive. We are talking 1600's, and the buggers transformed the continent by the 1800's.

Of course I know that the Boreal forest is suffering from transplanted worms but worms are not wholesale slaughtering forests everywhere.

That's because the forests have been dead for a while, and new ones have popped up. Have you been to Vermont? It's a maple monoculture. There's hardly any old growth in Quebec.

I doubt the damage is from wigglers, which of course can live in a garden and live well in my containers. Have you ever watched a nightcrawler eat though? Go out at dawn and watch the dead leaves in your garden. You'll see one start to quiver, shake, stand up, and disappear. That's a nightcrawler grabbing it and pulling it down. The last place I lived had all sorts of trees, but the only leaves on the ground are oak. Nightcrawlers grab the rest until there is nothing. Without them the leaves would pile up to my head.

 

[Microbeman]

huh? AFAIK the people who brought me that news know that wigglers and nightcrawlers are everywhere almost. What's described is a pre Jamestown ecosystem involving massive leaf drifts. I mean massive. We are talking 1600's, and the buggers transformed the continent by the 1800's.



That's because the forests have been dead for a while, and new ones have popped up. Have you been to Vermont? It's a maple monoculture. There's hardly any old growth in Quebec.

I doubt the damage is from wigglers, which of course can live in a garden and live well in my containers. Have you ever watched a nightcrawler eat though? Go out at dawn and watch the dead leaves in your garden. You'll see one start to quiver, shake, stand up, and disappear. That's a nightcrawler grabbing it and pulling it down. The last place I lived had all sorts of trees, but the only leaves on the ground are oak. Nightcrawlers grab the rest until there is nothing. Without them the leaves would pile up to my head.

I've lived in Vermont and was born in Quebec. I thought it was from French Canadian pee

It is commonly stated all over the place that red wrigglers cannot survive in regular soil (but it is a myth) and they cannot survive a cold winter (another myth)

http://www.sustainable-gardening.com/inputs-tools/compost/invasive-worms
The red wiggler or Eisenia fetida, another European import, is the primary species sold for composting purposes. Unlike the night crawler, the red wiggler thrives in organic waste, lives close to the surface, and can’t survive temperatures below 40 degrees or above 90 (the ideal is 70-75). Where winters are mild they still only survive outdoors in compost bins or heavily mulched gardens that are rich in organic matter. But as composters they’re ideal — they eat, excrete and breed quickly. I learned that the red wiggler “has not been found outside of compost in Minnesota. They can’t survive being frozen.” The Brooklyn Botanic Garden website agrees that they’re not a “problem species.” Maryland’s Extension Service says these worms “do poorly” in average soil, and Virginia reminds us that composting worms like the red wiggler are not an “earthworm” at all. Now can we relax hire these guys to do some composting for us?

Good grief!

Native worms;

http://www.naturewatch.ca/english/wormwatch/facts.html
There are some species of earthworms that are native to North America and Canada: Aporrectodea bowcrowensis, Bimastos lawrenceae, Arctiostrotus perrieri, Arctiostrotus vancouverensis, Toutellus oregonensis and Sparganophilus eiseni.

[In Canada]
Native earthworms survived only in areas that were unglaciated, such as the west coast of British Columbia, parts of the Yukon, and the most southern parts of Eastern and Atlantic Canada.

Amusing read attached.


Something I wrote ages ago. Links might be dead.

It is probably a little silly to believe that all the worms spread across North America originated from the early European settlers, especially considering that worms cannot fly. I think that scientists are beginning to re-evaluate this stance.

MM



“Terrestrial ecologists in Wisconsin note earthworms are native to the farmlands, savanna and prairie lands in southern Wisconsin, but there is little research to determine which worms were native in formerly glaciated areas.
“Given limited resources and other more pressing research questions, we’re not evaluating earthworms as an exotic species, and we’re not aware of other similar projects among Midwestern researchers other than these few projects in Minnesota,” said Karl Martin, DNR forest ecologist. Martin was aware that Holdsworth has begun examining a few sites in western Wisconsin.”

http://www.wnrmag.com/stories/2005/aug05/eworm.htm


“There are many species of earthworms and each generally has different preferences for soil conditions. Of the 200 species found in North America only 18 have been found in Canada; only six of these are native to this country. Some species are only found within the top surface layers while others, such as Lumbricus may be able to penetrate several feet to the subsoil horizon. Those that live within the surface layers generally migrate to lower depths during the summer as the soil becomes drier. Cultivation of the soil may enable earthworms to penetrate further into the soil.”


http://eap.mcgill.ca/publications/eap6.htm

I would post some stuff by my favorite worm scientist Kelly Slocum but I've already done that in other threads.

 

[Microbeman]

huh? AFAIK the people who brought me that news know that wigglers and nightcrawlers are everywhere almost. What's described is a pre Jamestown ecosystem involving massive leaf drifts. I mean massive. We are talking 1600's, and the buggers transformed the continent by the 1800's.



That's because the forests have been dead for a while, and new ones have popped up. Have you been to Vermont? It's a maple monoculture. There's hardly any old growth in Quebec.

I doubt the damage is from wigglers, which of course can live in a garden and live well in my containers. Have you ever watched a nightcrawler eat though? Go out at dawn and watch the dead leaves in your garden. You'll see one start to quiver, shake, stand up, and disappear. That's a nightcrawler grabbing it and pulling it down. The last place I lived had all sorts of trees, but the only leaves on the ground are oak. Nightcrawlers grab the rest until there is nothing. Without them the leaves would pile up to my head.

I feel like negative repping you just to counter that silly positive rep you just got

 

[Microbeman]

Here's some more; BS .. Can’t live in soil

http://www.compost-bin.com/column.shtml
Garden earthworms are not to be confused with composting worms that can be kept in containers. L. terristris is a burrower, and will kill itself trying to burrow in a worm bin. Composting worms cannot tolerate temperature extremes, and though they can survive inside a compost pile, will perish if left to their own in garden soil.

http://www.greenlifesoil.com.au/worms.htm
Generally, composting worms do not survive if released into garden beds - unless you can ensure a constant supply of food (eg. manure or compost).

Even experts are wrong! [glad I’m not one of those]

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/verm/msg0522584323986.html
Directly copied from excerp from Dr Clive Edwards Book Soil Biology ,Soil Biology Primer Chapter (8) Earthworms.
Surface soil and litter species – Epigeic species. These species live in or near surface plant litter. They are typically small and are adapted to the highly variable moisture and temperature conditions at the soil surface. The worms found in compost piles are epigeic and are unlikely to survive in the low organic matter environment of soil.

Duh!

http://www.wormcomposting.ca/eco-gardening/gardening-with-red-worms
Add to that the fact that the composting species (the worms I write about and sell) typically don’t do all that well in soil – being adapted for life in rich, organic materials – and the outlook becomes pretty bleak. The really sad part is that some unscrupulous (or perhaps overly optimistic?) compost worm dealers will actually still sell worms to people wanting to introduce them to their soil…[sigh]…but that is an entire subject unto itself!

Unless you are stripping the soil of crop residue, composting red wrigglers will do just fine in yer garden.

 

[MrFista]

I have composting worms (foetida) living under logs in my garden. I agree that it is BS they can't live in the wild. If they can't live in the wild - where did they come from? Venus?

Nice to see some myths getting busted, good work MM.