Finally! pine bark fines!

[madliberated]

thanks for posting your experience OZZ! No worries, I have plenty of my "regular" mix going.

Did you use aged bark? also, do you ever use charcoal in your mixes? I am going to approach pine bark like charcoal by loading it up with nutes before use.

 

[Microbeman]

Well, I meant using any sort of woody material in the mix. - N theft not being an issue is relative to your situation then. I believe it is fact that it will happen.. Yes, very slowly.. but why let it happen at all? "That shit just stole my nitrogen"

In the past I had thought bark sounded great for drain/aer.. but I think I learned otherwise since then.. who knows. proceed with caution. I have never heard of anyone actually doing it, and my intuition tells me not to experiment with it.. too many other viable options.
But I'll look into 2ndtry.

Having an honest supplier/processer is essential so you can trust that the bark fines are truly aged (composted) and therefore N lock up will not be an issue. Rather you should have a stable source of longterm carbon.

 

[GanjaSnake]

the point of using partially composted bark, rather than sapwood, is that it breaks down so slowly. N robbing is not a problem.


2ndtry's mix did away with perlite and other drainage amendnents, and relied entirely on pine bark fines to provide air and water porosity.

I have a pile of pine bark in my backyard that has been sitting in the same spot for at least 12yrs. The top is still quite chunky, but underneath its turned to fines... Nothing seems to grow there though?? If you dig into it there's lots of molds in it, I've thought about using it before but with everything else available I've never dug in. Its a combination of different types of pine, left over from years of chopping wood in that location....

 

[Microbeman]

I have a pile of pine bark in my backyard that has been sitting in the same spot for at least 12yrs. The top is still quite chunky, but underneath its turned to fines... Nothing seems to grow there though?? If you dig into it there's lots of molds in it, I've thought about using it before but with everything else available I've never dug in. Its a combination of different types of pine, left over from years of chopping wood in that location....

It is going to be infected with indigenous fungi; could be good or bad. What species of wood?

 

[GanjaSnake]

It is going to be infected with indigenous fungi; could be good or bad. What species of wood?

Well, the majority would be white pine. However, we also have Red fir, grand fir, douglas fir, blue spruce. And I'm sure I've left some out, if I remember correct I counted 7 different species when I first bought this place 12yrs ago.

I may try some in an outdoor planter mix first before I try it with an indoor container.

 

[Microbeman]

Well, the majority would be white pine. However, we also have Red fir, grand fir, douglas fir, blue spruce. And I'm sure I've left some out, if I remember correct I counted 7 different species when I first bought this place 12yrs ago.

I may try some in an outdoor planter mix first before I try it with an indoor container.

Pine & fir is good; no cedar. I'd bet it is just 'fine' (hahaha)

 

[VerdantGreen]

after a lot of searching i can get one that is 8-16mm particle size - sounds good but probably wont hold enough water.

i can also get one 2-7mm particle size which is close to spurr/secondtry's recommended 2-4mm, and is likely what i'll go for.

both are nursery products so should be reliable (but not cheep! )
it'll have some work to do in order to match up to my present soil based 'regular' mix, but i'd love to try it

any advice????

VG

 

[mad librettist]

Other than reading Al's posts on gardenweb, good luck! I have a whole lot of houseplants to do, and they will be going into 1:1:11) mix (pine barkoultry grit:calcined clay:compost)

I am running an 8 miles high lady in pine bark fines, charcoal, and turface, with compost and topsoil added. Nothing conclusive yet.

 

[VerdantGreen]

ai recommends 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch - which is about 3-7 mm, i guess it's pretty close

 

[mad librettist]

yeah, for cannabis you are looking at the 5:1:1 mix, not the gritty mix.

secondtry had it modified to take compost. I added topsoil on top of that, and throw clover at it to manage the water. I'm thinking trailing purslane around the edges too.

 

[VerdantGreen]

yeah, for cannabis you are looking at the 5:1:1 mix, not the gritty mix.

what particle size range is that ???

 

[habeeb]

isn't the rice hulls suppose to add air ? I thought the point of the pine bark was to add the lightness without perlite or similar?


sorry, also just walking into this thread, haven't been on the organic lately..

 

[habeeb]

look into AL on gardenweb he is a pine bark fines artist. His soil mixes don't support a perched water table, so he can have crazy small containers.

.

this is also very easily done through using coco. as if were going away from mostly peat, then I think coco should also be put into this circle of possibilities


I mean, if you look at it, it's only a matter of time before coco surpasses peat. coco has many points over peat

-can be watered once a day without being waterlogged
-can be re-used
-easily dumped into the garden, unlike peat which usually comes with perilte ( not good for stealth )
-needs no aeration amendments
-breakdown releases K
...


I look at things of simplicity now. if something gives good results, that's great. but what about simplicity? the thing I've come to notice with organics, is its anything but simple.. good for the environment, yes. but I should remember this is a select group of growers, and maybe I'm making my speech to the wrong people... I am just thinking global scale "organics" and these methods are not suited for everyone.


take on offense, and sorry for going off track, just some thoughts flowing out, on why organics is not user friendly to most..

 

[mad librettist]

hmm I don't know about coco. I played around with it way back when, and didn't fall in love.

I'm not really in love with pine bark either. I'm in love with living mulch. My latest experimental container has no pine bark, no peat. Just calcined clay, compost, and topsoil. The top 6 inches or so is just compost and rice hulls. The clover will hold it all together. (if all goes well)

 

[VerdantGreen]

i think organics is as simple or complicated as you want to make it. i guess my present soil mix has quite a few components but i only have to mix it once each grow - and i see that time as an investment in a trouble free grow ahead of me.

i guess it's about finding a way that works for you, and then make sure you do it well.
i also enjoy experimenting though....

VG

 

[mad librettist]

VG here is an 8 mile high cut in a recipe close to 2ndtry's

 

[bioguy]

hmm I don't know about coco. I played around with it way back when, and didn't fall in love.

It took me a while to find the sweet spot but I am so glad I kept at it.

I'm not really in love with pine bark either. I'm in love with living mulch. My latest experimental container has no pine bark, no peat. Just calcined clay, compost, and topsoil. The top 6 inches or so is just compost and rice hulls. The clover will hold it all together. (if all goes well)

That sound like a wild mix. I like seeing people step out of the norm. I make all kinds of alternative soil mixes for outdoor food gardens. Very few have been stellar.

check out the link in my next post for some good info that might help

 

[bioguy]

Anyone interested in pine bark should check out these

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0715434425632.html?69
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/soil/msg1107113827676.html

I have been looking into this for a while and it looks like bark fines are more popular than peat among long time container gardeners (not cannabis). I suspect that the troubles people are having come from the wrong bark fines (as mentioned several times) but also because changing any piece of the system causes a domino effect that has to also be compensated.

For instance:
I abandoned perlite based on Mandala Seeds soil advice (it has no nutrients and is thus a waste of space). I still have some in the mix because I use pre bagged soil in the mix but its negligible. But perlite serves a purpose, Drainage! This is why I added coco, for its oxygen retention. I thought it was way to wet, under watered and failed. Then over watered and failed.

Finally, I put it in a smart pot. The coco wicks so well that drainage is not even needed in a smart pot but everything still yellowed early. I countered this with better compost and light application of fish emulsions. Now they get watered 2-4 times a day so they have a constant supply of fresh oxygen via water instead of air space.

Currently I use a very dense, compost rich, coco/peat mix with poor drainage in 2 gallon smart pots with light bottled nutrients

Before I used an ultralight mix in 5 gallon buckets that got tons of nutrients.

My plants are so much nicer now I can't imagine how much I lost the other way.

Point being, Be careful what you change in a well dialed system.

I dropped perlite and before you know... I have cloth containers half the size, new nutrients, a different water schedule and new compost.

 

[bioguy]

That's a good idea I would think. You could cut and work it in as needed.

But I was just thinkin throw a little extra blood meal in.. or maybe soak the fines in fish hydro. so they got some N to use.

As is usual for me, I would probably test it first on a lone plant without N supplementation.. see what happens then make adjustments

This can work. But remember that the added decomposition effects more than just N. Specifically Oxygen. Don't forget feather meal, it is dependent on microbes for slow release.

I do it but its unpredictable. Its pretty easy to mis judge. I end up over N and under N pretty regularly.

Finally the use of the bottled nutrients is a hot topic that may prevent yuo from reusing the mix.