Clone of a Clone of a... Degredation Experiment

[jd4083]

Well, this thread certainly went downhill quickly. too bad

 

[mintz]

what he said

 

[AFGHANICA79]

I took a cutting from an 8 week old hydro run and revegged it back and it stinks to high heaven far more than the original mother.

What would be better to take cuttings from mother1 who has not been flowered or been in hydro vs mother2 who has been fliowered for 8weeks and revegged

Would mother2 cuttings adapt to the enviroment better than mother1?

I would take mother2 over mother1 anyday!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[hurdy gurdy man]

The question I would ask is; has anyone EVER seen degredation through repeated taking of cuttings from cuttings?

ANYONE?

 

[hurdy gurdy man]

I took a cutting from an 8 week old hydro run and revegged it back and it stinks to high heaven far more than the original mother.

What would be better to take cuttings from mother1 who has not been flowered or been in hydro vs mother2 who has been fliowered for 8weeks and revegged

Would mother2 cuttings adapt to the enviroment better than mother1?

I would take mother2 over mother1 anyday!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Why?

 

[Microbeman]

The question I would ask is; has anyone EVER seen degredation through repeated taking of cuttings from cuttings?

ANYONE?

Read much?

[I know I was not going to add anything further but could not resist]

 

[hurdy gurdy man]

Read much?

[I know I was not going to add anything further but could not resist]

I didn't read the whole thread, sorry.

I'm just asking people who have worked with the same clone over a number of years to speak up if you have seen degredation. If it does exist, I'm thinking that it wouldn't happen in one stoner's lifetime. I'd like to hear some anicdotal evidence.

If several people have indicated that they have experienced such, I apologize.

 

[hurdy gurdy man]

I gave my reason. Lack of interest and have not heard otherwise from people that have done it for many years. Unless you are calling them liars. Its better for me to just believe actual results than try to find some out-dated or inaccurate research paper that shows otherwise.

Wasting time in this is pointless because DNA don't change unless you actually do something to change it.

If anything the plant will learn to adapt to your space better over the years.

Unless I hear otherwise, I have to agree.

 

[Mountain]

I'm just asking people who have worked with the same clone over a number of years to speak up if you have seen degredation. If it does exist, I'm thinking that it wouldn't happen in one stoner's lifetime. I'd like to hear some anicdotal evidence.

I worked with the same cut for 5 years and didn't notice any changes.

In thinking about this maybe a way to speed things up is run 2 mothers. I mother 'line' is always from the healthiest, most vigorous offspring and the other line is always perpetuated from the weakest, least vigorous offspring.

 

[hurdy gurdy man]

Thanks for the reply, Mountain. Anyone else? Microbeman?

 

[Microbeman]

I didn't read the whole thread, sorry.

I'm just asking people who have worked with the same clone over a number of years to speak up if you have seen degredation. If it does exist, I'm thinking that it wouldn't happen in one stoner's lifetime. I'd like to hear some anicdotal evidence.

If several people have indicated that they have experienced such, I apologize.

Well then read it. I'm not going to search out my previous posts. Off course DNA changes occur environmentally. This is old news.

 

[decarboxylator]

Well then read it. I'm not going to search out my previous posts. Off course DNA changes occur environmentally. This is old news.

hurdy: Do a search within the thread for whatever you are looking for. Or take the time to read it. Repeatedly answering the same question is killing the gurus. Have a happy hashy day.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_apple_cultivars

"Annurca 1876 (documented) Campania, Italy Very old apple; possibly one of the oldest of all. Believed to be older than first mention in Pasquale's Manuale di Arboricultura, 1876. Believed to be the apple depicted in frescoes at ruins of Herculaneum and mentioned in Pliny the Elder's Naturalis Historia."

If apples don't convince, maybe a quick study of Humulus Lupulus and it's cultivars? After all, hops is dioecious and (primarily) propagated by clones, like cannabis.

 

[Mountain]

If apples don't convince, maybe a quick study of Humulus Lupulus and it's cultivars? After all, hops is dioecious and (primarily) propagated by clones, like cannabis.

Really? Thought they were propagated more through rhizomes?

 

[Microbeman]

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_apple_cultivars

"Annurca 1876 (documented) Campania, Italy Very old apple; possibly one of the oldest of all. Believed to be older than first mention in Pasquale's Manuale di Arboricultura, 1876. Believed to be the apple depicted in frescoes at ruins of Herculaneum and mentioned in Pliny the Elder's Naturalis Historia."

If apples don't convince, maybe a quick study of Humulus Lupulus and it's cultivars? After all, hops is dioecious and (primarily) propagated by clones, like cannabis.

I don't get the Annurca connection. Are you saying it has carried through time as a cutting? Does it say this in your link?

As mountain said most hops are propagated via severed root clumps/shoots but some are done by cuttings.

For the record, I have supported the possibility of maintaining plant integrity via cuttings of cuttings in this thread but I pointed out that I and some other fairly large growers (e.g. 60 kg/year) failed to maintain this integrity beyond about 7 years when taking cuttings of cuttings of cuttings.....the mothers just a distant memory.

decarbolylator: While I appreciate the sentiment, I'm hardly a guru, especially in relation to genetics. I am preparing to study microbial evolution though.

See...I got sucked back into this thread.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

Yeah I'm saying that apple cultivars are the same as cannabis clones are the same as hop rhizomes, etc. clones is clones even if the word is only used with weed growers.

 

[Scagnetti]

The only diff I see in F20 and F1 is the 20 may not root as easily in the EZ but then again that could be a stoner's observation anomaly.

 

[187020]

1992 cut

1992 cut

no mother plants, clone over clone by me for nearly 20 years now and better than ever !!

peace homies

 

[Microbeman]

Yeah I'm saying that apple cultivars are the same as cannabis clones are the same as hop rhizomes, etc. clones is clones even if the word is only used with weed growers.

Just so you know, the word cultivars (in my vocabulary) means a named plant after being bred or cultivated. I do see though that many are now using the word (incorrectly imo) to mean propagated from cuttings, etc. I therefore now see our basic misunderstanding, however cutting rhizomes is 100% different from cuttings or clones. It is basically just collecting new shoots to the best of my knowledge.

http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jholland/Pubs/Holland,J.1994.AlfalfaImprovement.CropSci34,953.pdf

http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/EA9960731

http://www.springerlink.com/content/1er8fkntm18pglrn

http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/content/88/2/124.full.pdf+html

 

[Mountain]

The only diff I see in F20 and F1 is the 20 may not root as easily in the EZ but then again that could be a stoner's observation anomaly.

Dude when you talk F stuff the accepted understanding is seed generations and nothing to do with clones. F meaning filial and clones are not filials...from what I understand.

For the record, I have supported the possibility of maintaining plant integrity via cuttings of cuttings in this thread but I pointed out that I and some other fairly large growers (e.g. 60 kg/year) failed to maintain this integrity beyond about 7 years when taking cuttings of cuttings of cuttings.....the mothers just a distant memory.

Only 7 years? I know peeps indirectly that have held cuts for like 20 years and not Cravenmore...lol. I've also seen cuts basically just crap out and pretty much become useless. Saw that with one cut which was held by a few local indoor growers and within a few month time period they all started having similar problems at different locations.

I think part of all that may have to do with the original genetics, the P1's, involved in a particular cross?

Just so you know, the word cultivars (in my vocabulary) means a named plant after being bred or cultivated.

I understand a cultivar to be something that is not a wild child type land race but something that has been selected from land race and farmed a bit. No way to ensure selective pollination in that instance and most likely not happening but still more selective than wild native fields. I dunno...my friend REv works with some Malawi stock that came from a farmer in southern Malawi so I'd consider that a cultivar cause that farmer had some control and different than going out into the woods and finding a patch.