coco ph problems help..

[ilovemyglass]

hey guys im having some ph lockout out problems with my northerlights plant, its in bortanicare's coco grow bricks growing indoors. and recently she'e been showing some sings of nute burn on the tips and side of the leaf so i began flushing. but then the leaves started to yellow and im getting these brown spots. i think its iron toxicity due to my high ph but ive been trying to flush the medieum for two days and i cant get it to say below 6.0 i even went out to the hydroponic store and got some ph up and down concetrate and thats not helping either.
what do you guys think? thanks for the help

 

[megayields]

Well I had some yellowing (but not to your degree) Cal-Mag usage helped me a lot. I wonder if your salt lockedup...might wanna try some Drip_clean to help unlock the salts, you gotta get that PH to 6.0 or lower IMHO.....I run my PH at about 5.7 - 5.8, but that's what working for "my" environment.

Good luck bro.

 

[mg75]

pull out the plant from its container... are the roots alive? white?
do you see bugs crawling? do you have fungus gnats or aphids flying around?
please confirm you don't have root rot or a bug problem via aphids and gnats.

i just had 4 bubba kush girls virtually stuck for 2 months. no growth whatsoever. i tried everything... turns out i had root aphids and fungus gnats (apparently they like each other).
the symptoms of roots issues can manifest in "rust" spots on the leaves and all kind of deficiencies.

 

[ilovemyglass]

I believe my roots and medium are clean i just started to see roots popping out of the bottom of my pots and all the root tips are white and healthy also the roots at the base of the pant i can see when i water their white and healthy aswell when the coco rushes around. ill try leaching the medium but i havent been feeding them much ( only half strengh) i have been using the cns17 line. I am conviced that my ph is all just outta wack and im getting iron deffecincy

 

[Fluxcap]

What is your water quality like?

 

[Snow Crash]

CNS 17 does run a bit acidic but if you are testing your pH and balancing to 5.8 before applying it then that shouldn't be the source of your issue. Actually, it sounds to me like you don't have a pH issue at all.

The initial burn is probably the result of feeding higher than required (by your phenotype) and not getting enough runoff. So then you flushed... which you aren't ever supposed to do with coco. Coco requires an element buffer to maintain the CEC. By washing out the Calcium buffer in the coco you created a kind of "electrical low pressure" in the media. Calcium is a cation at +2 (like Magnesium, or Potassium at a +1) so when this element is deficient in the media the coco can actually pull elements from out of the plant to establish an electrical equilibrium with the plant.

Coco should be rinsed, not flushed, by using 1-2ml per gallon of your standard coco nutrients. This will ensure that the element ratios in the coco are maintained and that you don't further starve your plant of nutrition. This is why you see the yellowing and the spots. Your coco was short on elements and had to pull them from the plant (because where else) which causes the issue you see now.

My suggestion to you is to use the CNS 17 system at about 75% strength (like 20ml instead of 25ml) and to ensure you are pH balancing to 5.8 and getting about 30% runoff. If you stay the course, have faith in your ratios and your pH meter, then all you really need with coco is copious amounts of runoff over the long haul to ensure that what is in the media closely resembles what is in the solution you are applying. No more, no less, and the runoff will help you maintain that in the future.

To get an accurate representation of the pH you don't want to be measuring your runoff. What you do is get as much coco as you can from as deep into the media as possible. Place this coco in a cup and add just a small amount of distilled or RO filtered water. It has to be filtered! Mix up the coco and distilled water in the cup to make a slurry. Then place your pH meter right into the slurry. This will give you a much more accurate representation of the actual pH in the media.

To put it another way, you cannot look at my poop and tell me what I ate for breakfast. But if you cut me open and pulled it out of my stomach before I digested it then you'd have a much better idea of what I ate. Same kind of concept. You want to be looking at the stomach contents, rather than the excrement, of your system to determine any issues.

 

[ilovemyglass]

my water qualtiy is ok i try to mix filter water from my fridge with r/o water 50/50, the e.c usually comes out less than 0.40 ( 0.40 if i just use filtered water).

But thank you snow crash i mixed a new batch of nutes and my plant seems to be bouncing back leaves arent droopy and the new growth looks healty, thannk you for telling me about the run off that really helped me

 

[whodare]

i use cns17 and if your using 25 ml per gallon that is near 1000 ppm .5 conversion or 2.0 ec.

back it of to 10-15ml per gallon with 3-5ml of any calmag sup ph to 5.8 and things should get back on track.

when you get into flower you can up it 18ml tops, there really isnt a reason to go higher unless you have a ton of light and everything is perfect environment wise otherwise your just over feeding...

 

[Snow Crash]

No problem dude. I had to learn about coco and runoff the hard way. The more the merrier when things start looking bleak. That's my motto.

Glad to hear that things are starting to turn around. I find that sometimes I'm reacting to problems that the plant is just now showing me, but already dealt with itself. So then I'll knee-jerk react and treat for a problem that isn't a problem anymore. This in turn creates more problems and you are constantly playing catch up with the system.

I find in coco that it is better to have a "battle plan" and stick to your guns the whole way through. If you see an issue, don't over react, because the problem might have come and gone. Just keep the runoff aplenty and make sure that what the plant is working with is almost exactly what you are feeding it.

Stay the course and I bet they will be all that much happier for it. Good luck to you!

Whodare is dead right too. 25ml is a lot of food on this system. I have grown some Nirvana Blue Mystic before that I couldn't run over a 1.0ec if my life depended on it. Every plant is going to have different tolerances to nutrients, and the Botanicare directions are definitely designed for the heavier feeders. Somewhere between 10ml and 20ml per gallon is probably the Goldilocks zone for most phenotypes.

 

[whodare]

To put it another way, you cannot look at my poop and tell me what I ate for breakfast.

sure i can, as long as it was corn, oreos, sundried tomatoes or peanuts

edit:spinach

 

[Snow Crash]

sure i can, as long as it was corn, oreos, sundried tomatoes or peanuts

edit:spinach

LOL! I was going to say something like that. I couldn't figure out how to put it though. Sun dried tomatoes is a great one!

But I haven't had corn in like 2 weeks. Where the hell did that kernel come from?

Careful with your fridge water too. It could be very cold and the cool temps will contribute to pH changes and root zone issues. You want that solution you use to be somewhere between 65 and 72 degrees, I like to stick around 68 to 69 degrees with my solution when I use it.

 

[whodare]

LOL! I was going to say something like that. I couldn't figure out how to put it though. Sun dried tomatoes is a great one!

But I haven't had corn in like 2 weeks. Where the hell did that kernel come from?

Careful with your fridge water too. It could be very cold and the cool temps will contribute to pH changes and root zone issues. You want that solution you use to be somewhere between 65 and 72 degrees, I like to stick around 68 to 69 degrees with my solution when I use it.

temp shouldnt effect ph only how accurate your meter is, i have a blulab and its got auto temp compensation and i use only cold tap as it is lower ppm than water out of the hot water heater. as long as you meter can deal with the temp then the ph will be spot on...


aspargus too, its in your pee but who doesnt pee when they poop?

 

[stilblazin]

I've recently been having problems of a similar nature...I'm using canna coco with canna coco nutrients and calmag...I'm showing calmag deficiency as well as drooping leaves,hardly any growth and now some yellowing and brown spots I have been ph'ing to 5.8 my run off is testing at 5.4 and when I did the slurry test from coco from the centre of my medium it show at 50-5.1....don't know what is causing this,y last run with coco went great snd I'm not doing anything different..i'm only feeding lightly about 2.5 ml per gallon with 3-5ml cal mag my ec is 0.6-0.8 as there only about 5 weeks old....any ideas or help would be great cheers