1st Grow -- Just Started! Could use some advice.

[MeoMix]

Hi everyone!

This is my first time growing. I've done a fair amount of research and just received my clones two days ago from a buddy. I have 7 clones, all Strawberry Cough, and they came to me in decent condition.

I am no expert in diagnosis and I became a little bit concerned on my second day when I noticed some light white spotting on some of the leaves. I was hoping to get some input on that, as well. Anyway, before all that, here's my set-up:

2x Secrect Jardin Dark Room II

2x EcoGroLED 135W UFO

1x Sunleaves 4" WindTunnel

1x 4" Phresh Filter

1x Fox Farm Ocean Forest

1x Fox Farm Light Warrior

1x Fox Farm Soluable Trio

Other than that...Uhm, I am using grow bags to grow in. I started off with 1 gallon bags, filled with 50/50 OF/LW, rolled down about half way. I will roll them up as the plants grow and fill with more OF and start to work in nutrients as needed. I did not add any nutrients at the start as I did not want to risk a chemical burn. Starting with 50% LW is to help the clones take root quicker and just generally be more gentle on the plants during their youth stage.

I'm keeping the lights running from 7AM to 7PM currently, so 12/12. I'm probably going to bump it up to like 7 AM to 8:30PM once the clones get going a bit more and leave them at that for vegging. The lights are currently a foot above the canopy -- again for the clones. I'm going to let them grow to about 8 inches away from it before I start pulling it back with them. Because I'm using LEDs I can only support up to a 3 foot plant before the blue spectrum stops penetrating fully and the bottom leaves start dieing off. I've got no experience in low-stress training, but I'm going to do my best at keeping each plant's branches low and spread out. In addition, I'm going to top any that grow a bit too fast and try and keep them all away from that 3 foot mark for a while.

So, here's an album full of pictures I just took tonight. If you click Image Options -> View High Res you can see a larger picture of each of them.

Here's a few pictures from the album so you don't have to click the link if you don't want to:

Obvious white specs. Other than that looks healthy.

Some discoloration on lower leaf. Was there when I was given the clone. What could it be?

Little bit of curling on those back leaves?

I have a couple of concerns. First off, the obvious white specs on the plants. The larger specs aren't important -- I got some soil on the leaves and didn't dust it all off. The white spotting, however, I have no idea about. I looked at them for a while and checked the undersides, but didn't see anything out of the ordinary. The only thing I can think of is that when I was pouring water onto the plants I poured it directly over them -- making the leaves wet. The water had an altered, slightly low pH because the soil was at a 7.5 and I wanted to bring it down to a 6.5. I'm not sure if pouring 5.5-6.0 water over the leaves would cause this?

In addition, you can see in some of the pictures slight curling on the ends of the leaves. I looked at the weed ailement identification chart, but couldn't figure out mine. When do I know if it's a problem? At first sight, or do leaves just do small things out of your control sometimes?

Anyway.. thanks in advance for any help. I'm really trying to do this right, but who knew plants could be so complicated!

 

[DeoXy]

Misting is a good preventative measure to dust and soil particles sticking to the leaves, also can help against other pests.

are you letting her dry out a bit between waterings? are you feeding?...
Need a little more info... would prob. get you a lot better answers, from what I see looks to be of common error like feeding too early or over watering, a little bit more specifics about your method of of care and envior. would help also, very bottom leaf yellowing is normal most of the time.

Not sure if those LED lights will yield you much.. could always add some supplemental lighting, how long where they vegged for? all that will matter in your end product.

 

[hobb3s93]

your going to have to leave your lights on for longer than that to keep the plants in the vegetative state. try 18/6 like turn on at 6 am and turn off at 12 am. otherwise theyre going to go straight into budding and you wont get much at all. good luck!!

 

[MeoMix]

Misting is a good preventative measure to dust and soil particles sticking to the leaves, also can help against other pests.

are you letting her dry out a bit between waterings? are you feeding?...
Need a little more info... would prob. get you a lot better answers, from what I see looks to be of common error like feeding too early or over watering, a little bit more specifics about your method of of care and envior. would help also, very bottom leaf yellowing is normal most of the time.

Not sure if those LED lights will yield you much.. could always add some supplemental lighting, how long where they vegged for? all that will matter in your end product.

Hi. What's misting? Just spraying the leaves down lightly with water?

I watered the clones after first moving them into their new containers. I did a relatively light watering, but stuck my finger into the soil to make sure a good inch of the soil was wet. Today marks day 3 of lights being on and I was planning on watering again this evening. I have not been giving the clones nutrients because I do not want to chemical burn them. I am waiting for them to develop their root structure more before adding in nutrients.

Good to hear about the very bottom leaf yellowing. Like I said, I received the clone with that yellow leaf. Hopefully it'll recover, but I am not that worried about it.

your going to have to leave your lights on for longer than that to keep the plants in the vegetative state. try 18/6 like turn on at 6 am and turn off at 12 am. otherwise theyre going to go straight into budding and you wont get much at all. good luck!!

Ohh. Maybe I got the light cycles swapped. It should start on 18/6 and then drop to 12/12 to induce flowering?

 

[Midnight]

Danger Will Robinson, DANGER!!!! That first pic looks like the plant is infested with spider mites. They always show up as white spots. Sending positive vibes your way man, the borg are some fucked up shit to have to deal with, especially if this is your first grow. You need to get a magnifying glass and check your leaves carefully, especially underneath the leaves.

Also, you are wasting your time growing with LED's, I promise you that for sure.

 

[creep]

I couldn't agree with midnight more! That looks like a takeover to me... but I hope not!

LEDs are great if you're into mediocre results in the end, just being honest. Spend your money on an air cooled HID and save yourself the heartbreak.

 

[MeoMix]

I'm off to the store to buy a magnifying glass. I gave the leaves a good once over -- looking at the bottoms, too, but I didn't see anything too crazy. I think the leaves might.. just.. have white spots on them. I'm going to make sure, though.

RE: LEDs. You know, if they don't work out, okay, but until then I really want to give them an honest effort. I like using new technology and, at least to me, I can tell that the plants are responding very well so far. I didn't expect to see them react so quickly to being under a light -- it's neat to wake up every morning and see how much they've changed.

I'll report back on the spider mites. I looked up a bunch of pictures of them before posting and I decided that I didn't think they were it, but who knows.

 

[DeoXy]

Ok since you are here to learn... please take these tips as just that.. knowledge not me telling you what to do/how lol...

When you transplant a GOOD Soaking(where you actually get good amount of run off from bottom of grow container) is always recommended with plain PH'd water(PH depends on medium used) + your fav. transplant aide like superthrive(any vitamin B1 supp.) if your into that sorta thing.... then you want to let her dry out till shes thirsty(stick your finger in a good 3-4 inches if shes dry water, another way is get a feel for the container weight when near dried and when watered.. and only water when it feels light... this will help you out a lot in the long run and avoid common mistake.

Misting = plain ph'd water sprayed/misted using a bottle sprayer lightly over and under the leaves.. if you believe you have the *start* of a pest problem go heavy especially the undersides, and make SURE you have good vent. and you should b ok... if problems keep developing and for example you do have mites more action maybe needed...

I use a product from House and Garden called Magic Green, you mix it in as a foliar spray and works great as a preventative(forms a thin wax layer on leaf to protect it) and is a general leaf greener : used/sprayed right after lights out up to 2x a week., you want to stop misting ingeneral once buds start to form to prevent mold.

as a side note : spidermites are not uncommon when getting clones from other gardens.. can come from transporting even.. sucks but happens, I Grow from seed then eventually clone if I want to keep so I have a bit tighter control going in...

 

[MeoMix]

Hi,

Thanks for the tips. I didn't take offense to those at all, not sure why you would think I would have!

Should I be giving them a good soaking now since I did not earlier? I watered them earlier today, but it is only damp and they never received a good soaking. This is their 3rd day of being my transplant.

I spoke to my friend who gave me the clones. The clones were sprayed with Azatrol as a pesticide. He thinks the light specs may be from that.

I checked all their pHs today and they were low, so I am working on fixing that. I'm not sure how the soil got into the 4-4.5 range, but I watered with a couple of drops of pH up in my distilled water to hopefully bring it back up to a 6.5.

Humidity is at 50-55% and temperature is 71-73 degrees.

Here's an updated picture of the one in question above. I removed the specs of dirt from its leaves with a paintbrush after inspecting it to see if anything was moving. Didn't see anything move.

I'll look into misting them just to be safe.

 

[DeoXy]

Well you will know VERY soon if they are mites indeed.. keep a close eye.

Things to get if you don't already have : a ph meter, if you can't afford a hannah meter get the simple aquarium ph test kit(the one with the vial, drops and color code strip lol) just guessing with PH can be a big issue like adding PH up and down and not checking leaves you not knowing what it brought it up/down to and what your aiming for..

Work on your watering tech. a bit.. you will get the hang of it, if they feel light give them a good watering... from my experience with the FFOF soil it retains water well yet drains good, then you shouldn't have to water again for a few days ATLEAST.. you want to let them dry out a bit in between waterings to allow the roots to breathe and spread out thru the soil... don't drown em, just enough to get a good 10% or so run off

 

[MeoMix]

I have a hannah meter, but I don't like it very much. It reads the 7.0 solution fine, but it gave me different readings on my water -- yesterday it said it was 7.5 and today it said 4.5 and that my soil was super low. I added a couple of drops of pH up to my water and the meter didn't change at all. When I tested the water with an aquarium pH test kit it registered at 8+. I poured out that water, added one drop of pH up to counteract the pH down from the first day of watering, and watered using that today. I think the yellow in the new leaves is caused from that pH issue?

And if I'm hoping for a good 10% run off then I am definitely not watering enough. I used a little more than 1 1/2 cups of water to water the 7 plants this morning. That is, I split 1 1/2 cups up over the 7 plants. I'm using distilled water from the store and was doing light adjustments to it based on what the pH meter said, trying to get it to a 6.5, but have decided to probably stop fucking with it for now.

Seems like I should water more tonight.

 

[DeoXy]

I have a hannah meter, but I don't like it very much. It reads the 7.0 solution fine, but it gave me different readings on my water -- yesterday it said it was 7.5 and today it said 4.5 and that my soil was super low. I added a couple of drops of pH up to my water and the meter didn't change at all. When I tested the water with an aquarium pH test kit it registered at 8+. I poured out that water, added one drop of pH up to counteract the pH down from the first day of watering, and watered using that today. I think the yellow in the new leaves is caused from that pH issue?

And if I'm hoping for a good 10% run off then I am definitely not watering enough. I used a little more than 1 1/2 cups of water to water the 7 plants this morning. That is, I split 1 1/2 cups up over the 7 plants. I'm using distilled water from the store and was doing light adjustments to it based on what the pH meter said, trying to get it to a 6.5, but have decided to probably stop fucking with it for now.

Seems like I should water more tonight.

Could be, if you have the simple hannah PH checker(red) make sure you get BOTH calib. solutions, because the 7 isn't going to give you acurate readings without the 4 solution for the low end, I haven't had issues with mine except the minor recalib.

I'm Supprised your having these issues this early considering the amount of dolmite lime in the FFOF, works as a ph buffer and protects early on in.. but doesn't last for real long.

Try picking up some of that Magic Green I mentioned from House and Garden.. not the household disinfectant cleaner lol, and use it accordingly in a spray bottle... Also just go plain water for the next 2 watering's and avoid feeding and see if it helps, the FFOF tends to have enough good stuff to last a few weeks.. could also be shock/ them getting use to the new soil/envior,

 

[MeoMix]

Ahh, yeah. I didn't have the 4.0 solution so I just calibrated it with the 7.0 and went for it. I guess that's the issue then -- I'll pick up a 4.0 solution and hopefully it'll work a bit better.

I think things will all work out in the next week or so assuming I don't have mites. I'll work in a bit more soil as the plants grow and just use plain water for the next few days. I'll look into magic green, as well.

Thanks!

 

[Blueshark]

Meo....First, welcome to IC. Great info and help here. I've had the occasional plant with those white specs before and it may turn out to be nothing. Spider mites SUCK, watch for them forming small webs at the very top of your plant first, and if not caught/treated in time they will over-run the plant in a couple days....stay vigilant!!

Good info from Deoxy... My red 'Hanna' serves me just fine, I love it and use it frequently. Yellowing areas could be caused by Cal/Mag deficiency, so watch out for that.
Some strains feed heavy, some don't like it at all...check with your guy whom you obtained clones from to see what/how he (or she) feeds that strain.

I have only used HPS so I cannot offer an opinion on LED's...some swear by them.
Keep temps and humidity as consistant as possible. Take notes on all your grows to avoid making the same mistakes that we all have made.

Lastly, good luck with your grow!

 

[Khaleel]

hiya, meo. thought i'd chime in, what the heck. i had some guys help me out tremendously on this site when i started, so i guess i owe a karmic debt or something.. lol

yup, as the boys already said you got the light times switched. what indoor growers do with the light times is mimick mother nature.. spring and summer days are long, lots of light. fall and late fall/winter days are shorter, more hours of darkness. that is how the plant knows when winter is comin, when it has grown all it can grow for the season and needs to get sexy-time parts (flowers) goin to make seeds and keep the whole dance going through the next year lol aww, the birds and the bees..

let's see, if you got the borg (a cool name for spider mites--gotta get somethin cool out of em, cuz nothin else is cool about em) and are just starting out i would recommend scrapping your tiny veg room and starting again with fresh, non-infected clones, or get online and order some quality cannacopia seeds or other economic but good genes. once you start messing around with having to do regular maintenance like spraying and shit.. yuck. enough to do considering nutes, cloning, feeding, transplanting, etc. i only had the borg one time in my four years growing. took in a clone from a friend that had a killer white widow strain. but i didn't know to look before putting it in my already-established garden, and it infected the entire room. about ten plants around 3 foot each. not a huge garden, but it was all i had and there were some nice genes in there (purple urkle, a northern lights x white widow cross..). anyway, i fought the little bastards for a week or so, and everytime i talked to someone (was in a med state so just asked at the hydro stores and canabis clubs) everyone always said, at least once throughout their how-to-get-rid-of-them story, "once you have them all you can do is try to keep them in check. they are like herpes and will always be there."

to me, the choice is easy. suffer a self-induced set back of a few weeks or even a month to eradicate your garden and start anew, and avoid fucking with pesticides and powders and chemicals and all that completely because it will never get rid of it anyway.

before i ramble on any further about growing advice, ima give you some advice on how to take advice on these sites:

1. reputation points. there are little green dots below everyone's avatar. you start out with just one. when someone likes what you say or your pics or you helped them out, they can click on the little scales on the lefthand side of your post, also under your avatar, and give you "reputation" -- if you get 100 of these points, you get another little dot. 200, you get 2. etc. after 5, the gots cost 200 (or some shit like that i don't know if the numbers are exact but you get the idea lol). so by looking at someone's green dots to see if they have any, you can get a general idea if someone might be worth listening to. i say general, because for sure, 100%, having a bunch of rep really doesn't mean shit in the end. can get some great advice with those with just one green dot, and bad from some idiot with a full rack. just something for you to consider on a case by case basis. which brings me to number two:

2) pictures are worth a thousand words. any time someone would give me advice, first thing i would do is click on the avatar or signature line link or whatever to do a little research on the source and see if they have a functioning garden of their own or if they don't. to me, this is a proof-is-in-the-pudding sort of business. i started to notice that the guys with the most problems were the ones usually giving the most advice.. i wanna get advice on how to avoid the problems in the first place, not react to them. also, new growers love logic and reasoning and all that nonsense lol what works best might not be easily explained, but it can usually be easily shown. for instance, earlier i said something about canacopia seeds. i tried some of their bubba kush x deep chunk crosses, at around $40 for 10 seeds. now it is one thing for me to tell you they are decent, and go rambling on about the perfect sativa/indica balance and trichome development and blah blah words words.. but it is something else entirely for me to post a couple pics:

​

(no i don't represent nor make money off canacopia lol)


anyway, i'll stop for now but the best advice in the world:

KISS -- keep it simple, stupid. (i'm not calling you stupid it is just the acronym) get the basics down first. avoid overwatering like the plague. it will kill you.

deoxy is actually hooking you up with everything i would say myself. (kudos bro) except i wouldn't spend money on a ph meter. just buy the little vial of liquid stuff and vial for $6 that you drop in then read the color. it is a lot easier than some people think to tell what color, thus what ph, the water is after mixing. they have the little kits at every hydro store, some will give for free with purchases and stuff.

remember that you can't get things perfect, so you gotta just try to error on one side or the other. (a lot like life in general.) and it's better to let the plants go an extra day without water than to water a day too soon (counter-intuitive, yes, but so f'ing true). it is better to have the lights a couple inches too high off your canopy than too close. it is better to give them a little less food than a little too much. all these things are tough to keep in check, because we like to let our little minds and hands get in there and DO stuff, but in the end it's more a guiding thing and letting nature take its course than a creating and directing thing, if that makes sense.

idk i'm sure these guys can tell you stuff too, and you will figure out your own path (this is such a zen biz if you do it right) so kick ass and let me know if i can help with anything specific. i screwed up just about every which way possible before dialing it in (knock on wood).

oh yeah, as for the LED bit, i used T-5's (fluorescent lights) for my first full year before getting a 600 hps. i really liked the T-5's and grew some great herb, just like you will surely grow, but holy crap once i switched to a high intensity light (HPS) i was blown away by the difference. like moving from a 9 mil to a 50 cal, or from a honda civic to a benz. so maybe do the LED with this run then consider taking some profits to invest. don't have to get rid of the LED -- it would be a killer veg light or even just have it alongside the HPS in bloom, whatev.. anyway, my two (or twelve) cents.

peace,

 

[MeoMix]

Hey man!

Thanks for the long post. Makes me feel appreciated, haha. Those are some ridiculous looking plants. Very nicely done.

I have been trying to keep it simple and hold myself back.. that's why I mixed it 50/50 OF/LW not 100 OF, and why I'm keeping my lights a foot away instead of 8 inches, etc. I do admit it is hard though, I wanna fuck with it so much more when I've probably already done too much messing with the pH.

Anyway... I'm a little too baked to really find anything more constructive to say right now. Thanks for taking the time to read and I'll keep this updated as things progress.

 

[DeoXy]

lol it deff. is hard not to want to keep adjusting things, but KISS deff. is the way, seems like the more you try to pack in to your feeding lineup for example the more problems your open to have, patience and just generally learning/dialing in what you have is what you should be the more concerned with, it will help you grow into a natural green thumb... let me know if you need any other help, always willing to share knowledge

 

[Khaleel]

Hey man!

Thanks for the long post. Makes me feel appreciated, haha. Those are some ridiculous looking plants. Very nicely done.

I have been trying to keep it simple and hold myself back.. that's why I mixed it 50/50 OF/LW not 100 OF, and why I'm keeping my lights a foot away instead of 8 inches, etc. I do admit it is hard though, I wanna fuck with it so much more when I've probably already done too much messing with the pH.

Anyway... I'm a little too baked to really find anything more constructive to say right now. Thanks for taking the time to read and I'll keep this updated as things progress.

yes, mi amigo!! you already got the vibe of the only thing i was tryin to put down (deoxy too!), i can tell from what you said about wanting to do more lol that is just how we are. i killed many a plant by trying to do something when i should have been watching tv and leaving the bitches alone for a bit haha so good to hear my "book" wasn't wasted.

i swear i won't hijack your thread, but here is what i smoked before rambling out that book. a little cherry haze x trainwreck, orginally reeferman seeds:

i rock the fox farm ocean forest (or happy frog, not much dif i don't think) too, and do half a pro-mix or coco instead of the light warrior (never tried it, might have to look into it). i only run one nutrient in veg (wormcastings, that's it), and in bloom just a certain kind of bat guano and a couple of the humboldt line additives in the water along the way (bushmaster, snow storm ultra). get the craziest shit i've ever seen/smoked. started out using advance nutrients, and big bud, cal-mag, the usual line of petro-chemical stuff reccommended by any hydro store. i was lucky enough to have a true gardener guy that also grew weed and told me if you do organics right, and it doesn't have to be making your own camel shit and rotten cabbage tea or compost or anything lol, you can actually get bigger and more potent harvests than with the chemical stuff.

ok there i go again with another book lol

 

[Khaleel]

oh yeah i meant to say you can find out for sure if you have the borg or any other pests; just flip over the underside of your leaves and look. it is hard to make them out as anything other than a barely-visible speck, but you can usually see the movement if there is anything alive. then if you squish it and it smears, you know it was a bug! another cool way is to take one of those specks and put it under a pocket microscope. can get them at radio schack for $15 or less. (they also come in handy later for looking at trichomes to determine harvest conditions , kinda nice to take the guess work out of it during your first few runs)

 

[DeoXy]

yes, mi amigo!! you already got the vibe of the only thing i was tryin to put down (deoxy too!), i can tell from what you said about wanting to do more lol that is just how we are. i killed many a plant by trying to do something when i should have been watching tv and leaving the bitches alone for a bit haha so good to hear my "book" wasn't wasted.

i swear i won't hijack your thread, but here is what i smoked before rambling out that book. a little cherry haze x trainwreck, orginally reeferman seeds:

i rock the fox farm ocean forest (or happy frog, not much dif i don't think) too, and do half a pro-mix or coco instead of the light warrior (never tried it, might have to look into it). i only run one nutrient in veg (wormcastings, that's it), and in bloom just a certain kind of bat guano and a couple of the humboldt line additives in the water along the way (bushmaster, snow storm ultra). get the craziest shit i've ever seen/smoked. started out using advance nutrients, and big bud, cal-mag, the usual line of petro-chemical stuff reccommended by any hydro store. i was lucky enough to have a true gardener guy that also grew weed and told me if you do organics right, and it doesn't have to be making your own camel shit and rotten cabbage tea or compost or anything lol, you can actually get bigger and more potent harvests than with the chemical stuff.

ok there i go again with another book lol

I Couldn't agree more, I'm using a mix of Happy Frog and Sunshine mix 4, makes it stretch farther... and DAMN with those CherryHaze x TrainWreck pics... now there's a strain I wouldn't mind having in my garden(I Have a GHS one in mine ATM).. does reeferman still produce these in seed? might have to add it to the impulse buy list haha