How much Blackstrap Molasses to use?

[Baba Ku]

the molasses is for the micro-herd not the plant.

Blackstrap molasses is of great benefit to the plant. It is a great source of calcium, potassium, magnesium, iron, and usable carbohydrates.
The plant will benefit from it's use in all stages.

 

[187020]

Blackstrap molasses is of great benefit to the plant. It is a great source of calcium, potassium, magnesium, iron, and usable carbohydrates.
The plant will benefit from it's use in all stages.

does it sweeten the grass for real homie? i'd be interested to hear. my most flavorful sour is very well flushed with plain water.

 

[TB Gardens]

i think its really more about the benefits the molasses adds to the herd than achieving a sugary taste

 

[BrotherGanja]

i think its really more about the benefits the molasses adds to the herd than achieving a sugary taste

Agreed

 

[187020]

if your plants were healthy without molasses, would you introduce it and expect some sort of improvement? like the plant functioning better? my outdoor plants have a more floral smell, indoor its more piney. never knew whether it was soil, rain, wind or sun UV...but it was a different taste, sweeter like lilacs, not fruit or candy

 

[Baba Ku]

Look folks....forget about molasses, or anything else that is supposed to sweeten the taste of the buds. It doesn't work that way. Even if you are imagining it helping the taste, I assure you it doesn't.
The only thing that flushing with molasses could possibly add to the taste is the chemical nasty. Mg is known to make buds taste crackly harsh, and BS has a good dose of Mg and other nutrients.

Many may argue the only reason to use BS molasses is to feed the mycorrhizae, but I content that a healthy growing medium and plant will take care of it's own herd.
And I can also produce fine healthy weed without the aid of additional microorganisms.
See, the "micro herd" as it is referred to, acts as a chelate and helps the plant uptake essential nutrients. BS molasses also acts as a chelating agent to aid in the uptake of nutrients, and that is it's biggest prowess. That plus it provides essential nutrients and usable sugars.

The plant will benefit from using molasses throughout the grow cycle, and it will help to feed any microorganisms and provide essential nutrients, as well as act as a chelate.

It can only make you weed taste bad...and has no chance of making it taste "good" or any sweeter than it would without any amendment.
The power of suggestion is very strong...but I assure you if you think your bud sweetened up...it's just your mind thinking it is and nothing more.

 

[mad librettist]

does it sweeten the grass for real homie? i'd be interested to hear. my most flavorful sour is very well flushed with plain water.

no it does not.

think about this folks: drinking straws do not work in outer space.

why am I bringing that up? Because plants CAN grow in outer space. Proving what? Plants don't drink through straws, and don't take up everything you give them. Water does not flow into your plant via holes, but instead passes through tissue that is selective. It happens on a molecular level. This is why plants can survive outside a sterile environment.

All of you preaching that molasses sweetens herb when fed via roots, you are acting as if Jethro Tull had lived only just recently, and as if his theories about soil were not so way off as to be comical in our day and age. We just know better, plain and simple.

*********************************************

do plants eat sugars from the soil? NO! Plants are AUTOTROPHS, meaning they make all their own sugars. Some organisms, like certain bacteria, are both hetero and autotrophs depending on conditions. But even plants that "eat" bugs have to make all their own sugars.

Plants do not have a digestive tract, and are therefore unable to consume energy by eating.

molasses has no direct effect on brix, and I've had enough "sweet" herb, and enough experience working on my tasting skills to know the difference between a "sweet" aroma and actual residual sugar. There is a very limited set of things you can actually taste. They are: salt, sweet, sour, bitter, salty, and umami. Every other component of "flavor" is either a sensation of irritation (spicy, alcohol "taste"), or an aroma (compounds bsorbed and detected by your olfactory system.

 

[Microbeman]

Blackstrap molasses is of great benefit to the plant. It is a great source of calcium, potassium, magnesium, iron, and usable carbohydrates.
The plant will benefit from it's use in all stages.

The carbohydrates are used by microbes then the microbial nutrient loop feeds the plant OR rarely on occasion by certain plants can be mineralized by root excretions. You are correct that there are minerals and micronutrients in molasses which benefit the plant. Also, don't forget the anioxidants.

 

[Microbeman]

Many may argue the only reason to use BS molasses is to feed the mycorrhizae, but I content that a healthy growing medium and plant will take care of it's own herd.
And I can also produce fine healthy weed without the aid of additional microorganisms.
See, the "micro herd" as it is referred to, acts as a chelate and helps the plant uptake essential nutrients.

I have never heard that BS molasses was thought to feed mycorrhizal fungi. In the case of cannabis it would be endomycorrhizal (arbuscular mycorrhiza - AM). Ectomycorrhiza can be grown out using BSM. I suppose there is some chance that BSM might feed AM but it is more likely to feed fungi imperfecti and bacteria/archaea. Simplified, the way that the microbial nutrient loop works is that bacteria and/or archaea are eaten by protozoa and/or nematodes and these second organisms' waste is ionic form nutrient and therefore available for uptake by the roots of the plant. In organic/nature growing, this is the major format for nutrient uptake. The plant has a lot to do with regulating the levels of these microbial populations and as Mad has pointed out the plant regulates what it uptakes in many cases. This is one reason we like to see protozoa in soil, compost and compost tea.

You are correct that a healthy living soil (growing medium) will already have a healthy microbial population. I don't think BSM acts to chelate nutrients but I'm willing to learn if there is legitimate evidence of this.

I agree that all the sweetener/flavoring tips, including kool-aid and organge juice are myths.

 

[mad librettist]

How much Blackstrap Molasses to use?

before someone else points it out: some plants are indeed heterotrophs, like parasitic dodder. but dodder can't live without a host, and actually plugs in to the host plants vascular system.

then there are symbiotes like the corpse flower, which gets its sugar from a fungus and does not photosynthesize.

 

[mad librettist]

a little wiki magic here:

There are 3 fundamental ways plants uptake nutrients through the root: 1.) simple diffusion, occurs when a nonpolar molecule, such as O2, CO2, and NH3 that follow a concentration gradient, can passively move through the lipid bilayer membrane without the use of transport proteins. 2.) facilitated diffusion, is the rapid movement of solutes or ions following a concentration gradient, facilitated by transport proteins. 3.) Active transport, is the active transport of ions or molecules against a concentration gradient that requires an energy source, usually ATP, to pump the ions or molecules through the membrane.[4]

The only thing that flushing with molasses could possibly add to the taste is the chemical nasty. Mg is known to make buds taste crackly harsh, and BS has a good dose of Mg and other nutrients.

-baba ku


ok, so every chloroplast needs Mg. No Mg, no chloroplast. No chloroplast, no leaf, no bud. You cannot make buds without N, and you cannot make buds without Mg.

If you "flush" a plant and withhold Mg, does that mean less Mg in the buds? Really? are you sure?

So Baba Ku, for the Mg in molasses to harsh your buds, Mg has to be available via simple diffusion, otherwise why spend ATP to actively transport Mg the plant does not need (if it's needed it becomes chlorophyll remember, without which you have a dead bud site). For Mg to be uptaken via simple diffusion, the concentration of Mg on the inside of the root hair has to be lower than the concentration in the soil solution. Do you really think even a tablespoon per gallon will result in a higher soil solution concentration of Mg than you have in your plant? Sure, that's what happens with nitrate, but are we just assuming it's the same with Mg? How common is high soil Mg, compared to toxic levels of Nitrate?

If molasses treated water is higher in Mg than your plant, you probably had a deficiency, and molasses just helped your yield.


So Baba, let's play Socrates and Thrasymachus (I call Socrates). Can you tell us how Mg is transported into a plant, assuming we are not applying it to the leaves in concentrations greater than inside the tissue? Does a cannabis plant store excess Mg in its flowers? Then we will know if this Mg thing is just a canard in this conversation.

 

[Baba Ku]

Let's not play Socrates and pretend we did.

Look, I am not talking about introducing more nutrients than the plant can uptake.
I am talking about suspending nutrients at the end of flower, which means that there is less in the plants structure than would be if nutrients had not been suspended.
If folks suspend nutrients in an attempt to flush their plants, yet continue to administer molasses for whatever reason, it counteracts the suspension of nutrients.

ok, so every chloroplast needs Mg. No Mg, no chloroplast. No chloroplast, no leaf, no bud. You cannot make buds without N, and you cannot make buds without Mg.

Come on...get a better grip. This is not elementary school here. And this aint my first carnival.

lol...let me ask you, do you even grow any pot, mad?
I mean you have nothing to show for yourself. Almost a right of passage to show what you grow. I always wonder why someone comes here and involves themselves so much when they don't even grow pot?
You could maybe give some input to the comparison thread and show some of your scientific studies put to use. Give us something more than your rude lip, aye?

You know...there are some folks here that could state the most outrageous shit ever slung, and act real ignorant...but they often get a pass, because on the grower side they are kicking major ass and put amateur clowns like me to shame. They can show their shit big and proud.
You haven't shown me much so far...

 

[mad librettist]

lol...let me ask you, do you even grow any pot, mad?

me? never. Why do you ask? my last harvest was a while ago and I am not growing anything illegal anywhere. I leave that stuff in my sig, because it is an example of pulling a good yield out of a plastic bin.

I'm not sure if you realize this, but you are talking in an "organic soil" forum. A large portion of your audience, myself included, can harvest a plant (of say, chamomile), let the pot sit a month with a top dressing, and drop in another plant. We can't withhold ferts at the end of flower because we don't hold the ferts, the soil does, and the plant does the asking, and the microherd delivers up the nutes to order. We are facilitators, but we don't feed our plants. The soil does that. In fact, every time we use the soil, it improves

Yes, that is actually how it works, my dear Thrasymachus, and yes, I realize that sounds a lot like science fiction. But it is stranger and truer than that. A long, long, time ago, well cared for farmland actually improved every season. Luckily science has decided it might take us back to the good old days, but with a twist. We've got some threads with reading lists.

You don't have to be new at this to be wrong about all the things you are wrong about. Gardening in general, but cannabis especially, has always been a good place to pick up dubious lore that persists despite having no basis in reality. We are trying to sort it out here, and it's nothing personal. So if you don't mind, let's discuss the topic, not me.

 

[FlaDankster]

Will you assmunches just ignore each other.Baba man cut the shit and move on to offering what you know.....after all thats the only thing you/we can actually do.

A good thread is piling up with a bunch of cock and balls!!!!

1 ta 2 teaspoons pr gl here.

 

[mad librettist]

if your plants were healthy without molasses, would you introduce it and expect some sort of improvement?

no

 

[mad librettist]

See, the "micro herd" as it is referred to, acts as a chelate and helps the plant uptake essential nutrients

partially true. the "micro herd" also cycles nutrients in a healthy system. In a healthy organic soil the essential nutrients are, for the most part, sequestered inside the bodies that make up the herd. They are released via the nutrient cycle, trading, etc... It's not a "boost" or "help". It's the foundation. Done properly, you have a self regulating system. Flush, veg, bloom - it's all accounted for by the herd according to the immediate needs and wants of the plant, assuming the raw material is available.

example: plant prefers nitrate to ammonium for N at this stage in its growth (as in certain trees). so the plant feeds bacteria through its root exudates, and those bacteria create a slime made of polysachharides. That raises the immediate pH, and when it hits 7, ammonium is converted readily by specialised bacteria to the preferred nitrate. Ammonium is around because a vorticella is going around sweeping up hapless bacteria with its weird mustache wheels. She is gobbling up life forms as she goes, and grabbing their carbon (the foundation of life). She is left with more nitrogen than she needs, which she excretes from a vacuole as ammonium, which feeds the bacteria... After some years, the tree matures, and comes to prefer ammonium. Instead of moving, it just stops feeding the bacteria so much, and hopefully people have let it mulch itself or have given it plenty of wood mulch. The acids from the digestion of the mulch lower the pH, and ammonium stays as ammonium. The vorticella speeds by and grabs hold of something or other. she hangs on to it and spins her wheels...

Example: soil is low in P. a fungal spore contacts a young root, and infects it. from the infection site, the fungus spreads, only instead of killing, it befriends the plant and extends its root network. It facilitates uptake of P, so that what was not possible before is now possible. Using its strong acids, the fungus dissolves anything it wants, allowing it to procure P for the plant, protecting it from invaders, and helping it survive on less water. The two are peas in a pod, just like the first plant to colonize dry land, which only made it out of the sea with the help of a fungus. Old friends...

Example: prime organic dirt. You could put a seedling in today, water only, and harvest a crop. but the cannabis plant in the dirt, 1 week from harvest, is yellow and dying all over. why is that not only possible, but extremely common?

cool, eh?

 

[heady blunts]

example: plant prefers nitrate to ammonium for N at this stage in its growth (as in certain trees). so the plant feeds bacteria through its root exudates, and those bacteria create a slime made of polysachharides. That raises the immediate pH, and when it hits 7, ammonium is converted readily by specialised bacteria to the preferred nitrate. Ammonium is around because a vorticella is going around sweeping up hapless bacteria with its weird mustache wheels. She is gobbling up life forms as she goes, and grabbing their carbon (the foundation of life). She is left with more nitrogen than she needs, which she excretes from a vacuole as ammonium, which feeds the bacteria... After some years, the tree matures, and comes to prefer ammonium. Instead of moving, it just stops feeding the bacteria so much, and hopefully people have let it mulch itself or have given it plenty of wood mulch. The acids from the digestion of the mulch lower the pH, and ammonium stays as ammonium. The vorticella speeds by and grabs hold of something or other. she hangs on to it and spins her wheels...

 

[mostnonymouse]

I'm not sure if you realize this, but you are talking in an "organic soil" forum. A large portion of your audience, myself included, can harvest a plant (of say, chamomile), let the pot sit a month with a top dressing, and drop in another plant. We can't withhold ferts at the end of flower because we don't hold the ferts, the soil does, and the plant does the asking, and the microherd delivers up the nutes to order. We are facilitators, but we don't feed our plants. The soil does that. In fact, every time we use the soil, it improves

Understanding this will change your entire approach to growing. Anyone who doesn't needs to pick up a few books because you're missing out on THE best part about growing anything! The bottled nute mentality that the hydro stores across the country have been pushing and absolutely BANKING on for ages (seriously...check out the ingredients in some of your favorite cocktails, be they organic or inorganic. You can pay over $100 for a bottle of water, dye, and a dash of potassium nitrate/guano/kelp/molasses/etc.) is going to cause more problems and cost WAAAY more money than a properly amended, recycled, just-as-God-intended organic soil with a powerhouse microherd acting under direct orders of the plant as a result of the exudates it releases into the rhizosphere. It's easier and better in more ways than I prefer to list.

 

[Microbeman]

Ammonium is around because a vorticella is going around sweeping up hapless bacteria with its weird mustache wheels. She is gobbling up life forms as she goes, and grabbing their carbon (the foundation of life). She is left with more nitrogen than she needs, which she excretes from a vacuole as ammonium, which feeds the bacteria...

I believe you intended to say 'which feeds the plant...' [although there is actually some back feeding of bacteria]. Also flagellates and naked amoebae are probably more common soil protozoa than Vorticella - but she is lovely.

 

[mad librettist]

I believe you intended to say 'which feeds the plant...' [although there is actually some back feeding of bacteria]. Also flagellates and naked amoebae are probably more common soil protozoa than Vorticella - but she is lovely.

I was kind of letting it gush out. I meant to say feeds the plant that feeds the bacteria.

Don't get too picky, I chose vorticella for the imagery. The soil at a relative's place has tons of them, and they are really cool to watch.

It might be a cool comic book. Vorticella! Mistress of the vortex!

Or a mascot for a vacuum: Vorticella! Vortex technology never loses suction!