It's the CLUBS not the GROWERS!!!

[DiscoBiscuit]

i battle small minds and stupidity..

I'd emphasize you battle differences of opinion by depersonalizing your opponent. Small minds and stupidity should be easy to dissuade yet you appear to be having a tough time.

no comment on the UN huh?

Self imposing more parameters?

your definition of "legal" is impossible...

What you really mean to infer is it's your opinion that legalization is impossible. I happen to disagree that your UN huh? reflects perpetuity.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

nope
one liners like

Well, since I borrowed your phrasing and avenue... thanks for projecting.

(j/k added later )

Lol, you're running outta gas. Substituting flagellum, maybe?

are..
and thats just from a single post.

 

[dagnabit]

and you make my point yet again..
more obfuscation...



your on your own son
i wont see another thread binned for plying with your trollery...
to many good ones gone at your little fingers already...

if you post something other than ad hominem ill respond...

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

actually the only reason a tomato farmer can make a living is government subsidies..
at least it was..
now prices are set to double as the subsidies are cut.
http://pdx.eater.com/archives/2011/02/15/farm-subsidies-cut-tomato-prices-double-mcweddings.php
you really have no idea about commercial agribusiness

Objective reasoning applied as wholesale fact. Subsidies apply to a fraction of farmers. If one doesn't receive government subsidies, one may set their own price... legally. Doesn't mean that pride = sales though. These guys have to compete with the market as opposed to subsidy recipients not wrecking it.



I'm happy the tomato farmers around here don't subscribe to your blanket comments.

 

[dagnabit]

subsidies are not just checks..
import export tariffs (every farmer benefits from)
marketing loans
conservation subsidies
federal crop loss guarantees
direct payment
loan interest payment compensations
agg. credit insurance fund

thats just a few of the feds..

now for the state
Production Flexibility Contracts
Market Loss Assistance
Deficiency Payments
Loan Deficiency Payments

the list goes on and on...


might i suggest you watch
king corn
the future of food
food inc
food fight
the real dirt on farmer john
and
our daily bread.

it's our policy of market intervention that has killed the farmer by undervaluing his crops.

tomatoes should cost about 5X what they do.
this is not my opinion
it's the opinion of MANY who understand current agribusiness...

every single commercial farmer in this country benefits (in reality is harmed by) subsidies whether directly or indirectly.
all so we can be guaranteed a nice GMO tomato on our big mac.

marijuana is the one commodity unaffected.

those fucks pumping out inferior product and passing it off as top shelf,the guys shipping their OD off to the east and passing it off as top shelf,the little closet hack with his uncured miracle grow crap.
they will see their overinflated prices plummet to what they are worth.
those who have dedicated decades perfecting their craft,those who pride themselves on being artisans,those who sacrifice the easy money for producing mature,properly dried,manicured and cured organic product will see their prices stay right where they are.

^
this is truth.
like it or not

 

[whodare]

ill give you this..
those fucks pumping out inferior product and passing it off as top shelf,the guys shipping their OD off to the east and passing it off as top shelf,the little closet hack with his uncured miracle grow crap.
they will see their overinflated prices plummet to what they are worth.
those who have dedicated decades perfecting their craft,those who pride themselves on being artisans,those who sacrifice the easy money for producing mature,properly dried,manicured and cured organic product will see their prices stay right where they are.

QFT

don't forget though you'll need not only quality but rarity...

cant just grow Marlboro Chronic and expect to get a better price than them...

 

[dagnabit]

QFT

don't forget though you'll need not only quality but rarity...

cant just grow Marlboro Chronic and expect to get a better price than them...

find those true special landraces and keep 'em!!!

grow your own seed crops from 'em

make those unique crosses and dont ever let 'em get to others hands...

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

subsidies are not just checks..
import export tariffs (every farmer benefits from)
marketing loans
conservation subsidies
federal crop loss guarantees
direct payment
loan interest payment compensations
agg. credit insurance fund

thats just a few of the feds..

now for the state
Production Flexibility Contracts
Market Loss Assistance
Deficiency Payments
Loan Deficiency Payments

the list goes on and on...


might i suggest you watch
king corn
the future of food
food inc
food fight
the real dirt on farmer john
and
our daily bread.

it's our policy of market intervention that has killed the farmer by undervaluing his crops.

You forgot a major aspect of subsidies. Farmers are capable of flooding the supply and adversely affecting the macro. Subsidies help control the market from broad swings, both up and down. Now we've got far more WS speculation of commodities. It changes the aspects of subsidies when a previously minor force punches a big hole in the game.

tomatoes should cost about 5X what they do.
this is not my opinion

Then it's nothing if not your subjective/objective opinion or deductive reasoning. It's just post number... whatever.

it's the opinion of MANY who understand current agribusiness...

Sounds more like political opinion than economic indicators.

every single commercial farmer in this country benefits (in reality is harmed by) subsidies whether directly or indirectly.

Now that's a far cry from your initial argument...

Benefit vs harm. Sounds like you're battling a political paradox. One would have to observe all the benefits and pitfalls, not selective ones.

all so we can be guaranteed a nice GMO tomato on our big mac.

Assumption, feathered with "guaranteed".

marijuana is the one commodity unaffected.
^
this is truth.
like it or not

Yeah, we've already covered the niche aspect in regard to pricing. And you apparently disagree with free market vs black market differences. I get the feeling if tol hadn't made the tomato comparison, you'd be much less dismissive.

So why exactly do you hate tomatoes?

 

[dagnabit]

So why exactly do you hate tomatoes?

i dont..
i just dont think they are the same as medicine...
they dont grow the same
they dont store the same
they dont have the same needs..

i dont take umbrage with his tomato comparison..
it's just apples and hippos (apples and oranges are more readily comparable)
and the assertion that all any farmer does is pour water on a seed is foolish at best.
i was flabbergasted that you would defend such idiocy but then i think your just being contrarian at this point.

you know better than

Moral issues aside, how much do you expect to get paid to water a plant?

or at least i would think you would know better than all a med grower does is plant,water,harvest and become a millionaire...

if you truly agree with TOL then i doubt you have ever grown a thing....

 

[Yes4Prop215]

TOL you should talk to moonshine, hes one of the few on here who actually runs a large commercial marijuana facility...his comments basically shut down the entire argument since he actually has experiance running 250kw lights..while most of us arguing here are between 5-50 lights...

heres his post when i asked about fair wages in a LEGAL MARIJUANA INDUSTRY..

A....Lets establish a few things first. Im a grower not a warehouse manager. The warehouse manager is responsible for coridnating all the grower/trimer interaction, stock of grow supplies, Logging all the weight and trash and keeping up with plant/patient numbers between us and the dispensary. I think $ 60-100K is a fair deal for this person. There is no growing involved its all management and bookeeping. IS herb as easy as watering a tomato, yes, is growing GOOD MEDICAL QUALITY herb that easy, hell no. takes skill.

B. Our trimmers who only do big leafs get $10 and hour. As do the Budtenders at the dispensary. I dont think you can put into a dollar amount "What" I bring to a grow. Unlike a bunch of growers who got offered jobs and ended up negotiating pay; I was asked what I wanted to make, I tossed out a big ass number and they said yes. I told everyone upfront that I could make $100K sittin at home smokin herb with a legal 5 patients and 5K in lights. So for me to "Work" for someone it was going to have to be worth it. For anyone with a decent grow history should be able to get $150K for running 20 K in lights. $500K for 50K and a cool Mil for 100K grows or larger.


C. If you have an extremely clean facility and automate everything you can produce crops easily. BUT to produce superior quality medicine yo have to spend massive amount of effort and energy trellising, inspecting, monitoring every aspect of growth which involves a lot of human involvement and even though you can train someone to adjust ph or ppms yo cant "teach" them to recognize the subtleness of nute issues that comes from years and years of working with same plants/genetics. My 50 light rooms gets 4-6 hours of full contact inspecting every day.

D... Unfortunately the outlook is going to be a lot of growers getting bent over a screwed while people who know jack shit about cannabis are going to rake it in. It took me a while to figure out who was there for the patients and who were just trying to get paid. One of the biggest tells is the amount they pay their growers. The places that will last and produce the best herb pay their growers as much if not more than the owners. Those spots paying their top growers $40K for running 100K grows are the assholes just getting rich at the expense of their growers.

The worker breakdown from my experience. Not necc at my warehouse but from the better places.

Warehouse Manager $75K - $150K
Master Grower/Guru Grower $100K-$1Mil p yr (10+ yrs growing no breaks , 5/6 crops a year, consistent quality/quantity)

Expierenced Growers $60K - $150K p yr (4-10 yrs of growing maybe a few breaks/f'ups along the way)

Apprentice Growers $24K - $40K p yr (0-3 yrs exp "padawan".)

Helpers/Cleaners $12 p/ hr
Trimmaster $20 p / hr
Trimmer $200 p/lb
Fanleafer $10p/hr

so the only guys getting 10 an hour are the absolute bottom of the barrel workers. Even the "trimmaster" is making 20 an hour. the managers clearing a good 100k...the actual growtender can make up to MILLION A YEAR according to moonshine...

so if you dont believe him, or us, you are just beyond saving. good day yall!!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

i dont..
i just dont think they are the same as medicine...
they dont grow the same
they dont store the same
they dont have the same needs..

i dont take umbrage with his tomato comparison..
it's just apples and hippos (apples and oranges are more readily comparable)

Sound argument accept for the part you omit. If hippos were illegal, they'd be more expensive.

and the assertion that all any farmer does is pour water on a seed is foolish at best.

I think that's closer to your assertion.

I'm not a farmer in the business sense. But I grow both tomatoes and weed [and] feel tol's premise is logical. One either has to forget diverse market aspects or argue around them to suggest that 4x markup isn't unreasonable. Or that illegal vs whatever you want to call it won't affect price.

Your argument of medicine vs food has merit. But nobody said pot will be priced like tomatoes if and when we're legal. Some of us accept the logic that it'll be much less expensive when the niche evaporates.

i was flabbergasted that you would defend such idiocy but then i think your just being contrarian at this point.

you know better than

or at least i would think you would know better than all a med grower does is plant,water,harvest and become a millionaire...

You should know better than to introduce words into others' premise.

if you truly agree with TOL then i doubt you have ever grown a thing....

And your doubt constitutes nothing. We simply disagree about pricing aspects. That's all but make it as personal as you wish.

 

[dagnabit]

that said it all..



thanks 215

 

[dagnabit]

Sound argument accept for the part you omit. If hippos were illegal, they'd be more expensive.

they are
try importing one

as for the rest...
the rest is all in the thread already if you had bothered..

he did say MMJ should be priced like tomatoes
he did say they are just as simple to grow..

do you bother reading the thread?

try filtering. it makes it easier if that is the problem.

moonshine via 215 just settled the whole thing..

no need to continue...

if you disagree with the voice of experience...
well good luck

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

they are
try importing one

Lol, tell that to any zoo or preserve with hippos. I wonder what law they broke?

Oh, your suggesting I get a hippo myself. All I'd have to do is present my hippo credentials. But since we're just humoring your latest argument...

as for the rest...
the rest is all in the thread already if you had bothered..

he did say MMJ should be priced like tomatoes
he did say they are just as simple to grow..

do you bother reading the thread?

try filtering. it makes it easier if that is the problem.

I know you dag, you're far from immune to manipulating context.

moonshine via 215 just settled the whole thing..

no need to continue...

More macro substantiated by the micro.

if you disagree with the voice of experience...
well good luck

IMO, your gut doesn't have the experience of market aspects past and present. IMO, you substitute market principals with wishful thinking.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

that said it all..

Nah, just hard for you to refute w/o rewording in such a way that renders the comment different.

 

[dagnabit]

Nah, just hard for you to refute w/o rewording in such a way that renders the comment different.

yawn..
the thread is done
why troll?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Why purport subjective opinion, objective opinion and or deductive reasoning as fact?

Sorry, dag. Responding to a post isn't trolling. Especially when you respond to mine, lol. I didn't cover the argument with your blanket. You've substituted splitting hairs with grasping straws.

 

[dagnabit]

Why purport subjective opinion, objective opinion and or deductive reasoning as fact?

lonely much?


it's done little buddy..

move on.

moonshine sewed it up nice and tight...

or do you just need interaction?
or is it

it's done little guy..

see you on the next one.
you can not read that thread and make an ass of yourself there...

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Where's the projection-o-meter? You'd tilt that mofo.

 

[dagnabit]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DiscoBiscuit again.





poor thing...

somebody needs a hug