ph probs or deficiancy probs ???

[dansbuds]

i'm not good with the copy & paste thing so i'll describe my set up best as i can . i have 2 og kush plants 4 weeks into veg & 5 seedlings 3 weeks along ..all in 1 gallon hempy buckets 4 to 1 perilite/vermiculite mix . they are in my veg cabinet under a 150 watt hps light about 10" above the plants . i'm feeding them 1tsp of maxibloom per gallon in 2 1/2 gallon jugs of tap water .... bubbled for 24 hrs then ph'ed to piss yellow 6.0 ph ( ph pen on the way ... using gh liquid test kit now ) thats it ... tap & maxibloom @ 7 grams per gallon no additives till yesterday when i added 1 tsp of calmag per gallon by GH to the mix for what i'm thinking is a calmag deficiancy . temps are good at 78 degrees & 33.5 humidity . lights on 24/7 . the og plants are getting fed every 2 to 3 days the seedling maybe once a week when dry . i've had both aphids & spider mites in previous grows but have dealt with them & have even moved to a new residence recently so i know everything is sanitary & have no signs of bugs now .
but i'm not sure about the tap water here at the new house ... it tests fine @ about 7.5 (light green ) & when i add the maxibloom no PH down or up is needed ... but i do bubble it for 24 hrs just to make sure its all mixed good & getting any chlorine out . i've read that maxi has good amounts of calmag in it so not sure if i should be seeing the deficiancys i'm seeing .
but heres some pics of the leaves that are affected ... maybe you guys can give me an idea.

the first pics are the the OG plants in 4 weeks veg .they are brown spotted & some are dry & curling under leaves are yellowing too .

these are some of the seedlings . the leaves are just pale & yellowing no real brown spots or curling going on but still not right . 2 of the seedlings are fine .... no signs at all ..

any ideas would help ... as stated the only thing i've done so far is check the ph constantly & add calmag to the last feeding . but i read the thread where GH has had a bad batch of calmag & you can tell if its bad when its cloudy & of course the bottle i got is cloudy !! fuckin figures !! but i added it anyway hoping its ok but ... knowing my luck .. i just made it worse !!!

guys ... thanx in advance & if i think of anything else i'll add it in .

 

[Deft]

Whats your ventilation setup?

 

[dansbuds]

I have a 110 cfm fan pulling through a can 9000 25" filter with 2 4" x 8" passive vents cover by a furnace filter .... keeps my temps in check & gives me good air circulation . also have 2 small fans blowing air across the plants . humidity isa little low this time of year so i keep a bowl of water in the cab for moisture .

 

[Stress_test]

Do you have any more recent pics? LOL I hate them damn cameras that require a kid to set em.

It looks to me like maybe more than 1 problem but having no experience growing in perlite/vermiculite I really can't offer much advice.

Except that it does really show indications of serious over watering.

 

[dansbuds]

I know .. i really need a better camera !! those pics were from yesterday . it does look like more than 1 prob to me also which has me thinkin ph lockout but without a ph pen i have no way of testing the runoff yet 7 why i'm constantly checkin the ph of my water & nutes . plain tap water i have to ph down to get it at 6.0 but tap & nutes i don't need to ph at all it comes out at the right ph for me but i do bubble the water/nute mix for 24 hrs at least .

will try the wifes camera to see if i can get better pics .

This OG kush is a bushy little MOFO so its hard to get good pics but heres a few from her & she is the worst affected of the bunch .

 

[RedReign]

Looks like a potassium (K) deficiency to me.

I would check the ec of your tap water. If you don't have an ec meter, maybe a local hydro store can check it for you. If it is hard, and a majority of the hardness is calcium, the excessive calcium could be causing the K issues. I don't remember off the top of my head why calcium causes K issues, but you can find out with a quick search..

Also, you shouldn't need calmag with tap water and Maxibloom in most cases.

 

[Stress_test]

Okay that right there my friend is an advanced Potassium deficiency.

I still feel that there is something else going on though... I have seen advanced K def curl leaves like that but never that severe. I suggest dealing with the K def immediately and hopefully in the process somebody else will enlighten us.

I didn't go back and re-read your OP but have you flushed in the last few days? Cause it really does look like K def compounded with over watering. I have made that mistake myself before: You know seeing a problem and thinking that I overdosed em w/ nutes and then flush in an attempt to catch it, only to starve them further.

 

[dansbuds]

here at the new place i know my water is harder than the last spot so you might be right on track with that . whats the easiest way to boost the K in my feeding ?

 

[dansbuds]

nope haven't flushed yet .... should I ? then resume feeding .

 

[RedReign]

Adding K won't help, Maxibloom has all the K you need. The problem is that the excess calcium doesn't let the plant uptake the K.

I would buy some RO water, mix it with 1 tsp Maxibloom, ph it if nec., and give the girls a good flush with it. Give them a few days without any other changes, and you should see an improvement.

If that works, run that for veg. You'll probably need some cal/mag, about 150 ppm worth, in flower. Make sure you don't use cloudy calmag, it 'might' be OK, but it is translucent when it is bottled. Why take a chance?

Good luck.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Almost looks like calcium rust but less advanced areas appear to be affecting the margins like a K def. One of the pics is obviously N def at the bottom fans. IMO, you're feeding enough but you've got a lockout due to pH problems and or toxicity/lockout. You've possibly got root problems from water quality and or overwatering.

I'd consider three things. NEVER rest assured your pH meter is accurate. In a perfect world, pH meter manufacturers would sell them by the pair. Every time two readings don't jibe, at least one would need calibrating and probably both, lol. If it's a water problem, GH makes Flora Micro for hard water (you'd have to consider lucas or three-part instead of maxi.)

Your leaves have the appearance of too much water. If you've got a handle on that, disregard my interest. Otherwise, allow the buckets to dry more before watering. But don't let the medium dry enough to wilt the fans. Too much water can slow N uptake and you've got signs of N def down low. Improper drainage can cause root problems.

If it's not pH or root problems from too much water and or poor drainage, it's probably a toxicity in the medium. Checking the runoff pH and EC is a little better than measuring the input alone. Even with your inert mix, you (could) have root rot and acidic conditions. You could also have nute buildup.

It's usually in the pH and or EC. In every way, pH is more important than EC in your case because you're feeding maxi (good stuff.) A weak EC won't show visible symptoms like improper pH will. Your symptoms appear advanced, another indication of pH problems. (This assumes you don't have root problems.) Best wishes.

 

[Stress_test]

Thanks DB your diagnosis goes along with what I was thinking, but I wasn't sure and didn't want to confuse the issue even further.

dansbud I wouldn't flush just yet. I really do think that part of your problem can be attributed to over watering (maybe a large part).
I agree with DB; let em dry out a couple days and adjust ph with next feed/watering cycle with RO or distilled water . I would adjust ph on the input and then check it on drainage.
There are mixed ideas about flushing... Personally I would wait a couple days and dry em out some, then flush with a good balanced solution that I know for certain is right (no cloudy cal/mag etc.).
Some people like to flush and then let em dry out. But in your instance, I agree w/ DB, you're feeding sufficiently but are getting lock out from over watering with hard water.

 

[dansbuds]

well... thats what i was afraid of , bad tap water . looks like i have to switch over to RO water . i see alot of people mixing tap with RO to keep the calmag in the water instead of adding calmag , is that a good idea in my situation or just stick with the RO & add calmag .
i ordered another brand Calmag & threw the GH cloudy shit away , no sense in takin chances .
thanx guys I had a feelin it was my water situation here but this confirms it . new place new probs .... maybe someday i'll get this in control .

 

[dansbuds]

any comments or suggestions about mixing tap & RO .... good idea or no ?

 

[olddirtybastard]

its a good idea sure, but you should look into getting a ppm meter and testing your water for hardness. my city water is 150 ppm and has never given me problems, my friends water on the other hand is 600ppm out of the tap and i wouldnt wash my balls with it.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

If you've got municipal water, chlorine has a slight blue hue in a white plastic container. Chloramine is slightly yellow. You can evaporate chlorine easy. When little bubbles of chlorine gas cling to the container wall, tap the container and bubbles will rise to the top and dissipate. I even retired my bubbler as it's not necessary to dechlorinate.

I've read you can filter chloramine with an RO system.

Some smaller growers use a Brita filter or the like to filter dissolved particles. This might help a hard water problem.

 

[dansbuds]

just went & got 10 gallons of RO from the machine at the local supermarket .... should hold me over till the RO filter i ordered should get here .

this one ....http://www.purewaterclub.com/
bought the RFO-6B for 85$ should be here next week .

 

[dansbuds]

the RO from the machine is a PH of 6.5 & a PPM of 20 .... does this sound right ? i thought it was supposed to be 0 ppm & ph of 7 .

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

any comments or suggestions about mixing tap & RO .... good idea or no ?

It'll depend on your tap quality and the ratio of tap to ro. With multiple factors affecting your grows at the same time, it's hard to tell what works versus what doesn't unless factors are isolated. Side-by-side comparisons and or written records of previous grows help to determine what works best. You'll have to adjust slightly for different strains and most of us grow respective strains better the second time around.

If your tap works out in the mix, consider pH in your ratio equation. If you feed any plain water cycles, consider the mix that hits the correct pH range. Otherwise you'll have to use pH adjustments or nute quantity variations to get the pH you want.

 

[dansbuds]

Thanx DB ... i think i'll just stick with the RO .... my tap water is so bad why mess with it is my thinking .
thanx guys ... i'll get back to you in a few days to let ya know how everything is going now that i have this figured out .