Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

[GeorgeSmiley]

Mites and aphids don't move like that. They also dont have that style of feelers thingys out front. No tits on the rounded back. These things are elongated with a smooth rear with no points. They are fast and I've had them for MONTHS and am pulling a great harvest.

SO....

They don't look like root aphids, I've had 2 people study the same pics and look through the same scope and they say nothing like an RA and everything like a hypoapsis

They aren't moving like root aphids. Not the ones in the video

I have them and my plants are not sick and I have no gnats. The population ebbs and flows. I'm adding them from the flowering room to the vegging plants. That's how confident that my bugs are beneficial

I did not introduce them to my grow either

I had root aphids, I got rid of the root aphids. If you have sick plants then it could be from the gnats or some sort of bacterium etc, but the mites follow gnats.

Sorry I'm late to your situation but do you have any other bug pics? I saw the mite and a couple gnats on a card in a pic?

EITHER WAY, if you don't know then you should treat. The pyganic is excellent and it worked very well for me to get rid of RA's, these mites and gnats when I got my recent grow started beginning last year.

So if you have other bugs then def let me see them because I'd hate to be confusing the situation.

Good luck
Smiley

 

[Budsworth]

Mites and aphids don't move like that. They also dont have that style of feelers thingys out front. No tits on the rounded back. These things are elongated with a smooth rear with no points. They are fast and I've had them for MONTHS and am pulling a great harvest.

SO....

They don't look like root aphids, I've had 2 people study the same pics and look through the same scope and they say nothing like an RA and everything like a hypoapsis

They aren't moving like root aphids. Not the ones in the video

I have them and my plants are not sick and I have no gnats. The population ebbs and flows. I'm adding them from the flowering room to the vegging plants. That's how confident that my bugs are beneficial

I did not introduce them to my grow either

I had root aphids, I got rid of the root aphids. If you have sick plants then it could be from the gnats or some sort of bacterium etc, but the mites follow gnats.

Sorry I'm late to your situation but do you have any other bug pics? I saw the mite and a couple gnats on a card in a pic?

EITHER WAY, if you don't know then you should treat. The pyganic is excellent and it worked very well for me to get rid of RA's, these mites and gnats when I got my recent grow started beginning last year.

So if you have other bugs then def let me see them because I'd hate to be confusing the situation.

Good luck
Smiley

No. Gnats. I think they are completely gone after the treatments.

I saw these crawlers the last crop which yellowed terribly early...and in a MAJOR way...and found these and I thought perhaps they were root aphids. Sprayed the soil with pyrethrum last time and I didn't see them until now.

I did go from FFOF to Roots Organic on the last crop. The yellowing could have been me not timing my N very well with the new soil. (I use Humboldt Organics line. However, instead of humboldt honey...I use unsulfured black strap molasses. I use the rest of the line though)

They started to do it again early this crop but this time I sprinkled a couple of Tbls of Marine Cuisine when it appeared to be getting bad. Burned the very tips of the leaves, but the plants greened up enough to make it through. I'll be using this early in bloom this next time and I will hopefully avoid massive yellowing during the stretch.

But with the rise in fungus gnats...I just noticed these little buggers a week ago. I thought perhaps they might be hypoapsis, as the fungus gnat population got high...and it would be perfect conditions for them to flourish. But I hadn't introduced them myself, so I was skeptical.

So...I'm just all sorts of mixed up here. Originally thinking this last summer I had RA's (which were actually basically the same thing as in the video I posted) because of the yellowing. I think because I up-potted the plants and allowed them a month to veg before flipping that the N in the soil had been wasted. They hit stretch and fizzled and yellowed.

The plants in veg looking freaking fantastic. And those are the plants I recorded that video of. Probably the healthiest I've gotten a good size group. I think my SC99's might need some Cal-mag...but that's about it.

I think the fungus gnat population is now wiped out...but I need to put up some new sticky traps and hopefully I'll be able to say definitively in about a week.

 

[GeorgeSmiley]

Sounds like you're on the right track. Get some gnatrol off ebay for the gnats and treat with preventative drenches. I keep a mosquito dunk in my resi as well.

You can definitely kill first and ask questions later with most bugs in this hobby of ours lol

But, if you're unsure between your own eyes and research and what I and others are telling you then go with your gut and keep killing. Mark on your calender to re-treat in spaced intervals til you know you're bug free.

HTH
Smiley

 

[RetroGrow]

I used bayer advanced...with imidacloprid. Two treatments. Are imid and imidacloprid different?

Either way...killed the gnats...didn't phase the little buggers in the soil.

"Imid" is short for "imidacloprid".
If it didn't kill them, they weren't root aphids.

 

[RetroGrow]

But then again...they also look like these:

The hypoaspis miles

http://www.biobest.be/v1/en/producten/nuttig/hypoaspis_miles.htm

And those are good guys. Anyone tell the difference?

I mean...the plants seem fine on nutrient uptake. They are green and lush. I would think a root aphid infestation would ruin a plants ability to uptake nutrients. I'd assume there would be a lot of yellowing. There hasn't been any.

If you had root aphids, your plants would be showing damage, yellowing, wilting, brown spots, etc.

 

[Tela]

anyone fighting these things might find this interesting

http://www.clemson.edu/extension/rowcrops/pest/files/2011pmh_tobacco_insectctrl.pdf

they really will spray it on tobacco with a PHI of 14 days!

 

[mj23]

How close do you really have to look to make sure you have these? The system I'm dealing with is DWC, and the root mass has been looked through briefly with a 30x scope and nothing was found. From what I understand from this thread by the time the plants are showing symptoms the aphids would be almost visible to the naked eye, correct? All the pics I've seen they don't exactly look microscopic so a look through with your eyes and a 30x should let you know if you have them or not? These plants are showing Ca and Mg def but the pH and EC are perfect...so going by all these posts root aphids would be likely, just can't find any!

Can people who had them in hydro..DWC in particular, chime in as to how hard they are to find and where to look?

Thanks guys

This is exactly my problem as well. I have all the same symptoms.. Mine are doing it in Veg though. it starts in the shade leaves in between the veins then in 1-2 days its curled drided out and brown. Its not PH, overwatering and nurtients. Deficiency is near impossible.They have tons of trace nutrients etc. They are weeds, not orchids. I CANT SEE ANY APHIDS OR BUGS, flyers, crawlers.My roots are snow white! Ive read the first 17 pages and all sound just like mine besides everyone else "sees something". Im so close to scrapping everything. Im no rookie ive done this many times with no issues. Im going to try an IMID and see if it destroys my phantom pests. So frustrating

 

[RetroGrow]

This is exactly my problem as well. I have all the same symptoms.. Mine are doing it in Veg though. it starts in the shade leaves in between the veins then in 1-2 days its curled drided out and brown. Its not PH, overwatering and nurtients. Deficiency is near impossible.They have tons of trace nutrients etc. They are weeds, not orchids. I CANT SEE ANY APHIDS OR BUGS, flyers, crawlers.My roots are snow white! Ive read the first 17 pages and all sound just like mine besides everyone else "sees something". Im so close to scrapping everything. Im no rookie ive done this many times with no issues. Im going to try an IMID and see if it destroys my phantom pests. So frustrating

RAs are hard to see. They are very small. You need a loupe.

 

[OsWiZzLe]

root aphids mann...fuck them...grow from seed

 

[puff adder]

Both times I discovered root aphids, it was alongside a big explosion of fungus gnats. I think they often go together, the RA kill roots, then the fungus gnats set in. Both times, using Bayer tree and shrub killed both the RA and the gnats.

The RA crawlers vary in size, but are bigger than spider mites, the flyers are roughly the same size as fungus gnats, with longer wings. The RA flyers bodies also range in shape, from fat to looking VERY much like fungus gnats.
There are a few different crawlers as well, all the same bug, different life stages.

Both times I discovered RA, they were pouring out of the holes in the pots, no loupe needed, i thought I'd spilled coco everywhere.

The RA flyers also tend to stick to some upper buds, something I have never seen fungus gnats do. The wings are shimmery, and much longer than gnat wings.

 

[beta]

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[beta]

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[RockyMountainHi]

how would you sterilize the soil?sorry if this is a stupid question ive just never seen this.
thanx in adavance,
peace-T-

First- ya gotta check and see if you have male or female soil,,,,,,


oK - I couldn't resist a cheap shot.

Can you say Baked?

very moist soil heated to a spefific temprature for a spefific period of time. It is possible to kill pathogens and not aniliate the benificials.
According to the "book" heating for several hours to 170f can be as effective as boiling.

problem is, those little germs don't read the damn book, or if you don't heat thoroughly..

edit 4 u Tonatiuh- post 1041 in this thread - there is more to be found elsewhere,,,,

You wouldn't sterilize, from what I know sterilizing can take all the beneficial stuff and microbes in a soil away too. You want to pasteurize it, which can be done by putting your damp soil in a oven bag from the store and keeping watch on it with a thermometer in the oven, cook it at 170F (any higher then 180F and you start crossing the fine line between sterilization and pasteurization) for a hour and let cool.

Ideally your getting the bugs out of the soil that people seem to have problems with. At the same time it gets rid of trich, and some other fungi matter and probably other beneficial organisms. I never have bugs in my FFOF. So I never pasteurize my soil.

Ok readers - I've been dealing with a sick garden - had a serious thrip outbreak, it's been KO'd with Spinosad - I've had what I thought were gnats - but may be gnats and RAphids. All the plants are in veg state - seems Bayer Tree and Shrub is my best choice - I mixed to the 1-2/3 Tblspoons per 5 gal. water directions on the package. and here I'm seeing doseages 3 and 4 times stronger.

How strong does it need to be?


I'v also noticed another Bayer product mentioned with the same active ingredient - but a a lower percentage than the tree and shrub juice, just to keep everybody on the same page...

Addtn edits -

I lowered the pH with the usual amount of down, - and added a light squrt of Dawn dishsoap - garden is respondint well - according to package - this is also effective aginst thrips, but for a thrip only issue - I would use Spinosad. due to toxicidy issues.

 

[tr1ck_]

What is the best way to determine if you have root aphids? I am using FFoF as a base, and I have read a few threads recently about people getting root aphids from that soil. Do you have to physically remove your plant from the bot and look at the root ball under a microscope?

 

[Hemp_Star]

I would put some yellow stick strips on the surface and look for the lil bastards corpses stuck to it. They can be a clear yellow or orange to black. The black ones are the matured ones and u will prob see them start to sprout wings to infiltrate. They look like fungus gnats but more wasp like.

 

[plumbum]

question to spleebale or anybody who has strange looking spheres on their leaves.. i've used to have some soil mites, i've never seen root aphids, but my symptoms and unexplained deficiencies looks a lot similar to what might be caused by root aphids.. at this point i don't see any bugs in my coco except hypoaspis miles that i've introduced myself, but i am still fighting the same problem.. plants are not looking healthy.. i took my 30x microscope and examined top and the bottom of the leafs.. i found many strange egg like looking "things" everywhere.. at first i thought that it might be an egg of some small bug.. size of it looks way smaller then the one from spider mite.. if i compare it's similar to the size of trichome.. but i see none of the bugs crawling anywhere.. now i am starting to think that it might be some kind of pathogen or virus.. does anybody have seen anything similar.. i would like to hear your thoughts.. here are few pictures.. i've also started a post at Infirmary:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=204383

 

[EclipseFour20]

Plum...don't know--lots of insect critters out there and I speculate many of them hitch a ride in our hair, clothes, dogs, shoes--who knows.

As mentioned earlier, I have the most difficult situation with a perpetual grow and RAs have been squatting in my veg & flower for more days that I can remember; too long. I can say this, my plants are healthy--and the RAs love my soil. I have be trying various regimes--and I think one of the crazy routines might have worked. I will post results shortly--soon as I am certain of a possible "cause and effect".

That said, attached is a report titled, Environmental Fate of Imidacloprid, (product of California Department of Pesticide Regulation) that concluded:

"The hydrolysis half-life of imidacloprid can range from 33–44 days at pH 7 and 25ºC. The aqueous photolysis half-life is less than 3 hours. Imidacloprid has a photolysis half-life of 39 days at the soil surface, with a range of 26.5–229 days when incorporated into the soil. Persistence in soil allows for continual availability for uptake by plant roots. The combination of low Koc between 132–310 and high water solubility of 514 ppm suggests a potential to leach to ground water.

Organic fertilizers, such as chicken and cow manure, increased the pesticide adsorption to the organic matter and increased its half-life. Half-lives ranged from 40 days when no organic fertilizers were used to 124 days when cow manure was used."

So repeated Imid applications might be appropriate for hydro--but for soil/soil-less, maybe one application soon as they sprout roots (transplant from clone machine--seedling soil) is the trick. Especially if Imid can remain in healthy soil longer after the harvest date.

More pesticide Environmental Fate reports at--
http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/emon/pubs/envfate.htm

Good technical information with bonus references.
Cheers!

 

[Dephect]

Just thought I would let everyone know I am still battling these fuckers. I was able to get them out of flower with the last crop. I have been working to get them out of veg. I have been trying Azamax and it seems to be doing good if you stick with the treatments followed up by a treatment of hygrozyme. My next option is going to be to just clone all my moms and start over if they persist.

The best way to find RA in your DWC is to look at your roots when the water level goes down. They will crawl down the roots, they are completely visible to me, I wear glasses but I don't have super vision, they are a mix of black and white little bugs that look like mini beetles. Some times they have wings.

To find them in your soil, you need to let it dry out. They hate dry soil and will scatter around it trying to find moisture. Stare at your soil for a few minutes. Be patient and watch for a little, tap the plants container and kind of push the dry top soil to one side. In my soil if I have them for sure, and the leaves are all ready showing signs you'll see them crawling on top of your soil. They can push perlite before I have seen them.

The crazy thing is I have been getting a mix of the mature green aphids and the mature black/red aphids, along with some flyers lately.

Oh well I am determined to get past this, even if it means starting over. One place they can't get is my aero cloner.

 

[lilmiss]

^^ so you say you are willing to start over? That is what I'd suggest. I fought them for upwards of 6 months before I gave up the ghost. It broke my heart, I lost alot of stuff. In hindsight I'd do it all again. Just turn off all the lights and stay out for a few days. That is the hardest part. In a few days, go in, clean up, bleach clean everything, everywhere, hang new panda, new pots, etc. and get back at it anew. Everything fresh and sterile, thats the ticket. We'll be starting over very soon, my man just built a new room in the garage and had it insulated, wired a box up already, waiting on the hvac guy to hook up the mini split, totally sealed the new room is, beans waiting to be popped, can't wait. The sweetest part for me is I won't be fighting them anymore.

 

[lilmiss]

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