raising and lowering ph

[Mitakoye Oyasin]

For all the people who think that sounds like crazy too much ph up to be using in a 32 gal resivor its only because u never tried to raise that much water. I too have used just a couple of drops to raise my 5 gallon reservoirs. Then I started using bigger resivors and now I mix in a 50 gallon reservoir and it isnt hard to understand if its hydro or not cause he has repeatedly said it is soil. Just because u hear someone mention reservoir doesnt mean u should assume hydro. If u were needing 50 gallons of water to hand water half a gallon or so at a time to individual contaniers full of soil or whatever medium u were using what would u use to mix ur nutes in??? A reservoir is what I believe u would call it. When I bring my ph up in my 50 gallon tub from 5.3 to 5.6 it takes about 50 ml or so, now I am guessing at that because I just pour it in check it and if need be pour some more goal not to go over 6.5 . I grow in a soiless medium-ProMix HP so I dont need my ph 6.5 but I can tolerate it that high and by feel and sight and years of doing it I can usually pour just the right ammont the first time to at least be in the right range and usualy between 5.6 and 5.8 I guess its about 50 ml and I have a good guess on that also becasue I pour and measure out milliliters in ammount at least that and larger mostly every night and have for years. Im not trying to get as high as him and Im using natural well water right off the mountian mixed with the water from my dehumidifier so this makes a differance as well. Back in the days when I used hard city water it took evern more ph up and sorry, I don't know of anything cheaper for u to use but will be checking this thread to see cause I could use it myself although I dont use as much as u do, I don't have to raise my ph as much as u do either becasue Im using pro mix plus it has lime added in it. Have u ever tried letting ur water sit over night with benificial fungi in it??? It deffinatly changes the ph drasticaly and I cant remember for sure but I think its up up up that it takes it. I know every time I make a mix and ph it just perfect and let it sit with airstone in it overnight it changes my ph tremedously and in just one night but not at one time, its the biolagical activity that does it. B-Kind

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

MO is right, you don't necessarily need to raise your liquid pH up to 6.x pH.

It's as much or more what you're pouring into. Ever done a runoff test prior to planting? It gives an idea of how much dolomitic lime to add. A typical bag of soil less potting mix can measure 5.x pH. A quart of GH pH UP might buffer your res but it would do little to buffer a 5.x mix.

 

[stihgnobevoli]

like i said i wasnt trying to be an asshole, just seemed like you weren't listening to the questions or the answers we were giving. i thought you said you were using 3/4 of a bottle and you buy it 10 liters at a time, dyslexia.

like i said before, if you lime your soil you wont have to worry about the ph in your water. lime neutralizes. good luck to ya.

 

[IncredibowlBoss]

Anyone tried the Mad Farmer Get Up & Get Down? (http://www.somocohydro.com/mfgdq.html)

I've also read a lot about folic & humic acid to control pH...

I've been using baking soda & vinegar (b/c I'm usually just pHing down), but I'm considering these alternatives.

 

[Hold Your Fire]

This is the brand I use, for ph adjustment.
It's from Earth Juice.
They state, that it's organic.
This is the ph up.
http://www.amazon.com/Hydro-Organics-Earth-Juice-pH-1lb/dp/B001TNEP2G
I use the ph down, and have had the same 1 lb. container for a while now.
It seems to take very little, to do any adjusting. A pinch per gallon, with a starting ph of over 7.

 

[ganjah shaman]

mo and db i really appreciate your intelligent response and depth that you answered my question your right mo i did state that i was growing in soil and this is also the indoor soil grow thread but yah i got it now guys i appreciate it and thx to midnight and !!! i appreciate you guys help
peace out

 

[ganjah shaman]

to mo i mixed my soil with perolite vermiculite and dolomite,that covers drainage,retention and ph buffer.my soil runoff is between 6.3 and 6.5 which my plants seem to thrive on,however im one of those guys who believes that you have to balance your nutrient solution ph and your clear to ensure that you have a healthy soil environment.I know that dolomite acts as a buffer ive used it on out door grows many time and have used it as part of soil composition on many occasions as well,but if you think about how much your ph changes with the addition of nuets,do you really want to dump a nuet solution with a ph of 5.5 in to your medium.adjusting your ph for nuets and water just seems to me to use even more care in my soil environment and ensures that my plants enjoy a very healthy root environment,there is less chance of nuet lockout this way and less chance that a plant will experience any kind of hinderence in its uptake of nuets so even tho dolomite acts as a soil buffer i like the added protection of a balanced nutrient solution as it ensures better nuet uptake as the water is part of the nuet delivery system.Yet even tho ive know about dolomite as a soil buffer i never knew you could use it as a ph raiser in water .Im gonna pick some up and test it as to amounts used and as to how much effect what im also going to try calcium carbonate as well. i will post the results of my test when i complete them.Again i would like to thank everyone for there responses.
peace

 

[Scrogerman]

3/4 quart! no way bro, something is wrong, very very wrong!

i use 1-3mls phosphoric acid to lower my PH from 8 to 5.5 in a 70 litre Res(with nutes added first) & if i ever need to raise it id use Silicon or if i really had to PH up potassium hydroxide.(hydro)

Citric acid to lower PH of solutions irrigating in soil. Silicon to raise PH of solutions, it aint gonna cost much at all, if it is something is wrong!

2 x 32 gal res's aint that much, should not be using that much PH-Up every time anyway. sorry if ive missed anything!

After reading your thread it seems nuts to me you are having to use so much PH up?

 

[StickyIcky29A]

I came in here from the main page, had no idea this was soil thread...
Res is definitely a hydro term. What do you call 32 gallons of nutes or clear water? A barrel of water....

Also the anger comes from confusion. When you post try using periods and separating sentences and paragraphs. Your posts are very difficult to read. They are just one big run on sentence.

I do notice in a 5 gal the amount of PH down I use is less than the amount of PH up I would need to move it the same amount. It's considerable. But for using almost a quart sounds a bit extreme. Are you sure you aren't buying pints? Might sound like a dumb question, but I gotta ask.

I would calibrate my PH pen, test the water before I added anything and record it. Then I would add the first nute and PH it again, record. Repeat for everything you add. This will show you if one of them if drastically changing the PH.


Also what the hell are you doing growing indoor, in dirt, in Humboldt? Especially something so big you need 2 32 gallon "reservoirs". Sorry but your whole story sounds fishy. But on the off chance you're legit I tried anyway.

Be easy all.

 

[StickyIcky29A]

Oh yea, how about your EC, PPM? Before and after?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

...i have 2 32 gal res one for nuet one for clear so it takes 3/4 for the nuet salution...

If your using 24 oz (3/4 quart) in 32 gallons, that's ~4.5 tsp of pH up per gl of nutes.

ok so im using water from the house it has a high clorien content so i let it sit for a couple days to air out it usually reads 8.3 and after i add my nuets it goes down to around 5.5...

That's roughly the same ballpark I'm in, (up to that point.) But I only have to use ~5.5 ml GH pH UP (@ ~1.7EC lucas)

I'm not sure what ec/ppm you're feeding but you're using ~4x the amount of pH up.

these are the nuets dyna grow dyna bloom maxi crop open sesme super thrive and somtime grow big in place on dyna grow, so this is all i got for you guys nothing fishy about it it is just taking a lot to raise it back up.

Try Advanced Nutrients pH UP. Might be cheaper in the long run. Double check your pH meter. It's a good idea to have a backup, let's you know when one (or both) meter reading(s) is whacked.

To be honest this is the first time ive ran across this problem so if you guys got any advise i would be greatful im using general hydro

Retrace your steps. There's no reason you should need ~4.5 teaspoons of pH up per gallon of nutes, especially when your pre-adjusted pH reads 5.5.

If by chance everything you say is correct, why don't you buy it a gallon at a time? Or 5 gal?

 

[1quixotix]

Mentally or literally tear your whole system down.
Figure out your starting water.
Start anew with a lot simpler approach.

In the short term if you don't figure out what is wrong with how you are doing things now, silicon to ph up.

Best of luck with your outcome.

 

[ganjah shaman]

i have a pretty interesting feeding regiment right now my plants are getting a 31-82-46 in combined nuets p and k will change week 3 of flower and then again in week 5 and then clear till harvest for the last 3 weeks,these plants have actually been pushed with high concentrations of nuets since seedling,i believe that the plant can take as much nuets as it can get just not all at once,but if you increase exponentially throughout your grow you will see increase in yields like you have never seen,results may very of course but im pulling around 13 lbs under 5 400 watts in an 9x9 box.my whole grow would be considered unorthodox by many even down to the way the grow room is set up,ive been involved with the grow scene in Humboldt and Mendocino cali for several years now and me and my friends have developed some very unique ideas on environment and grow room set up as well as nutritional feed schedule's.we all pull monster crops of dank buds but you cant know everything ie the dolomite lime deal here,
you know ive went to like 200 disco biscuit shows over the last several yrs lol.im very pH conscious so i have drops strips a digi and soil tester it really comes down to how well your plants can absorb there nuets and this is where pH is critical,this plant is astounding and ive seen it pushed to act in amazing ways
and sticky icky man my family has been in the farming bizz since 1797 we have a huge farm in ill and do you know what it has on it reservoirs huge reservoirs that hold water for irrigation,reservoir is not a hydro term,its a water holding area term,the term existed long before hydro was invented.so get it right and your late i pretty much learned what i needed to know from DB midnight and MO

 

[Sgt.Stedenko]

13 lbs from 2,000 watts or 2.94 grams per watt.
Allow me to put on my boots.
Shit's getting deep.

 

[Scrogerman]

(edits)
or do you mean 5400w? i think he means this!

You gotta show us all now man 13lbs(6kgs approx or around 210oz's) is a Bumper"!! that does work out to a devilsih 66.6 wspf, sounds about right in a 9x9!! (1.1 gpw)-this is around my average too(1.1-1.3gpw).

anyway just to reitirate on PH Up, if you cant find a cheap source of Silicon(im sure this would really sort you out) id use Potassium hydroxide myself, especially if i was having this kind of issue.
I think the GH stuff your using contains Pot Hydrx(KOH) & Potassium Carbonate(K2CO3), isnt it a mix of the 2?
Maybe something stronger &or more concentrated is in order. You could even go with Potassium Sillicate & Potassium hydroxide, just a thought! You just need something more concentrated!

Hope you get to the bottom of it mate! Best of luck to ya!

 

[ganjah shaman]

13 lbs from 2,000 watts or 2.94 grams per watt.
Allow me to put on my boots.
Shit's getting deep.

i also have 4 t-5 at center wall but i have a special kind of reflection on all the walls ,floor and ceiling thats better than mylar and this is 40 plants 10 weeks veg and 10 weeks flower,and 13 lbs is the best ive pulled,it is because of the intense supplemental lighting as well as the carbon plus a balanced diet.Its not so unusual bro i know peeps pulling better than this,my bro just pulled 18 lbs off of a 600 watt 5 lighter with just about the same room set up.ill be honest bro there is a lot of great info on these forums but there is a lot of bs to,and personally kicking it with great growers for over 12 yrs in northern cali has tought me a lot.my plants take 2 times the amount of nuets that other peeps do and there carbon intake is 2 times greater than the air,the way my room is set up maximizes utilization of constant intake for continual air exchange except for carbon exchange which is 3 times a day at 1 and 1/2 hrs,my environment is totally controlled,light heat cold humidity air,they get exactly what i want them to get it when i want them 2,combined my lights are generating about 300,000 lumans and tripple that in suplimental lighting,so really its like i got a 10 lighter in my room.so do you still need your bootz? lol.
peace

 

[Sgt.Stedenko]

5400 watts would make more sense.
Who said grammer, punctuation and spelling isn't impt.

 

[Sgt.Stedenko]

Congratz on you mad growing skillz

 

[ganjah shaman]

look at it in this light all my plants are 6 feet tall and they will produce about 4 oz each that cant be hard to beilive but ive also worked in gardens that have 10 lb plants 18 feet tall,out doors of course.nor calls got the cronic and hands down we grow the best herb in the world.But hey to all peeps believe what you want.
peace

 

[Sgt.Stedenko]

Try using AN pH up/down.
They are more concentrated.