Organics in a bottle? 1st time organic grower.

[Sam the Caveman]

 

[SmokinErb]

Sam, even bagged compost from a nursery? Aren't those things sterilized? I've spent a good part of today reading in this forum (minus the times when the power goes out - damn these ice storms!) and I'm starting to get an understanding of it all. I had no idea that worm castings would give me the microbes I needed. I'll look into the bio-tone next.

Lazy, your 2 cents are more than welcome. I've been following your grow in the vert section for quite some time now, hell you're one of the people that helped convinced me to go vert in the first place! I'll more or less take your advice as it is - it'll either be true organics, or I'll stick with some type of synthetic fertilizer. I'm loving the idea of recycling my soil already pre-mixed. I haven't looked into it enough, but if its what it sounds like. . .that'll save me a fortune over years of growing. By the way, your grows? Jaw dropping to say the least. I can only one day hope to have a basement like yours.

 

[SmokinErb]

Organics can be quite cheap. JayKush does his grows for pennies outdoors.

Now I assume you already have all the equipment (lights/ballasts, pots, fans, etc....), so your only real cost is the soil mix and nutrients, right?

There's plenty of good recipes for soil mixes, and it isn't hard to mix up some on a tarp. How many gallons of soil mix would you need for your plants?

Here's my recommendation. Follow a soil mix like the one listed in this thread already. Where in the country are you exactly? Are you in the NW? Most of the ingredients are easy to source.

If you choose to use synthetics, which most people in this forum abhor for a variety of reasons, then use them very very light. There's some ethical/environmental reasons for not using synthetics, but in small doses you won't hurt your plants or micro-life (I know MM will disagree with me on this). I see a lot of giant pumpkin growers doing a combination of organics and synthetics and their getting good results. However, they're not smoking or ingesting their final plant either...

Anyway, I just want to encourage your to go for it. The costs are really minimal, as you can re-use your soil. You may have a bit of a learning curve, but there's a ton of good info. on here and it's worth the time and effort in the long run. Go organic for your health's sake!

I have zero equipment. Not even a bucket Long story behind that - all my fault, of course. Broke my own rules and lost a couple thousand dollars worth of stuff in the process. My budget for this grow is currently at $1,200 and climbing at about $100 weekly. Too many variables to determine when my grow will start (sometime between April and August I imagine.) I intend to be doing a 800w CMH stealth cab with a 4' T5 fixture (6 to 8 bulbs) for mothers and clones.

As for how much soil, it's going to depend on a lot. I'm still undecided if I'm going to run a vert SOG in 6 or 7" square pots, or grow fewer bigger plants in bigger pots. Basically it'll either be ~10-12 plants in 3 gallon smart pots, or about 36-48 SOG style plants. Plus mothers/clones.

Location is in the Great Lakes area. I really don't like calling it the midwest when I'm east of the Mississippi.

And dude? I was convinced before I read this post Everything I eat is organic. Well 90% of it. And while on the surface it sounds more complicated. . . the more I read, the simpler it seems. The PROCESS is more complex. IE, you're feeding the plants indirectly. But the actual work involved seems easier.

 

[SmokinErb]

Lazy, You are learning. Way to be! BTW one can get good results with a freshly mixed soil provided weird nutrients are not applied but it does get better with subsequent crops/plantings.

When I have time, I'll be kicking your ass all over the place in the other forum....just too busy right now.

Can you, or anyone, elaborate on the term "weird?"

 

[Microbeman]

Can you, or anyone, elaborate on the term "weird?"

bottled/bagged mixed stuff with catchy names

 

[SmokinErb]

Liquid Karma okay?

 

[Microbeman]

Liquid Karma okay?

sorry i got so far removed from commercial stuff that i'm the wrong person to ask.

 

[SmokinErb]

I've heard of your grows. I've got to give respect where its due to say the least. I don't even know what Liquid Karma is except 90% of what I've read says to use it. I think that it also said blackstrap molasses and uhm. . . some sort of acid were an acceptable replacement?

I'm only a few hours into my organics research. I know it shows. I do try, though.

Or better yet, would you happen to have a grow journal?

 

[Microbeman]

Sorry again. I had to give up growing due to a giant visit from people in uniforms who said my contract was not valid. I ran a charity which provided about 8 pounds a month medical grade organic to another charity. I did post a couple photos here of my organic vertical bin technique

 

[SmokinErb]

Oh man, that's so unfortunate. We need more people like you in the community. Seriously, donating 8 pounds a month to charity? I'm impressed. Extremely impressed.

 

[Scrappy4]

using a simple pre-ferted soil mix, not too rich, has to be the simplest way to do organics - or growing in general i'd say. there no law to say you have to use teas, water is fine and a bottle of simple organic bloom ferts if they start to yellow a bit early. soil or soil-less mix doesnt have to be aged really or recycled to perform well.

VG

Excellent advice, VG. Simple works very well. I've yet to top my simplest grows, despite all the latest greatest stuff we read about, and try. I find getting overly complicated at times in life, and in growing, can be more taxing and less rewarding....scrappy

 

[Microbeman]

Oh man, that's so unfortunate. We need more people like you in the community. Seriously, donating 8 pounds a month to charity? I'm impressed. Extremely impressed.

Sorry for the misconception. It was not donated but sold inexpensively and I paid people on staff with the charity for their labor. It was nonprofit but not nonmoney.

 

[redneck shogun]

We need more people like you in the community. Seriously, donating 8 pounds a month to charity?

Right on, guys like MM are inspirational and show us the path. The whole community is upside down IMO but a few can inspire many. The fact that I can grow with cheap or free materials that are available to me in nature makes it much easier to be charitable.

As for the grow store and dispensary paradigm, they aren't very helpful to you if you are sick, on SSI or slave at minimum wage. We need better solutions outside of consumerism and throwing money at problems.

 

[CT Guy]

I have zero equipment. Not even a bucket Long story behind that - all my fault, of course. Broke my own rules and lost a couple thousand dollars worth of stuff in the process. My budget for this grow is currently at $1,200 and climbing at about $100 weekly. Too many variables to determine when my grow will start (sometime between April and August I imagine.) I intend to be doing a 800w CMH stealth cab with a 4' T5 fixture (6 to 8 bulbs) for mothers and clones.

As for how much soil, it's going to depend on a lot. I'm still undecided if I'm going to run a vert SOG in 6 or 7" square pots, or grow fewer bigger plants in bigger pots. Basically it'll either be ~10-12 plants in 3 gallon smart pots, or about 36-48 SOG style plants. Plus mothers/clones.

Location is in the Great Lakes area. I really don't like calling it the midwest when I'm east of the Mississippi.

And dude? I was convinced before I read this post Everything I eat is organic. Well 90% of it. And while on the surface it sounds more complicated. . . the more I read, the simpler it seems. The PROCESS is more complex. IE, you're feeding the plants indirectly. But the actual work involved seems easier.

I don't know if this helps, but a good online source is www.horticulturesource.com

Here's the Philips CMH bulbs for 52.49 each (good price). I'm going with these bulbs under a supersun2 for veg (though the bulb is excellent spectrum and could be used for flower from what I've read). Don't forget they need a magnetic ballast.

Went with the 1000W Digilux based on recommendations from Spurr. http://www.horticulturesource.com/c...9198/?osCsid=b6a81ef032eeec5d74fe4bd4b71c6e98

with a Lumatek digital ballast and the 8" Blockbuster reflector.

Just got these pots based on Spurr's recommendations as well.
http://www.horticulturesource.com/p...8816/?osCsid=b6a81ef032eeec5d74fe4bd4b71c6e98

They have excellent aeration and root pruning like the smart pots, but have rigid sides, which will allow you to move them without destroying soil porosity, much like the air pots, which are way too expensive.

Got a bunch of other stuff, all of it after researching quite a bit of what's out there. Send me a PM if you want a full list or I can be of any help.

 

[Metatron]

What up Erb?

I wish you luck on your organic journey. I started out hydro/bottles too but was drawn to organics. Theirs a lot to read but believe me once you start mixing your own soils and customizing your mix it overshadows bottled nutrition any day.

 

[SmokinErb]

I don't know if this helps, but a good online source is www.horticulturesource.com

Here's the Philips CMH bulbs for 52.49 each (good price). I'm going with these bulbs under a supersun2 for veg (though the bulb is excellent spectrum and could be used for flower from what I've read). Don't forget they need a magnetic ballast.

Went with the 1000W Digilux based on recommendations from Spurr. http://www.horticulturesource.com/c...9198/?osCsid=b6a81ef032eeec5d74fe4bd4b71c6e98

with a Lumatek digital ballast and the 8" Blockbuster reflector.

Just got these pots based on Spurr's recommendations as well.
http://www.horticulturesource.com/p...8816/?osCsid=b6a81ef032eeec5d74fe4bd4b71c6e98

They have excellent aeration and root pruning like the smart pots, but have rigid sides, which will allow you to move them without destroying soil porosity, much like the air pots, which are way too expensive.

Got a bunch of other stuff, all of it after researching quite a bit of what's out there. Send me a PM if you want a full list or I can be of any help.

Thanks a lot bro! I've done a 1,200w (800w CMH + 400w HPS) before with great results. The thing I love about CMH is they're extremely easy to cool, the buds put off more trich's than a standard HPS, and the differences I've seen between weight in terms of CMH vs HPS aren't even worth noting. Maybe a gram or three difference under one light. The CMH provides a much better bag appeal. I considered going back to just HPS bulbs, but for the time being, as I'm starting from scratch, I'd like to get a bulb I can veg and flower under, and then continue to use for veg once I get some bigger flowering lights. CMH fit that bill perfectly.

I've defnitely been looking into airpot alternatives, and I think you just gave me exactly what I was looking for. I honestly just wish they made those things in squares, but a circle pot works just fine.

I still love my magnetic ballasts. If they go bad? Open 'em up, buy a kit, and replace. I've never owned an electric one as of yet (even though I'm actually interested), this is mostly due to that I love my CMH bulbs. However, once my girl and I buy our own place, I'll be purchasing three or four 1kw lights to run a vertical stack. Can't do that in a rental, though.

Edit: Good price for the bulbs, but they charge a killing for the s/h. $30 more just for s/h. I bought mine last time from advancedtechlighting.com, same price for the bulb, $20 cheaper in shipping charges. I think it has to do with location, most likely.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

I've been using the CMH bulbs in the veg room for about a year. I'm more than pleased with the results.

I also root under these bulbs - I just place the covered tray over in the furthest corner of the room. Works fine.

CC

 

[CT Guy]

Thanks a lot bro! I've done a 1,200w (800w CMH + 400w HPS) before with great results. The thing I love about CMH is they're extremely easy to cool, the buds put off more trich's than a standard HPS, and the differences I've seen between weight in terms of CMH vs HPS aren't even worth noting. Maybe a gram or three difference under one light. The CMH provides a much better bag appeal. I considered going back to just HPS bulbs, but for the time being, as I'm starting from scratch, I'd like to get a bulb I can veg and flower under, and then continue to use for veg once I get some bigger flowering lights. CMH fit that bill perfectly.

I've defnitely been looking into airpot alternatives, and I think you just gave me exactly what I was looking for. I honestly just wish they made those things in squares, but a circle pot works just fine.

I still love my magnetic ballasts. If they go bad? Open 'em up, buy a kit, and replace. I've never owned an electric one as of yet (even though I'm actually interested), this is mostly due to that I love my CMH bulbs. However, once my girl and I buy our own place, I'll be purchasing three or four 1kw lights to run a vertical stack. Can't do that in a rental, though.

Edit: Good price for the bulbs, but they charge a killing for the s/h. $30 more just for s/h. I bought mine last time from advancedtechlighting.com, same price for the bulb, $20 cheaper in shipping charges. I think it has to do with location, most likely.

Gotcha. Send me a PM when you're ready to upgrade and I may have a few ideas to save you a few bucks....good luck with everything!

 

[SmokinErb]

Oh, I'M ready to. It's the old lady that's not. She's even talking me out of a vert set-up and going with a more traditional garden. I REALLY didn't want to spend money on a reflector, but I found a 36" cool tube that houses 2 lights. It comes with a removeable reflector, so I'll be able to turn it vertically once I get my 1kw's. Basically everything I'm buying now is for the purpose of the future. I know I could get better stuff for my next grow than what I will be getting, but I'm looking down the road in the long run.

So far I'm aiming for the following:

2x 400w SS-10 ballasts
Active Air 6" fan
Phresh 6x16" filter
36" dual bulb cool tube fitted with 2x CMH bulbs

All stuffed into a custom built stealth cab, I'm thinking 5'Lx2'Wx7'H built to look like a wardrobe armoire. I'd like to keep it 4' if possible, but a 36" tube that'll need 6" ducting on it to connect to the fan and the filter. . . not sure that'll be possible in 4" space.

It will be a totally self contained cab, all ballasts and everything will be inside. I'll be putting a veg compartment in to house a 4' T5 by the time the 12/12 flip comes, I'll be taking clones. Bonsai mums to keep a perpetual harvest going.

 

[mad librettist]

I hear you on the CMH. I put in my HPS bulb for the first time ever after having the MH in and thought "what happened to my beautiful plants?" They look all sickly to me.

I'm going to LED for veg, that will be even worse.