Gas is gonna go through the roof.....

[mocs0]

from what i've read, it's an enzyme process that breaks down cellulose to ferment-able sugars
these enzymes have been isolated, but are very expensive to produce
cracking sounds more like a high temperature process, that is what is done to oil products anyways, not sure what the numbers are on that process

Sounds like an excuse by oil company execs and the politicians in their pockets to me. But I don't know the science, so I could be wrong.

What I do know is these people like to use the hegelian dialectic to create a "problem" and then the solution miraculously benefits them. I assume that's the case here. When they say "it's not cost - effective", all I hear is "our friends in high places will lose money"

Doesn't heat break down cellulose into sugar? Isn't that the process behind sauteeing and roasting onions/peppers?

I bet Ford grew hemp for tire cord (before nylon came along in the 1930s.)

That could be one of the things he grew it for, the plant seems to have thousands of uses.

If you can make a car run on crude - burning feces and wood, there's gotta be something we can do in 2011 to make them run efficiently on hemp. Anything else would be uncivilized. They can bury their heads in the sand if they want, but I'm not impressed and I'm not fooled.

Look at some of the solutions proposed in this thread:

"I'd pay $100 a gallon if I have to"

"Nuclear!"

"Kill half the world's population!"

What a joke. If people don't know by now that politics is faker than professional wrestling, we're screwed. Peak oil is a fraud too. Rich get richer.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

That could be one of the things he grew it for, the plant seems to have thousands of uses.

You're right. In the auto biz, everything from tire cord, seat belts, carpet and upholstery need man made fiber. Under the hood, belts and hoses are fiber reinforced. Ford might not have had cloth seats and carpet in Model Ts but they still needed fiber to make some of their parts.

If you can make a car run on crude - burning feces and wood, there's gotta be something we can do in 2011 to make them run efficiently on hemp. Anything else would be uncivilized. They can bury their heads in the sand if they want, but I'm not impressed and I'm not fooled.

I'm with you. All this talk that green (anything) isn't feasible is hogwash. In addition, I think the peak oil crap is just that. We may have to drill deeper and in more dangerous environments but there's plenty of oil to keep the bastards rich as long as we don't go green.

Look at some of the solutions proposed in this thread:

"I'd pay $100 a gallon if I have to"

"Nuclear!"

"Kill half the world's population!"

What a joke. If people don't know by now that politics is faker than professional wrestling, we're screwed. Peak oil is a fraud too. Rich get richer.

Oh my gawd, you beat me to the punch! I didn't read through before I posted basically the same about peak oil.

Politics = faker than professional wrestling (hate to admit but very profound)

I read about the Swiss banking secrets leaker the other day. He recently dropped more info that world leaders are secreting away their taxable income in blind trusts that disburse w/o a penny in taxes. It's not new news in any sense of the word but this leaker has the names and amounts.

Even the different entities that receive disbursements from tax-have trusts pay ZERO tax.

This Swiss fucker already leaked names of powerful tax dodgers in 2008. Wikileaks didn't reveal the names of the players. Assange (Wikileaks) is a trooper but even he knows when to keep his mouth shut.

 

[mocs0]

I read about the Swiss banking secrets leaker the other day. He recently dropped more info that world leaders are secreting away their taxable income in blind trusts that disburse w/o a penny in taxes. It's not new news in any sense of the word but this leaker has the names and amounts.

Even the different entities that receive disbursements from tax-have trusts pay ZERO tax.

This Swiss fucker already leaked names of powerful tax dodgers in 2008. Wikileaks didn't reveal the names of the players. Assange (Wikileaks) is a trooper but even he knows when to keep his mouth shut.

I hadn't heard about that one, but it sounds about right. It will be interesting to see what percentage of them get away with it.

When they say "smaller government" what they really mean is smaller government prosecuting the filthy rich and bigger gov't prosecuting the rest of us, imo.

You are talking about this dude? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...e-wikileaks-financial-secrets/article1872433/

Why would you announce that you're going to do it before you do it? Don't people get killed for stuff like that? Hopefully he'll live long enough to say what he's gotta say, and then some. Maybe he'd rather die than go to prison.

It's nice to live in the information age though.

 

[Bud Bug]

I spend $600 per month on gas just to and from work. Add another $200-400 for driving around town.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I hadn't heard about that one, but it sounds about right. It will be interesting to see what percentage of them get away with it.

When they say "smaller government" what they really mean is smaller government prosecuting the filthy rich and bigger gov't prosecuting the rest of us, imo.

Hot damn, dude! Fuckin' A.

You are talking about this dude? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...e-wikileaks-financial-secrets/article1872433/

Why would you announce that you're going to do it before you do it? Don't people get killed for stuff like that? Hopefully he'll live long enough to say what he's gotta say, and then some. Maybe he'd rather die than go to prison.

It's nice to live in the information age though.

Yeah, that's him. Rudolph Elmer. I follow your logic. Apparently he'll live long enough to be sued by Julius Baer.

But that's probably bullshit too. Need an alibi, Julius Baer?

"Hell yeah. Why would I murder the dude I spent big bucks to sue?"

Now I'm getting paranoid, lol.

 

[igrowone]

Sounds like an excuse by oil company execs and the politicians in their pockets to me. But I don't know the science, so I could be wrong.

What I do know is these people like to use the hegelian dialectic to create a "problem" and then the solution miraculously benefits them. I assume that's the case here. When they say "it's not cost - effective", all I hear is "our friends in high places will lose money"

Doesn't heat break down cellulose into sugar? Isn't that the process behind sauteeing and roasting onions/peppers?



That could be one of the things he grew it for, the plant seems to have thousands of uses.

If you can make a car run on crude - burning feces and wood, there's gotta be something we can do in 2011 to make them run efficiently on hemp. Anything else would be uncivilized. They can bury their heads in the sand if they want, but I'm not impressed and I'm not fooled.

Look at some of the solutions proposed in this thread:

"I'd pay $100 a gallon if I have to"

"Nuclear!"

"Kill half the world's population!"

What a joke. If people don't know by now that politics is faker than professional wrestling, we're screwed. Peak oil is a fraud too. Rich get richer.

the heat/sautéing might break down starch
but baking sawdust will not result in a sweet product
biomass, whether it be hemp or other crops, does work, but the energy yields are modest
it's tough to argue against conspiracy theories, they're easy to create and tough to refute
but if it was so easy to use biomass, there are plenty of poor countries who would be all over it

 

[SpasticGramps]

In your opinion how long will this last and what will be the effects in the US when that ceases to be the case?

Not for too much longer IMO.

Hu calls currency system 'product of the past'

China's President Hu Jintao said Sunday the international currency system was "a product of the past," but it would be a long time before the yuan is accepted as an international currency. Hu's comments, which came ahead of a state visit to Washington on Wednesday, reflected the continuing tensions over the dollar's role as the major reserve currency in the aftermath of the US financial crisis in 2008.

"The current international currency system is the product of the past," Hu said in written answers to questions posed by The Wall Street Journal and the Washington Post.
Highlighting the dollar's importance to global trade, Hu implicitly criticized the Federal Reserve's recent decision to pump 600 billion dollars into the US economy, a move criticized as weakening the dollar at the expense of other countries' exports.
"The monetary policy of the United States has a major impact on global liquidity and capital flows and therefore, the liquidity of the US dollar should be kept at a reasonable and stable level," Hu said.

All this printing is increasing oil and food costs around the world. Unrest is growing in third world countries as the FED is in essence taking food off people's table by exporting inflation. The FED is in a real catch 22. If they do not continue to print money the markets will tank because they are the only ones buying equities and bonds. If they don't stop printing money inflation and social unrest will continue to get worse.

Americans, in our seemingly infinite hubris, do not believe that any of this is going to effect us. That is until the illusion of prosperity rolls off the cliff.

 

[mocs0]

the heat/sautéing might break down starch
but baking sawdust will not result in a sweet product
biomass, whether it be hemp or other crops, does work, but the energy yields are modest
it's tough to argue against conspiracy theories, they're easy to create and tough to refute
but if it was so easy to use biomass, there are plenty of poor countries who would be all over it

I don't know how sweet fuel needs to be, but we will never find a solution that we are not looking for, and as long as record profits are being made and the politicians/media/fortune 500 feign incompetence/ignorance and get away with it, we will have a lot of self-fulfilling prophecies. "Oops, I just made myself another billion dollars off the suffering of others. My bad!"

Pyrolysis is a thermochemical decomposition of organic material at elevated temperatures in the absence of oxygen. Pyrolysis typically occurs under pressure and at operating temperatures above 430 °C (800 °F). The word is coined from the Greek-derived elements pyr "fire" and lysis "separating".
Pyrolysis is a special case of thermolysis, and is most commonly used for organic materials, being, therefore, one of the processes involved in charring. The pyrolysis of wood, which starts at 200–300 °C (390–570 °F),[1] occurs for example in fires or when vegetation comes into contact with lava in volcanic eruptions. In general, pyrolysis of organic substances produces gas and liquid products and leaves a solid residue richer in carbon content. Extreme pyrolysis, which leaves mostly carbon as the residue, is called carbonization.
The process is used heavily in the chemical industry, for example, to produce charcoal, activated carbon, methanol, and other chemicals from wood, to convert ethylene dichloride into vinyl chloride to make PVC, to produce coke from coal, to convert biomass into syngas, to turn waste into safely disposable substances, and for transforming medium-weight hydrocarbons from oil into lighter ones like gasoline. These specialized uses of pyrolysis may be called various names, such as dry distillation, destructive distillation, or cracking.

It's easy to call ideas conspiracy theories just like it's easy to call someone a witch because they prefer herbal remedies to expensive, side-effect heavy prescription meds. Just like it's easy to assume that Uncle Spam would continue to give aid to 3rd world countries if they started using alternative fuels.

It's a lot harder to question the insane policies and practices in place because you are quick to be labeled a conspiracy nut and are subject to a symbolic witch burning. It is well documented that politicians have been corrupt since there have been politicians. Fool me twice, shame on me. Evil didn't die with Hitler and Sadaam.

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying I'm not falling for the propaganda. The whole reason I read almost 300 posts in this thread is because I want answers. If you have valid answers, now's the time and the place for them. There are valid reasons for and against nuclear, coal, natural gas, etc. I'm asking for valid reasons against Hemp, and the only ones I see so far are that it gives you the giggles and "we just don't know enough yet". Those are convenient excuses that have kept prohibition going for 70+ years and we need to stop taking the word of rich people with agendas and start calling them on their bulls**t.

If that makes me a conspiracy theorist, so be it. I'd rather be a nut than a sheep who falls for all this brain-washing bulls**t.

Yeah, that's him. Rudolph Elmer. I follow your logic. Apparently he'll live long enough to be sued by Julius Baer.

But that's probably bullshit too. Need an alibi, Julius Baer?

"Hell yeah. Why would I murder the dude I spent big bucks to sue?"

Now I'm getting paranoid, lol.

Gotcha. Thank you for making me feel a little less "crazy" for feeling the way I do, DB. Don't let things make you paranoid. They use fear to control us. Learn to accept the things you can't change, change the things you can, and have the wisdom to know the difference. I hear that's the path to serenity.

Not for too much longer IMO.

Hu calls currency system 'product of the past'


All this printing is increasing oil and food costs around the world. Unrest is growing in third world countries as the FED is in essence taking food off people's table by exporting inflation. The FED is in a real catch 22. If they do not continue to print money the markets will tank because they are the only ones buying equities and bonds. If they don't stop printing money inflation and social unrest will continue to get worse.

Americans, in our seemingly infinite hubris, do not believe that any of this is going to effect us. That is until the illusion of prosperity rolls off the cliff.

Gotcha. Thank you, Gramps. I think we as so-called "free - thinking people" need to cast off a lot of illusions.

 

[igrowone]

I don't know how sweet fuel needs to be, but we will never find a solution that we are not looking for, and as long as record profits are being made and the politicians/media feign incompetence/ignorance and get away with it, we will have a lot of self-fulfilling prophecies.



It's easy to call ideas conspiracy theories just like it's easy to call someone a witch because they prefer herbal remedies to expensive, side-effect heavy prescription meds.

It's a lot harder to question the insane policies and practices in place because you are quick to be labeled a conspiracy nut and are subject to a symbolic witch burning.

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying I'm not falling for the propaganda. The whole reason I read almost 300 posts in this thread is because I want answers. There are valid reasons for and against nuclear, coal, natural gas, etc. I'm asking for valid reasons against Hemp, and the only ones I see so far are that it gives you the giggles and "we just don't know enough yet". Those are convenient excuses that have kept prohibition going for 70+ years and we need to stop taking the word of rich people with agendas and start calling them on their bulls**t.

If that makes me a conspiracy theorist, so be it. I'd rather be a nut than a sheep who falls for all this brain-washing bulls**t.



Gotcha. Thank you for making me feel a little less "crazy" for feeling the way I do, DB. Don't let things make you paranoid. They use fear to control us. Learn to accept the things you can't change, change the things you can, and have the wisdom to know the difference. I hear that's the path to serenity.

not calling you any names, certainly not calling you a conspiracy nut
but it is easy to propose a conspiracy theory, some i have seen are nutty
the fossil fuel industry does have a vested interest in the status quo, no question
hemp does seem to be a good biofuel crop, just that it has baggage for many people
if it is a little better than other crops, that probably won't get it over the top
i'd love for the hemp industry to become legal in the USA, just that it's an uphill fight

 

[SpasticGramps]

It's a lot harder to question the insane policies and practices in place because you are quick to be labeled a conspiracy nut and are subject to a symbolic witch burning. It is well documented that politicians have been corrupt since there have been politicians. Fool me twice, shame on me. Evil didn't die with Hitler and Sadaam.

This is so true and you see it more and more these days. If you question the establishments dogma you are labeled a nut job. That's not to say some stuff floating around isn't outlandish, but not questioning authority is detrimental to free thought and freedom in general.

Since '08 I and many others have been saying that the FED is manipulating the equities market and monetizing our debt. The people that went on CNBC and said the same were labeled "crazy conspiracy theorists" by the talking propaganda heads. In the past few months the FED is now openly admitting that they control the stock market and are monetizing debt. This is considered common knowledge now. Funny how that happens. A side caveat to that is, rigged markets never end well.

Joseph Goebbels would be proud.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I spend $600 per month on gas just to and from work. Add another $200-400 for driving around town.

Wow, $35 per day, you need to go bobtail.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Shabah, Saudi Arabia - 2008...

This (and more) is why green "isn't practical."

Didn't want this to get deleted so add www. and paste in your browser.

cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4653109n&tag=related;photovideo





If I worked in the oil business, ^^this^^ would give me an erection.

 

[mocs0]

not calling you any names, certainly not calling you a conspiracy nut
but it is easy to propose a conspiracy theory, some i have seen are nutty
the fossil fuel industry does have a vested interest in the status quo, no question
hemp does seem to be a good biofuel crop, just that it has baggage for many people
if it is a little better than other crops, that probably won't get it over the top
i'd love for the hemp industry to become legal in the USA, just that it's an uphill fight

Cool, no hard feelings. You and Gramps are right. Not all conspiracy theories are true. Thank you for your valuable input to this thread.

Naturally Cannabis Ruderalis, Indica, and Sativa has baggage, and all of it is based on well-documented cover-ups, greed, smear campaigns, propaganda, and fear-mongering. Hopefully the Emperor Wears No Clothes documentary film, slated for a 2001 release, will be well-produced, heavily promoted, meticulously fact-checked, highly successful, and eye-opening for a lot of people.

It is a uphill fight, but every day we let the madness continue, it gets harder to fight. People need to know their history because we repeat it every day, and being that history is written by the victors, we may be headed for another dark ages.

This is so true and you see it more and more these days. If you question the establishments dogma you are labeled a nut job. That's not to say some stuff floating around isn't outlandish, but not questioning authority is detrimental to free thought and freedom in general.

Since '08 I and many others have been saying that the FED is manipulating the equities market and monetizing our debt. The people that went on CNBC and said the same were labeled "crazy conspiracy theorists" by the talking propaganda heads. In the past few months the FED is now openly admitting that they control the stock market and are monetizing debt. This is considered common knowledge now. Funny how that happens. A side caveat to that is, rigged markets never end well.

Joseph Goebbels would be proud.

Amen, brother. Here's some of my favorite conspiracy theories in that regard:

What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? -- Thomas Jefferson

The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.

-- Thomas Jefferson

The very word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
John F. Kennedy

Those wackos are pretty entertaining. Maybe it was the hemp Jefferson was growing and the Cannabis JFK used for his back pain that made them so paranoid.

There are questions as to the authenticity of the central bank quote, but whoever said it may have been on to something.

 

[igrowone]

so i had to go look up some biodiesel numbers for some of the common crops
rapeseed is canola oil(for the most part), if we planted the whole of the USA with rapeseed, that would just meet our current oil demand
or so it is claimed
Table 1: Oil producing crops (Adapted from Tickell, 2000)

Plant Latin Name Gal Oil/Acre
Oil Palm Elaeis guineensis 610
Rapeseed Brassica napus 122
Opium Poppy Papaver somniferum 119
Hemp Cannabis sativa 37

 

[SpasticGramps]

If I worked in the oil business, ^^this^^ would give me an erection.

Funny how that video was sponsored by Viagra

Horizontal drilling is the future of extraction for the foreseeable future. Our electronic tool is what allows them to drill so far out and know where they are going. The price has to stay high for this kind of extraction. Our services aren't cheap.

I'm glad I don't have to go out there lol. Words can't express what a bitch it would be to drill in 130F and with nothing but fine sand blowing around you. It gets in everything. West Texas is about as close as we have in the US to over there and it can be miserable sometimes. That's why I'm glad I'm in the office now.

 

[BrainSellz]

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying I'm not falling for the propaganda. The whole reason I read almost 300 posts in this thread is because I want answers. If you have valid answers, now's the time and the place for them. There are valid reasons for and against nuclear, coal, natural gas, etc. I'm asking for valid reasons against Hemp, and the only ones I see so far are that it gives you the giggles and "we just don't know enough yet". Those are convenient excuses that have kept prohibition going for 70+ years and we need to stop taking the word of rich people with agendas and start calling them on their bulls**t.

not pertaining to that^ however it reminded me of a something i had heard about some monkeys....apparently they put several monkeys in a cage that had a tree with bananas at the top of it and when the monkeys would try to go up the tree to get the bananas they would shoot them down with a fire hose (or something of the sort)....once the monkeys stopped going up the tree they replaced one of the monkeys with a monkey that hadnt been hit with water.... when the new monkey got in the cage it would attempt to get the bananas but the other monkeys would stop it....eventually they had replaced all the monkeys with monkeys that had not been hit with water and they were still keeping each other from going up the tree without knowing why....

 

[SpasticGramps]

Those wackos are pretty entertaining. Maybe it was the hemp Jefferson was growing and the Cannabis JFK used for his back pain that made them so paranoid.

There are questions as to the authenticity of the central bank quote, but whoever said it may have been on to something.

Even Woodrow Wilson knew he fucked up by ceding our sovereignty to a quasi-private bank.

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve into existence

He must have been smoking sativa too.

 

[mocs0]

so i had to go look up some biodiesel numbers for some of the common crops
rapeseed is canola oil(for the most part), if we planted the whole of the USA with rapeseed, that would just meet our current oil demand
or so it is claimed
Table 1: Oil producing crops (Adapted from Tickell, 2000)

Plant Latin Name Gal Oil/Acre
Oil Palm Elaeis guineensis 610
Rapeseed Brassica napus 122
Opium Poppy Papaver somniferum 119
Hemp Cannabis sativa 37

Who came up with those numbers?

In most places, hemp can be harvested twice a year and, in warmer areas such as Southern California, Texas, Florida and the like, it could be a year-round crop. Hemp has a short growing season and can be planted after food crops have been harvested.

So numbers per year would be more realistic than numbers per acre.

Each acre of hemp would yield 1,000 gallons of methanol, or 500 gallons of gasoline. Fuels from hemp, along with the recycling of paper, etc., would be enough to run America virtually without oil.

37 gallons or 500 - 100 gallons? I'm guessing somewhere in the middle. Safe estimate? And Cannabis Sativa is not hemp. Cannabis ruderalis is. If they can't get that right, what else are they doing wrong? Probably growing it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassica_napus#Pests_and_diseases

Rapeseed has a lot of pests and diseases to deal with. Not good business.

Shabah, Saudi Arabia - 2008...

This (and more) is why green "isn't practical."

Didn't want this to get deleted so add www. and paste in your browser.

cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4653109n&tag=related;photovideo

If I worked in the oil business, ^^this^^ would give me an erection.

Thanks for the link. I'll watch it when I get a chance and report back.

 

[igrowone]

Who came up with those numbers?



So numbers per year would be more realistic than numbers per acre.



37 gallons or 500 - 100 gallons? I'm guessing somewhere in the middle. Safe estimate? And Cannabis Sativa is not hemp. Cannabis ruderalis is. If they can't get that right, what else are they doing wrong? Probably growing it.

the numbers came from http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/biodiesel_sustainable.html
i've seen similar numbers before on the various crops, this was the 1st for hemp i've seen
gallons per year would probably be better, depends on the location, some parts of the USA can do 2 crops
what species constitutes hemp does get argued a bit
numbers not so much a 'set in stone' value, just a quick post for discussion
but when you look at gallons per acre and total needs, it gives some perspective of the problem

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

All the naysayers telling us green can't be done is an overnight sensation. Capital expenditures are often spread over years or decades. I'll recon we'll always have needs for petroleum transportation in large scale transport of goods, etc. But we could shift toward individual and family transportation over several years and up to 1 decade. The peeps that tell us it won't happen will have to diversify as well.

We landed on the moon with less than a 286 processor and an aluminum foil cabin. We can do most whatever we want when we're all behind it.