small pots and organic ferts
- Thread starter Wav3F0rm
- Start date
In my short experience with small containers, the nutrients in the soil go quickly. This is exacerbated by the fact that watering a small container turns into flushing with a slightly heavy hand. So that further washes through the nutrients in the soil. At that point I find it hard to keep up with all the demands of the plant just by feeding it teas.
I have found that I can stave off having to transplant mother plants by simply top dressing with more soil and they do really well, but for flowering I dunno.
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I have found that I can stave off having to transplant mother plants by simply top dressing with more soil and they do really well, but for flowering I dunno.
Smiley
Z
zen_trikester
If you are going to veg for any period of time it is tough without a transplant, but if you are running cuts and vegging a week or less it is simple. I run pots that are about 5 cups of soil and go strait through harvest with nothing but tap water. I've done this with many different mixes and am currently recycling and re amending my my soil with great success. I am in the process of switching over to even smaller containers (4 cup) and all seems just fine in these as well but I haven't finished one yet. I have pulled as much as 8.3 g from an unvegged clone doing this and I am sure I can do better. Most of my strains currently average in the 4-5 g per plant range and I can fit about 24 plants in a 1.5 sq ft footprint. Could I grow bigger by using chemical ferts? I'm sure I could, but it is nice when you are starting out to let the plant just take what it needs from the soil. I've been growing for almost 2 years now and I still like to keep it simple.
*edit* oops! I was talking about amended organic soil... I've never done teas, though I still think it would be easily doable.
*edit* oops! I was talking about amended organic soil... I've never done teas, though I still think it would be easily doable.
311devon
Member
I run perpetual sog using 20oz soda bottles. Fully organic, modified LC's #1 using coco, not peat moss and lots of ammendments. My girls run out of nutes about 2-3 weeks into flower so i supplement with vermicompost + guano teas at every watering. I find getting enough Mg and K to be the most difficult. Recently added sul-po-mag to the menu to correct this. 2 weeks into flower and things are looking very promising.
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zen_trikester
Kelp Meal and Epsom salts both work fine for me for mg and K. Actually, until I started recycling my soil I never added the kelp at all. I did for a while suspect that I was having an mg def issue and started adding microblast to my water. When it didn't help I figured out I needed some K and added the kelp.
Temps also have a lot to do with the smaller pot deal. I've had good results in smaller pots (2 gallon pots),and not so good....strain depending.
Sorry, definitely forgot to give pot size, but, i'm right around 16-20oz pots. Yes, i know the preferred way is to make a good soil, but, as stated a few times here the soil just gets sucked dry to quickly. Thats why i was planning on using a liquid solution.
311devon basically gave me what i was looking for there. However, the other issue i was understanding was that the small pots have issues supporting all the micro-organisms in the soil. Considering they basically make organic fertilizers work, i can see that being a real issue, however, i don't completely follow that logic(the small pots=poor conditions for the tiny guys)
Yeah, i guess at this point its just trying things out for a run or so. Not having to worry about salt buildup and flushing would be really nice, as well as the PH balancing aspect as well.
Thanks for all the help guys.
(oh yeah, no heavy handed watering, small amounts at a time to make sure all the soil is moistened. Or, when i'm feeling so inclined, make a base measurement dry and wet, and then just add as much needed based on given weight, plant material accounted for)
311devon basically gave me what i was looking for there. However, the other issue i was understanding was that the small pots have issues supporting all the micro-organisms in the soil. Considering they basically make organic fertilizers work, i can see that being a real issue, however, i don't completely follow that logic(the small pots=poor conditions for the tiny guys)
Yeah, i guess at this point its just trying things out for a run or so. Not having to worry about salt buildup and flushing would be really nice, as well as the PH balancing aspect as well.
Thanks for all the help guys.
(oh yeah, no heavy handed watering, small amounts at a time to make sure all the soil is moistened. Or, when i'm feeling so inclined, make a base measurement dry and wet, and then just add as much needed based on given weight, plant material accounted for)
If you think of the soil/plant interface like economics, the idea of economies of scale applies well. Big soil volume is a big plus with organic growing, no doubt about it.
statusquo
Member
Aren't the majority of the nutrients insoluble and "locked" in the soil? If I'm wrong, wouldn't an easy solution be to just top dress so that each time you water even if you "flush" there are replacement ferts?
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zen_trikester
That is a tiny pot. The hardest things in that size of pot are going to be keeping it watered and root space. When I started I was running various sized soda bottles and whatnot but haven't done that in a while. The big thing that made me jump up in size was the daily watering.
Yup, those are some definite advantages to organic and you are right that you will just have to try things out and see. If you haven't built the cabinet yet, try to leave some flexibility for multiple pot sizes so you can experiment and find what works best. I have about 24" from the floor to the bottom of my lights and with 4-5 cup pots @ 8" tall I manage to keep most everything in check as long as I don't veg for more than a week. I would recommend that as a good space height wise.
Good luck!
yeah.. forgot more details. i'm using air pots, DIY, rootbuilder and the UK based ones. Daily waterings are not such a big deal to me, but right now i'm in the planning/theory phase for a new micro system(utilizing larger pots but same small cabinet). Air pots are weird, seems to make the size of the pot larger than it really is, on top of these really wily sativas. Flowering seems to work best at two/three internodes, unless i train a loop in them xD
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zen_trikester
Well that makes a difference I'm sure. I have often thought about trying airpots or smartpots but haven't gotten around to it yet.
GanjaSnake
Member
I used to use 3gal and 5gal pots to flower in myself, and thought I was doing a good job. However, I recently switched over to using 12gal sub-irrigated containers and found my yields have tripled. I no longer even feed during flowering other than a top dressing of Indonesian bat guano watered in with molasses water.
Using standard containers i was always fighting to keep them properly watered, now I just keep the res full and they always look great. SO, I do think there is something to container size, especially while flowering!
Using standard containers i was always fighting to keep them properly watered, now I just keep the res full and they always look great. SO, I do think there is something to container size, especially while flowering!
the more root mass the more bud so bigger is better and you dont have to water as much
as well you can get yellowing of the leaves which is due to stress from the plants been root bound in the container BOG talks about it in his new book he does double potting which has increased his yeilds
as well you can get yellowing of the leaves which is due to stress from the plants been root bound in the container BOG talks about it in his new book he does double potting which has increased his yeilds
I'm fairly new to organic soil but as far as I know,
Nutrients, organic mater, amendments are decomposed by micro organisms, fungi, algae, worms. Which gradually makes insoluble nutrients that aren't available, gradually become soluble/available. So if my fast release source of nitrogen goes relatively fast and the slower release things aren't as readily available, the plant is going to need more nitrogen through, teas, nutes, or addition of nutrient rich compost/organic matter.
Nitrogen -> nitrate etc
Mostly my opinion comes from actually keeping plants in small containers, such as a healthy plant kept small in a beer cup for 8 months takes the addition of addition amendments or teas etc.
I'm still learning
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mostnonymouse
Member
Interesting thread. Logical, but interesting. I just did my first indoor run with 1 gallon smart pots and what I thought was a pretty hot soil that should carry my plants all the way through flower. 2-3 weeks into flowering and they began showing signs of nitrogen and phosphorus deficiencies! (yellowing and purpling) Onward with the guano teas!
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zen_trikester
Nice to see people doing organic micro grows!!! Good for my learning curve!!
PowderJunkie
New member
GamgaSnake, I have been using 3 gal nursery pots and smart pots for several years in my closet with decent results. Please tell us more about your set-up.
