Arizona Congresswoman Shot, 6 dead, 12 wounded

[DiscoBiscuit]

That's my opinion.

And look what it got ya, the door. Say bye bye,


bye bye

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I heard he was a US military recruiter, who rambled on about the CIA MKUltra expiraments. And now they demonize gun owners, liberals, and the schedule 1 substance list because people are looking for something to blame. The guy was a nut, plain and simple, he went off his rocker and killed people. Sure, he was a conspiracy theorest - so what, he was a gun owner too, should we go around and point fingers saying "to hell with this or that", or should we realize that some people go off their rocker?...

I also heard that he was shot by a civilian, who legally owned and carried his firearm.

No, a female civilian picked up a loose clip that fell to the ground. She wasn't armed nor injured, saw her on Olberman last night. A police officer was grazed and helped subdue the gunman. Saw him on Lawrence O'Donnell's Last Word.

And now everybody here wants to say "hang the conspiracy theorists!"

Nope, we're saying get a clue. Just because you have political differences doesn't mean conspiracy theories have a place in logical and reasonable discourse.

Just read the definition of the phrase conspiracy theory:

Conspiracy theory was originally a neutral descriptor for any claim of civil, criminal, or political conspiracy.[1] However, it has become largely pejorative and used almost exclusively to refer to any fringe theory which explains a historical or current event as the result of a secret plot by conspirators of almost superhuman power and cunning.[1]
Conspiracy theories are viewed with skepticism by scholars because they are rarely supported by any conclusive evidence and contrast with institutional analysis, which focuses on people's collective behavior in publicly known institutions, as recorded in scholarly material and mainstream media reports, to explain historical or current events, rather than speculate on the motives and actions of secretive coalitions of individuals.[1] Scholars argue that conspiracy theory goes beyond the boundaries of rational criticism when it becomes nonfalsifiable. Such a theory is a closed system of ideas which explains away contradictory evidence by claiming that the conspirators themselves planted it.[1] The term “conspiracy theory” is therefore often used dismissively in an attempt to characterize a belief as outlandishly false and held by a person judged to be a crank or a group confined to the lunatic fringe.[2] Such characterization is often the subject of dispute due to its possible unfairness and inaccuracy.[2]

Example - Birthers

Hawaii says Obama is a citizen. Bush's State Dept, FBI and Justice Department all vetted Obama's citizenship. Harvard, Columbia, Chicago Law School, Chicago politics.... Who in the flip gives a flop what birthers say? Many make mony selling advertising, lol. Otherwise, its a juvenile attempt to show discontent because the guy inherited a Muslim heritage through his father. A Muslim father who renounced his religion and was atheist before his death. Doesn't sound like an Ayatollah to me.

I was salivating when Bush's military records were suspect. But like me, those in doubt lost the argument. Pick up and move on. Do I believe that Bush earned an honorable-discharge honorably? Not enough to impetuously fan flames after the fire went out.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Well, read the patriot act, and take it to heart. And you say that America is unchanged, well people still have freedom of speech. Nobody's advocating slaughter or descrimination, people are just being alarmist. So what, if you want to point fingers and say "he went off his nut because of this", then you might as well watch reefer madness and believe it. I had thought that the idea was not to be sucked in by alarmism. If you want to be above that, then be above it, there's no need to trash talk or call names.

I agree with moondawg to a certain extent. But nobody's yelling "fire!" in a crouded theater. The deranged are deranged, and they will find reasons to do things if you don't give them one.

Assassination isn't defined as a reason for no reason. It's a political reason. Sorry to state but the assassin called his deed an assassination. Then the assassin said he'd assassinate himself. Looks pretty political to me, considering a federal judge was assassinated and a federal rep received an assassination attempt.

Nobody ever said Kennedy's death was a thing looking for a place to happen. Nor Robert Kennedy. Nor Martin Luther King Jr.

Reagan's attempted killer wasn't any more politically motivated than a Hollywood movie. John Hinkley didn't say he attempted murder for political gain. He had a crush on Jodie Foster and wanted to reach out and say "chellooooo" to Jodie.

You see, Jodie Foster was the supporting actress in "Taxi Driver" where the lead actor, Robert DeNiro plans a political assassination, (no spoilers here, folks.) That's about as political as it got for Reagan. Even if successful in killing Reagan, I doubt Hinkley would have fit the textbook definition of a assassin. Unless conservatives tried to make the Hollywood actor connection... uh, just kidding.

In the end this all boils down to paranoia. The shooter was paranoid. People here are paranoid of alarmists. The people of america are going to be paranoid of the things they heard in the news, this being guns, drugs and people who excersize freedom of speech in a strange way. Maybe we should all start to divide, and be suspicious of and derogatory to everybody. Or, we can look at the bigger picture.

Was the nutbag that shot the abortion doctor paranoid? Paranoia disorder is diagnosed by a qualified doctor. Anything else is speculation.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

motherfucker looks like remy off of higher learning

hideous

It also looks like Dick Richie from "True Romance". Hideous name.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I used to live right around the area she was shot. Lived in Tucson and Phoenix 2 years each. When I was in Tucson in the early 90's got a taste of the hard core gun scene there. Lots of gun shows. Arizona in general was very conservative so a bit surprised upon reading she was a Democrat.

Surprise? You've got the state with the most relaxed gun laws in the country. If you don't surface on the instant, national criminal database you can buy anything in the state of Arizona and carry it around in public without a carry permit. Can't get the good stuff at the gun shop? Go to one of any of the thousands of AZ gun shows annually. Less chance of being caught buying the heavy stuff one doesn't typically see at gun shops.

Who advocates gun control - liberals

Who adamantly resists gun control - NRA/conservatives.

"Mr. Gore, "I'll give you my gun when you take it from my cold, dead hands!"

With those words come standing ovation from the very folks that cringe when nutbags emanate from uncomfortable association.

Who carried a gun into a Democratic session, previously declaring assassination? With a hand gun with 31 bullets per clip. With three clips to boot. We had a law restricting clips as large as this nutbag carried, restrictions that were allowed to expire in the '04 congress.

Doesn't sound surprising at all. Unfortunately it sounds like the rhetoric of "lock and load" (Michelle Bachmann) "Don't retreat, reload" (Sarah Palin) "Don't Tread On Me" (flown by conservative lawmakers from the balcony overlooking a Washington Tea Party rally.)

We can't settle this stuff by claiming it has no consistency. Rush Limbaugh suggested this kind of thing would have to happen every day in order to acknowledge.

You can't take heads and say it has to be tails before we'll pay attention. Knowing what we're dealing with is necessary for understanding and how to thwart the next similar event, not to be divisive.

Anybody can see the parallels between the NRA and GOP. Conservative lawmakers and celebrities make references to guns (Sharon Angle's "second amendment remedies") and the NRA won't even allow controls for armor-piercing bullets. We wouldn't want liberals to outfit Caribou with slug vests to make Sarah's look bad, now would we.

AZ is arguably the most anti-fed state when it comes to gun control, perceived socialism and border control issues. Two aspects that Democrats typically advocate and one that arguably polarizes more than any other issue. We know we need to control the border but the US Chamber of Commerce lobbies for business owners to exploit immigrant labor law. The workers are caught in a political catch 22. Even Bush tried to match logic with reasoning and was sounding rebuffed.

You can't have business owners exploiting cheap labor and blame Mexican workers and the lawmakers that try to reasonably approach a solution. Having you cake and eating it too won't ever solve the border crisis. It's a non-starter, DOA.

So why would it be surprising when a Democratic rep had an assassination attempt on her life while in Arizona by an AZ resident who declared the act as assassination?

Pardon me, but it sounds like you're suggesting the congressional rep was shot down by one of her own. She was shot by a politically motivated constituent. Doesn't necessarily make the nutbag a conservative. But none of the nutbag's statements and actions appear to indicate an attack by the left on itself.

I'd regularly see peeps with handguns on their hip walking around town. Go to the local firing range and rent an automatic to play with if you could afford all the ammo they eat up...lol.

Terrible thing that happened. The shooter was nuts.

I agree.

 

[Baba Ku]

This catastrophe has shown us just who is who and what is what.
The backlash that the political and media dirtbags, who used this event to spread more hate and divisiveness, will be heavy and widespread. Simple fucks tried to use this to their political advantage before the bodies were cold.
They simply are not smart enough to realize just how fucked they are. But, I for one am sort of glad that they played the hand they did, because folks will now see just how low they really are.

I feel sorry for the folks of that county...is that sheriff a good example of the higher officials in that place? If so, you folks are fucked. What a hack ideologue that guy is.
And about as smart as a thumb tack.

And how many read the NYT or watch ABC News? Show of hands how many people think Paul Krugman makes good points? I feel so sorry for you. I don't feel sorry for that guy though...he is a fucking supposed scholar with economic awards and a degree from Princeton...yet he has the mind of a 2 year old jackass. Prime example of the divisiveness we are faced with everyday by people that are supposed to be credible.

And how could the good people of Ill not continue to support Dick Durbin? I mean, hey...this guy is one fantastic person who brings it all into perspective for us. A fucking genius who can tell us all just who to point the fingers at. Great minds like his need to be leading our people...yeah...he is a great leader and has a great head on his shoulders.

What a sad state of affairs...and what a sad bunch of fucks. Simply amazing.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Simply amazing.

That word.... I do not think it means what you think it means

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

This catastrophe has shown us just who is who and what is what.
The backlash that the political and media dirtbags, who used this event to spread more hate and divisiveness, will be heavy and widespread. Simple fucks tried to use this to their political advantage before the bodies were cold.
They simply are not smart enough to realize just how fucked they are.

What an astute take and descriptors. I'd say you sound politically correct w/o sounding politically correct. Bravo, you achieve both yet neither.

Sorry bro... what about the f@cked victims, their families and friends and their constituents? Do you have to put the event out of your head to mock the circus? Sure there's rhetoric than can be toned down. Right now, Morning Joe is saying the president will be inclusive, not the opposite. We have to rise above divisive rhetoric but we can't ignore reality or we'll see it repeat.

Here's an example of media flaming the issue, an elected official recognizes the assassination coincides with inflamed, violent political rhetoric.

Megan Kelly of FOX NEWS asked the county sheriff if his political affiliation means he should keep his mouth shut. She's talking to arguably the most prepared, elected official to make a statement about the horror and the national mood affecting his state. The sheriff said it was a question the viewers would have to decide.

See, the sheriff deferred to the FOX viewers because it's not his place to politically opine in an official capacity during public statement. But nice try, Megan. Even Megan said the answer was fair.

I can't believe I'm referencing MK but it's a good example.

On Olberman's show, the sheriff said there's a legal obligation to determine whether motive was inflamed by rhetoric and or divisiveness. The devil in the details could lead to specific motive.

The sheriff never mentioned conservative or republican. It's the fact that consistency is pointed out and a nutbag shares aspects of consistency. It's not an argument that all nuts come from the same tree. It's an argument that inflamed rhetoric is prevalent and incites nutbags to the task of:

Lock and load - CHECK

Don't retreat, reload - CHECK... uh, dropped my second clip and the third spring jammed, damnit!

Don't tread on me - CHECK, until his warped head was tread on

Voter's Second Amendment remedies - CHECKITY CHECK CHECK - one judge down, one rep, maybe

You can excite the electorate with this kind of rhetoric. But this kind of stuff has fallout. Fallout the active players run from but carry with gun sights and lawmakers egging party rallies from balconies.

But, I for one am sort of glad that they played the hand they did, because folks will now see just how low they really are.

What's low about wanting to understand and recognize familiar and recent rhetoric, the fact that the assassin had previously made personal contact and also made personal, inflammatory statements (now on public record) only to finally commit the dirty deed?

To be fair, the gunman appears to share a dislike of aspects of politics, lawmakers and the federal government. The actual details will hopefully arise in the investigation. Nobody is saying "pin this on anybody or everybody that recoil at the thought of gun violence in political discourse."

I feel sorry for the folks of that county...is that sheriff a good example of the higher officials in that place? If so, you folks are fucked. What a hack ideologue that guy is.
And about as smart as a thumb tack.

Right now, you have a "D" to say he's an idealogue Do you know what an idealogue is?

often disapproving : someone who very strongly supports and is guided by the ideology of a particular group

How about a quote from the sheriff that demonstrates what an ideologue he is? He's a law enforcement officer, not a lawmaker, not an editorialist nor a purveyor of political rhetoric. He registers his party affiliation because he's elected, not appointed. But this means the sheriff has to represent the residents of and visitors to his county, regardless of party politics.

This is one of the reasons that Ailes told FOX to take it easy and maybe we all will. This sheriff is as diplomatic as any you'll find, given the circumstances. Barring gaffs from his department, this guy won't add a drip of political sleaze in the equation. If you're looking for sleaze, why can't you make a connection with rhetoric and the inevitable?

And how many read the NYT or watch ABC News? Show of hands how many people think Paul Krugman makes good points? I feel so sorry for you. I don't feel sorry for that guy though...he is a fucking supposed scholar with economic awards and a degree from Princeton...yet he has the mind of a 2 year old jackass. Prime example of the divisiveness we are faced with everyday by people that are supposed to be credible.

Well thanks for referencing your opinion. I guess we're supposed to see what you see, hear what you hear... and you think we'll agree
with __________? Care to fill in the blank(s)?

You'll have a hard time saying ABC is ideologically aligned with your bogeyman. ABC is owned by Disney and labeling ABC as left leaning ideologists is like saying Pat Robertson is liberal.

As for Krugman, could your analogy be astute as a two year old?

And how could the good people of Ill not continue to support Dick Durbin? I mean, hey...this guy is one fantastic person who brings it all into perspective for us. A fucking genius who can tell us all just who to point the fingers at. Great minds like his need to be leading our people...yeah...he is a great leader and has a great head on his shoulders.

Care to share anything more than your words? What about the statements you disagree? Or do you just care to vent with like minds without substantiation?

We can all obfuscate. But you're two steps short of even that. First you have to site in order to spin. You have neither.

What a sad state of affairs...and what a sad bunch of fucks. Simply amazing.

A sad addition to the debate unless you show and tell. Reference a statement or something. Otherwise you look like you are disassociating and projecting. Classic.

 

[sac beh]

The sheriff never mentioned conservative or republican. It's the fact that consistency is pointed out and a nutbag shares aspects of consistency. It's not an argument that all nuts come from the same tree. It's an argument that inflamed rhetoric is prevalent and incites nutbags to the task of:

Lock and load

Don't retreat, reload

Don't tread on me

Voter's Second Amendment remedies

You can excite the electorate with this kind of rhetoric. But this kind of stuff has fallout. Fallout the active players run from but carry with gun sights and lawmakers egging party rallies from balconies.

Well said.

The most politically divisive players in all this are those that accuse the sheriff of speaking out of line. In the wake of a terrible act of violence in his county, he makes a very reasonable statement about how the divisive politics and rhetoric can lead to an environment of hate and violence. Very reasonable, moderate statement in my mind.

For the politicians who encourage hate and violence through their language, it may be all about creating a voter base. But for the folks listening, especially the mentally unstable among them, it can become an all-too-real call to arms. Individuals are responsible for their actions, always. Politicians are responsible for the tone they set and the problems and solutions they advocate in public discourse.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I agree, sac, thanks for pointing out the sheriff is moderate. He's moral and ethical too. For all we know he could very well be a pinko, commi-flag, socialist masquerading as a moderate.

Sorry, moderate is the job description. The guy was elected and apparently he didn't have to seek legislative approval of any kind. As long as he walks the walk of sheriff in his county, who cares if it's right or left.

Just like the conservative US Attorneys that lost their jobs for political reason. Politics doesn't play a role in all appointments and elective office. Some are a-political, meaning their above or indifferent to party in their professional role. Doesn't matter what their political persuasion is, so long as they don't overstep the bounds of their respective position.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

...and what a sad bunch of fucks.

who'sthatdaddy?

 

[Baba Ku]

That word.... I do not think it means what you think it means

Did you have anything of substance to offer? What the fuck is your statement supposed to mean? Maybe you could explain your little drive-by? Just what is it I think?

 

[Guest 168361]

yea fucked up....think he just watched 1 too many conspiracy movies(zeitgeist).....dude is fucked in the head

 

[Baba Ku]

Disco, if you think that sheriff is moral and ethical by the statements he made after this event, then you are the sort of person I want absolutely nothing to do with.

Not only were his statements clearly political banter, his words gave lots of ammo to the freak that did the shooting. Almost as if the asshole knew he would be giving him some defense with his statements. I mean, he has to know how stupid he was as a top law official that would be directly involved with the case to say the things he said.
He gave it out without one care about hurting the states case and giving the freak a defense, and all he cared about was throwing his obviously misguided, as well as proven flat out wrong opinion, in lieu of conducting himself like such people should.

That is the problem with the political hacks of his stripe, they are flat out fucked up in the head to a point of acting ignorant. I for one am sick of these types of phony, ignorant fucks.

Oh wait..he's moderate!! lol.... moderate, what the fuck does that mean? LOL moderate.
Moderates do not place themselves in the middle of such shit.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Peeps don't typically say Three mile Island was amazing, lol. Or Jeffry Dahmer, Branch Dividian tragedy, yada yada.

The ball game, now that was amazing. The art was amazing at the museum.

Now -

What a sad state of affairs...and what a sad bunch of fucks. Simply amazing.

You might be grammatically correct and a social goon at the same time. Just kidding...




















































not really kidding.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Disco, if you think that sheriff is moral and ethical by the statements he made after this event, then you are the sort of person I want absolutely nothing to do with.

That's like being told I won't have glass shards thrown at me. I wouldn't blame you for not socializing because you and reasoning aren't on the same planet.

Not only were his statements clearly political banter, his words gave lots of ammo to the freak that did the shooting. I mean, he has to know how stupid he was as a top law official that would be directly involved with the case to say the things he said.

"Almost as if..." Now you're getting somewhere.


It's a little different than

not I'm not...

yes I am... WHATEVER.

Imagine that, Megan Kelly even tried to set the guy up, he gave her a fatherly look and declined to answer. You can't reference anything because there isn't anything. You just can't stand the truth when it doesn't back your primal gut.

Almost as if the asshole knew he would be giving him some defense with his statements.

what's this he/him shit, lol. I don't give myself anything if it's already mine.

I mean, he has to know how stupid he was as a top law official that would be directly involved with the case to say the things he said.

Oh. Well, since you put it that way....

Did you hear what he said?

No, what did he say?

Nevermind but he said it.

He gave it out without one care about hurting the states case and giving the freak a defense, and all he cared about was throwing his obviously misguided, as well as proven flat out wrong opinion, in lieu of conducting himself like such people should.

Ok, in that one paragraph above, you've made no less than 4 declarations. You can't manage anything beyond openers.

That is the problem with the political hacks of his stripe, they are flat out fucked up in the head to a point of acting ignorant. I for one am sick of these types of phony, ignorant fucks.

hoodie doodie, kind of like Howdy Doody. You know, the wooden head, sits on a lap, does what Buffalo Bob makes him say and do.

Who's your Buffalo Bob?

Oh wait..he's moderate!! lol.... moderate, what the fuck does that mean? LOL moderate.
Moderates do not place themselves in the middle of such shit.

It's not surprising that if you can't cite, you can't read. Logic and reasoning aren't qualities you ascribe or aspire to.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

It's hoodiedoodie time...

Hello, Buffalo Bob, hello kids.

 

[Baba Ku]

It is simply amazing that we can have so many supposedly intelligent people can be such a sad collective bunch of fucks.

It is also simply amazing that these sad fucks use such a tragic event to push forward their phony divide and conquer strategies, and try to demonize people with absolutely nothing to back up their assertions.

Despicable, is the best term to describe the display by the media and the left wing hacks.
Fucking despicable. It is going to cost them big too. See, only about 30% of our nation is loony enough to go along with the sort of shit these hacks are slinging.

The real problem is that these hacks see their pretty little world collapsing around them, and they are fucking furious. So furious that they will say anything, do anything, and blame anything on anyone that is not in line with their way of thinking. Desperation tactics.

And I find it real funny how when the muslim freak shot up the army base, there was a call from these same people to not rush to judgement..let's not get all in a tizzy over the thing, even when we knew this guy was red flagged and was in contact with a known islamic terrorist and his network...no, let's not rush to judgement on that one.
But on THIS one...it looked real clear to these hacks that there was an easy way to use this catastrophe for their political betterment. So, let's rush to judgement on this one..before the bodies are cold.

Sad bunch of fucks.
And is it simply amazing that such a fine nation has so many sad fucks.

But hell...I dunno...maybe it does insight violent behavior in people when folks say things like;
"If they bring knives, we will bring guns"! -B. H. Obama
(want more? there's plenty where that came from...nice little target adds too)
Where was the fucking outrage over that statement? It was nowhere, and if these hacks were to be pressed about such statements, they would justify it somehow. That is how these sad bastards operate.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

From the halls of hoodiedoodie...

From the halls of hoodiedoodie...

It is simply amazing that we can have so many supposedly intelligent people can be such a sad collective bunch of fucks.

It is also simply amazing that these sad fucks use such a tragic event to push forward their phony divide and conquer strategies, and try to demonize people with absolutely nothing to back up their assertions.

Yeah, that's hoosier. Professional projection machine. Where's gratefulh3ad? He's like holy water on this shit, lol.

hoodiedoodie's sad and amazing at the same time. One just has to wait for the flip.

Despicable, is the best term to describe the display by the media and the left wing hacks.
Fucking despicable.

I thought it was amazing. So now they can't jam, right?

It is going to cost them big too. See, only about 30% of our nation is loony enough to go along with the sort of shit these hacks are slinging.

Hey, that's 10 percent more than your side.

When ya gonna start the tic toc sh!t?

The real problem is that these hacks see their pretty little world collapsing around them, and they are fucking furious.

I'd say it like this, hoosier. We're mourning a national level assassination that killed a federal judge and what 6 others? A federal representative is in critical condition. Even a little 9 year old girl was murdered. We're furious with the assassin and the inflamed rhetoric that enrages these nutbags!

So furious that they will say anything, do anything, and blame anything on anyone that is not in line with their way of thinking. Desperation tactics. And I find it real funny how when the muslim freak shot up the army base, there was a call from these same people to not rush to judgement..let's not get all in a tizzy over the thing, even when we knew this guy was red flagged and was in contact with a known islamic terrorist and his network...no, let's not rush to judgement on that one.
But on THIS one...it looked real clear to these hacks that there was an easy way to use this catastrophe for their political betterment.

You're struggling, just breath... in and out.

So, let's rush to judgement on this one..before the bodies are cold.

I'd say we'll investigate and you're pissed that another assault weapon nutbag exploded.

I tell ya what, lets get that Muslim ex-serviceman and team him up with inflamed political rhetoric. I'd say that would give him some juju for his mojo. But that's right, the mutha's in prison.

Sad bunch of fucks.
And is it simply amazing that such a fine nation has so many sad fucks.

It's like grandmother in the corner and nobody gives a sh!t about her dementia.

But hell...I dunno...maybe it does insight violent behavior in people when folks say things like;
"If they bring knives, we will bring guns"! -B. H. Obama
Were was the fucking outrage over that statement? It was nowhere, and if these hacks were to be pressed about such statements, they would justify it somehow. That is how these sad bastards operate.

Hot damn, bring ibj back, lol.
At least he attempted to debate.

49 posts and we finally get something to feed on....

You're right, Obama shouldn't have said anything that resembles nutbags. He gets lambasted for the gun control he never passed and comments like this don't help anybody.

hoosier, so many subjects, you're a mass debater.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Anybody notice the striking similarities?