A is 4 PiMp's n00b cabinet grow

[DiscoBiscuit]

Getting better I see. Seedlings will stretch if they're not as close to the light as possible. The stems are weak at this point and you risk them falling over if they stretch too much. With your bulbs, you should try to get within an inch or two, or as close as possible. Closer light, more photosynthesis (and canopy penetration.)

Example - a 4" differential between bulb and canopy gets ~25% the light of a 2" differential. It's called the inverse square law of lighting. You won't see the difference with your eyes but the plants will rock much better with the closest light possible.

You'll need to get every bit of energy from those two bulbs as possible. If plants suffer from heat stress, you'll have to back off a bit.

If you can get your hands on a 12v pc fan and a 12v AC\DC transformer, you can fan the bulb area and mix the air temp before it's exhausted. Temps are much lower close to and at the cab floor. Mixing this air will lower the upper cab temp. This will allow you to close the distance between bulb and canopy, lessening stretch. As plants stems grow stronger, you can direct air flow between the bulbs and canopy, or keep it directly on the bulbs. Which ever gives you best temps.

A mature canopy will actually lower your temps. I've got 80*f with no plants in the cab. A full canopy can drop temp as much as 8 or 10 degrees, depending on ambient temps. Really helps a lot.

Match dc voltage of fan and t-former. Utilize no more than 80% of the t-former milli-amp rating.

Example - I run two 120 ma fans on a single 700 mA t-former. You may have a spare 12v t-former laying around from an old dc toy or electronic device.

 

[A is 4 PiMp]

Dude the entire thread you've been dropping knowledge with every post you make! Thanks for helping me out with this im serious!

I was actually thinking about rigging up some fans to cool the bulbs right after putting in the new intake, the exhaust fans are running off of some 12v adapter that I found laying around in my room.

the intake fan was on a 4.5v adapter (i took it out after making the new intake and scored another 2.5'' fan), i'm thinking i could just use the 4.5v adapter and 2 fans to cool the bulbs?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

You're welcome, A is 4 PiMp. Glad to help. I just noticed you had different voltages. You want to be careful if you mix voltages between fan and adapter.

Here's where it gets hairy. Sorry if I reiterate, just want to make sure you don't have any problems.

I think you can use a 4.5v adapter on a 12v fan, the fan will just run slower. Please make sure your mA draw is 80% or less.

You don't want to run a 4.5 volt fan on a 12v adapter. Even if it worked, the extra voltage wouldn't be good for the fan electronics (if any) or the fan bearing.

 

[A is 4 PiMp]

A tiny little update today, another seed FINALLY decided to make something happen and break through the surface after 6 days of 18/6! So I figured id take a pic

Looks like its up to #6 now, I wish I could just grab the container and be like "WAKE UP, EVERYBODY IS WAITING ON YOU!" lol

The temps have been in low -mid 70's today (it got colder here recently and the window is open for some of the day too, with the blinds closed)

The 1st to sprout (ill call name #1) finally stopped stretching I noticed and the others kinda came to a halt at the same height after I added some cd and game cases underneath for a stand.


When should I start feeding nutes? I know they are all still VERY young I was just asking.


I was thinking about transplanting the older ones this weekend into 20oz cups with the same fox farm planting mix with some perlite

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

A general rule of thumb is after 2 weeks. It specifically depends on the cotyledons and how much nutrients are absorbed when seeds develop.

Lots of growers allow seeds to mature for 5 or 6 weeks on 8 to 10 week strains. IMO, the 5 week seed will need ferts sooner than more mature seeds. Of course, this generalization is strain dependent.

Keep an eye on cotyledons after the first week. If the green color starts to fade, start feeding at 1/4 strength. Your worst case scenario is feeding too late, the lowest set of true leaves will be cannibalized for upper growth.

After 2 weeks you can generally feed 1/4 strength w/o burn, even if cotyledons are still nice and green. You can also wait for signs of need but be on your toes, you'll run out of gas sooner than later.

Look for nute burn and adjust accordingly. The amount of nutes progresses depending on strain. If you have heavy feed strains, you may get away with full strength nutes by week 4 or 5 of veg. If you flower with minimal veg (~2 weeks), you'll move to full strength faster than otherwise. This is because plant growth accelerates (stretch) in flower and nutrient needs are higher. You might see full strength feedings in veg if and when you get a bigger cab and veg longer.

Chemical nutes will leave deposits as your soil mix dries off. Roots can't absorb dried deposits. Subsequent feeding will see nute buildup. Subsequent feedings can and will cause nute burn. If buildup persists, your pH will sink until the roots can't absorb the available nutes. This is called lockout.

Some growers alternate feedings with plain water. Allowing ~10 to 15% runoff will reduce buildup, prevent burns and lockout. You have to have holes in your pots to get runoff.

Some growers know their strains and prefer nutes with every water until harvest flush. Allowing ~15% feed water runoff will prevent buildup as well as plain water (buildup washes out with each feeding.)

Depending on the size of your op, 15% feed runoff could be pricey. I'd say (you) and I could feed with each water and allow necessary runoff w/o breaking the bank.

Keep in mind, some strains are light feeders and alternate water/feed is necessary. It's all in the visual symptoms. The plant will tell you what it needs. It just takes us a grow or three to translate what our plants tell us.

When you get more familiar with indoor growing and especially familiar with a particular strain, you'll know the needs w/o having to read visual symptoms. Sooner or later, you're growing wire-to-wire w/o a single def. Then an unusual strain pops up and gives problems. You'll master these too when you discover what they want. You'll learn to satisfy even the pickiest strains.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

One of the most common troubles with indoor growing is watering too soon. Mj likes a transition from wet to near dry as opposed to constant moisture. Prolonged saturation of soil mix can reduce N absorption and retard growth. Continued saturation can even kill plants or render them unsuitable to ferk with.

Another thing, your roots have to absorb oxygen in the mix. Prolonged moisture can stifle oxygen absorption.

If and when you grow in the ground outdoors, moisture to near dry transition isn't as critical. This is because the upper soil in the ground is typically dry enough for oxygen absorption. If ground soil isn't clay, you can throw almost all the water you want. Excess moisture will dissipate in the ground rather than damage plants.

Become familiar with the weight difference between wet and near dry soil mix. Pick up the pot, analyze the moisture content. If it feels heavier than your accustomed to watering, check it the next day.

Plant(s) with too frequent watering start to look like an open umbrella. Too dry and plants wilt, often looking like a near-closed umbrella.

 

[A is 4 PiMp]

Dayum even more stuff I didn't know lol thanks for answering my questions ONCE AGAIN

I was actually thinking about flowering around the 2 week mark (when the last seed that sprouted reaches 2 weeks) or could I get away with 1 week like I see in some of the grows on this site?

I was also planning on watering with nutes every other watering as well


#1 (the biggest one) has a little tiny shade of white coming through on one of the cotyledon leaves

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

You're welcome. Using the search feature gives you more than one opinion. I'm a hacker compared to the many experts here. Some of our best growers post infrequently. Some have little IC "rep" but their experience precedes them.

It would be nice to have rep that denotes novice, intermediate and advanced experience. My rep would be considerably lower, lol.

Anything under the sun you need as a grower is here. Often you'll have difficulty finding pertinent info because of the sheer volume of data and pictures. When searching, try "by title" first. The thread titles often indicate whether it's worth digging into the thread. IMO, scrolling tread titles takes less time.

Often we won't find our key word listed in a thread title. You can search text. You'll get many more hits, many more misses too. Each thread can be searched for your key word, it makes finding what you need easier.

Text strings are better than keyword searches because you can phrase or bunch several words together. Example, "DWC pH swing". IC doesn't have test string capability but google does. Enter a string in google and add: one space bar +IC. Top search returns will be IC or like growing sites. You get the benefit of the string which narrows the haystack of returns.



When to flower...

It's all in the roots. Bigger roots = bigger buds. This also means bigger plants and you may have to train them. In some strains, roots will proliferate in stretch enough to fill the pot. Other strains need more veg.

Indicas and indica dominant hybrids tend to produce with minimal veg. Some sativas grow to monster size and minimal veg is mandatory. Some sativas don't grow like they're on steroids and require more veg in order to make it worth the trouble.

When to feed....

Are you in or around two weeks? Keep an eye on the cotyledons and see if the white spot becomes fade from green to yellow. (it might look white instead of yellow). Usually, we're talking day(s), not hours so relax. I don't want to stress the "moment" as much as one to several days of not checking.

 

[A is 4 PiMp]

The oldest one is 6 days old

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I'd say the white spot is less significant at one week as opposed to two. It's sort of a guessing game at this point. I'd say it's a little young to feed just yet. Look for that spot to grow as the cotyledons deplete. If the white spot doesn't grow, it may be an anomaly. White can indicate light bleaching but I wouldn't worry too much about that until you grow with HID. A 26 or 42 watt CFL has the capability to bleach young growth but it requires very close proximity. Usually requires new to relatively new bulbs. Once low watt CFLs are 8 to 10 months old, light bleaching might only affect light sensitive strains.

Your oldest seedlings might survive 1/4 strength at this point. Then again, they may be light feeders as seedlings or even wire to wire.

It will eventually boil down to trial, error and or success. I imagine even our more experienced growers find the strain that defies convention.

It's all about nute strength (EC, TDS/ppm or nute mixing instructions) and pH. Nute strength and pH. Getting these two dialed in means the plants take care of themselves. All you have to monitor is moisture content and water accordingly.

 

[A is 4 PiMp]

Usually requires new to relatively new bulbs.

Got it, the lights have never been used before, they are straight out of the box into the cab

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I'd say you'd have to be within an inch of the bulb to get bleaching, barring a hot spot from a reflector. Not as likely as with HID.

Change those lights periodically. You can use old CFLs in reading lamps etc. I';d change after every two, maybe three grows.

 

[A is 4 PiMp]

Noted.

How long should I give the last container to sprout? I don't want to trash it then it suddenly decides to sprout sitting out in the trash can the morning of trash pick up

Its been a whole week of 18/6 and still nothing, I don't want to prolong everybody elses veg period waiting on this little guy to pop (if its even alive still, remember these seeds are really old, kept in a baggy at the bottom of my closet for years)

But basically I was going to wait until this thursday night before I finally throw it out, good idea or no?

 

[kayaN0W]

deez boyz iz hookin u up man haha

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

It's hard to say, A. You just have to make that call depending on your needs and circumstances. 5 of 6 ain't bad at all.

 

[Sgt.Stedenko]

I'd say based on your last pics, you need to give em at least 2 weeks, maybe 3 before flipping the lights.
You look like you have enough height, especially if you do some lst.

 

[A is 4 PiMp]

It's hard to say, A. You just have to make that call depending on your needs and circumstances. 5 of 6 ain't bad at all.

Thats what I was saying!

I guess i will give the plants 2 weeks til flower because I was originally thinking about flowering after 1 week but since this is my 1st (serious) attempt at this, I don't want to mess anything up

 

[A is 4 PiMp]

Just another little update today is day 13 of 18/6

I decided to transplant the big 4 into 18oz cups with 1 part perlite for every 3 parts of soil and gave them a VERY SMALL dose of grow big, I watered them using the "submersion technique" that i've been reading so much about, prior to transplanting #3 was looking a little droopy, now she (i hope) perked back up to normal again.

Here's what you would see now if you opened up the cab:

Now here's a problem in the 1st picture you can see a tiny seedling (#5) in the right side. Heres a closeup:

IT IS A WEEK OLD AND HAS BEEN AT THE SAME HEIGHT SINCE IT REACHED THE SURFACE, WTF IS GOING ON?


Oh and don't mind the pc fan wiring off to the left side, I decided to try and add some fans to get some more air circulating around the inside of the cab and blowing across the plants....Turns out that as soon as I added the fans, the temps started rising, all the way to 93 degrees!!

So I decided to unplug them (haven't got around to removing them, kinda lazy right now) and now the temps have been between 74-84 for today.

I've been thinking about flipping the lights this friday and with that I was also thinking about germing another seed or 2 for a 12/12 from seed experiment, comments?

 

[Anti]

Just another little update today is day 13 of 18/6

If I were you I would get something (books, box, cds, 2x4s, etc.) to put under your plants and get them closer to your lights. I do my best to keep the top of my plants within 2 inches of the lights at all times.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Good tip, Anti. I think A had some books and had the plants nice and parked beneath the lamps. Somebody said it was a fire hazard, lol.

Electricity itself is a fire hazard. IMO, proper wiring renders fire accidents to non-starters. But I can only verify what I can see, I make no assurances that A's setup is safe.

Books may contain paper. But closed, stacked books would be laying there after any fire. Exposed covers would be charred and black but you could still read the text. In other words, books beneath proper wiring pose no greater risk than bricks.