BTTF Doc dead Marty missing forever.

[hunt4genetics]

Last night while watching back to the Future, I picked up on something that I have been missing for years.

In the first time line 1985(A)
Doc gets murdered by the terrorist and Marty will be missing for ever.

The next day his family wakes up and sees on the news that there son's friends has been shot to death in a mall parking lot. They then realize that Marty is not home. Marty never gets home.


The Marty that sees Doc get shot and jumps into the Delorean goes from 1986(A) to 1955(B)

While Marty(A)is in 1955(B) he Mets Doc(B).

Doc(B) sends Marty(A) Back to 1985(B)

Marty(A) get's back in time to witness Doc(B) get shot and and Marty(B) jump in the delorean and take off to 1955(C).

If I'm not missing anything

Doc(A) dies in 1985(A) and Marty's parents will mourn the disapperance and assumed death of Marty (A).

And there will be infinate Martys, Docs, terrorist,Biffs etc

So one time line is sad, and in infinate other timelines marty will be a stranger living with a thin mom a succesfull writer of a dad and a weird Mr Belvedere-esqe Biff.

Did i miss Something?

 

[hunt4genetics]

Doc in the first 1985 (1985(A)) has to dies. Doc(A) never met Marty in 1955 so how would he have known to wear a bulletproof vest?

If marty was about 17 in 1985, he would have been born about 1967-8

The Doc of the 50's could never have met marty.

Is there anyway to reconcile this paradox?


P.S.

Yes, I know it's "Just" a movie.

 

[Baba Ku]

The letter Marty wrote to Doc is the key.

 

[hunt4genetics]

The letter Marty wrote to Doc is the key.

The first time Doc experienced 1955, marty was not even born yet.
So that Doc must be dead.

 

[med_breeder]

What got me is that Doc doesn't seem to age over 30 years.
I figured that would be explained in the next movie.

Then again The actor Micheal J. Fox was playing a kid half his age.

 

[Frozenguy]

I dont get what your question is? Where do you think the hole is? Are you talking about holes in time travel theory or holes in BTTF because I think BTTF got it ok.

They did'nt talk about other dimensions/universes, only talked about their own and the dangers of changing events. How did they mess up?

 

[hunt4genetics]

They presented BTTF as one time line.
For example since Marty interfed with his parents meeting, his siblings started to fade.

My point is the moment Marty left 1985, he could never go back. The mere fact that he was in 1955 showed that it couldn't be one time line. Marty wasn't born yet.

So in the World that Mary left, Doc was shot and most likely killed by the Libiyans, and his family will never see him again.
The Doc who marty saves is a different Doc.

If I'm missing something...

 

[krunchbubble]

why am i so confused on this?

 

[hunt4genetics]

Right now as I type this, it is 01/01/11

I am in an empty room typing this alone.

Let's say my son is born on 01/01/12. One year from now.


Fast forward to 01/01/30
For my son's 18th birthday I buy my son 1 free trip to the past.
My son decides to go back to 01/01/11 to see what his dad was doing on New year's day.

So my son goes back in time and knocks at my door.

my son would be in 01/01/11(B)
My son would have to be in an alternative time line, because the first time around
lets call it 01/01/11(A) he wasn't even born yet.

 

[Frozenguy]

They presented BTTF as one time line.
For example since Marty interfed with his parents meeting, his siblings started to fade.

My point is the moment Marty left 1985, he could never go back. The mere fact that he was in 1955 showed that it couldn't be one time line. Marty wasn't born yet.

So in the World that Mary left, Doc was shot and most likely killed by the Libiyans, and his family will never see him again.
The Doc who marty saves is a different Doc.

If I'm missing something...

Why does Marty need to have been born before 1955?

I mean, how do we know how time travel actually works?
I see it as a single plane, Marty went back in time changed some events, and the future events changed as well by the time he got back?

Why can't Marty go back from where he came from? What force is keeping him from dialing in the Delorean and making sure he has enough fuel to fire the flux capacitor?

He saw his old Marty go back in time, thats how we know he was back to the same area..

Except what they didn't address, is that Marty would proabbaly have never met Doc with such a change in his parents attitude about/towards the world. So Marty would come back to the future to find not him or the Doc in the parking lot. Once he got his parents back together in 1955, the way different from history, he should of disappeared and life would continue on in 1985 with Marty being a new Marty, born of confident parents.

 

[humble1]

Your understanding of time travel is severely flawed.
Try it a few times and you'll see what I mean.
Just because he wasn't born yet doesn't mean there is a whole new time line.
His time travel back to before the date of his birth could still be part of the original time line, even if he does interfere with you in some subtle or not-so-subtle way.

 

[Frozenguy]

Right now as I type this, it is 01/01/11

I am in an empty room typing this alone.

Let's say my son is born on 01/01/12. One year from now.


Fast forward to 01/01/30
For my son's 18th birthday I buy my son 1 free trip to the past.
My son decides to go back to 01/01/11 to see what his dad was doing on New year's day.

So my son goes back in time and knocks at my door.

my son would be in 01/01/11(B)
My son would have to be in an alternative time line, because the first time around
lets call it 01/01/11(A) he wasn't even born yet.

Well thats where you get into the wierd things about time travel that we dont know yet.
Would one actually go back in time to the actual events, or go back in time to a blank slate, another of infinite dimensions, or time lines. A dimension that has no relation to the original other than similarity at the start. Who knows? We dont.. Its not something BTTF could address with any degree of accuracy. So they went the easy route and wrote it like time travel was that of a video cassette. Rewind, change some stuff, future gets altered a little, fast forward to slightly altered future. Eh..

 

[hunt4genetics]

You raise a great point Frozenguy on marty's connection to Doc in the new 1985.

Marty encourages his dad to pursue writing science fiction. He visits him at night as "Darth Vader." That could explain why marty knows doc at the end of the movie. The Doc at the end of the movie is Doc(B). So that Doc could have in a way stalked Marty and struck a friendship with him.

In the first time line, I found it odd that a cool kid with a hot girl friend would be hanging out with an eccentric old scientist.

Wow,
More and more questions.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

If you consider astrophysicists' hypotheses of parallel universes, there is more than a single time line.

 

[Frozenguy]

You raise a great point Frozenguy on marty's connection to Doc in the new 1985.

Marty encourages his dad to pursue writing science fiction. He visits him at night as "Darth Vader." That could explain why marty knows doc at the end of the movie. The Doc at the end of the movie is Doc(B). So that Doc could have in a way stalked Marty and struck a friendship with him.

In the first time line, I found it odd that a cool kid with a hot girl friend would be hanging out with an eccentric old scientist.

Wow,
More and more questions.

Lol I just smoked a bowl and I'm getting all lost now thinking of time travel.. I know we will be able to travel to the future, in fact astronaguths on the space station are doing it right now, no joke lol. But it makes me wonder if and how, we could go back in time.. Because I agree with you, it doesn't make sense, but I dont think we know enough to make sense of it.

 

[hunt4genetics]

oK How bout this:

Let's assume one day time travel to the past will be possible.

It's 01/01/11
I set up a tripod in front of the white house and start filming myself

" Dear future, it is 3 pm EST on January 1st 2011, if time travel is possible, please walk up to me and hand me a red rose. I will stand here for an hour filming until 4 pm est."

So I stand there for one hour filming. No one hands me a red rose.


In the year 3000 someone finds this video. They watch the whole thing. They watch the whole hour. They see no one hands me a rose. they decide to take me up on my offer.
They jump in there time machine. They set it for washington D.C. 01/01/11 3pm est.
They grab a rose jump in the time machine ....poof they arrive in DC
They walk up to me and hand me a rose at say 3:05 pm est.

For those that believe in one time line please explain this to me.

Why did no one hand me a rose?
Why did the future person watching the video not see themself on tape handing me a rose?

 

[Frozenguy]

If you consider astrophysicists' hypotheses of parallel universes, there is more than a single time line.

You mean the one where there exists a dimension (if you will) for every decision you could potentially make at every fork in every road you encounter in any and all dimensions from origin and there on out?
Like, from the second I was born, dimensions were being created at every fork in the road where I decided to think something or look somewhere. There is a dimension where I looked left, a dimension where I looked right, a dimension where I closed my eyes, and so forth?

And now as I type this there are dimensions being created to accommodate other possibilities, like me deleting this post before I submit. Or making altercations.. All existing at the same time but in different space?

 

[Frozenguy]

oK How bout this:

Let's assume one day time travel to the past will be possible.

It's 01/01/11
I set up a tripod in front of the white house and start filming myself

" Dear future, it is 3 pm EST on January 1st 2011, if time travel is possible, please walk up to me and hand me a red rose. I will stand here for an hour filming until 4 pm est."

So I stand there for one hour filming. No one hands me a red rose.


In the year 3000 someone finds this video. They watch the whole thing. They watch the whole hour. They see no one hands me a rose. they decide to take me up on my offer.
They jump in there time machine. They set it for washington D.C. 01/01/11 3pm est.
They grab a rose jump in the time machine ....poof they arrive in DC
They walk up to me and hand me a rose at say 3:05 pm est.

For those that believe in one time line please explain this to me.

Why did no one hand me a rose?
Why did the future person watching the video not see themself on tape handing me a rose?

Well I think thats the big question on how time travel would work if it even could, and what that would mean in terms of our universe.

It obviously isn't intuitive at all, if its even possible in the terms we're discussing.

I think you described the paradox quite well, but I dont think anyone can explain it... The only intuitive way I can think of is what, I guess, you were originally getting at, is that there is other dimensions/time lines/universes what have you. But not everything is intuitive either..

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I'm pretty sure that this discussion is fitting a certain stereotype of pot smokers.



By all means keep it up!

It's one of the better Den threads I've seen in some time.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I realize it's just a concept.