RO and cal-mag

[the gnome]

how much calmag and or epsom salts are you RO users adding to your water? I had a bad prob with not adding calmag to my RO a while back so started 1tsp per gallon and they came back around after nearly losing everything.
now I'm seeing the same symptoms on newer plants that were brought in to the garden and I'm still adding calmag @ 1tsp per gal. and i also ad 1 tsp Ep-salts per 5 gal.
also the new plants were in FFOF for about a month so most of the fertz in the soil are spent but Ive been adding liquid fetz.

I'd like to hear from other RO users and what they add and how much to
make up for the cal+mag

 

[SlowCalaToker]

Cal/Mag + MgSO4 might cause a magnesium toxicity. Mg tox does not exhibit visible symptoms but could cause lockouts that are causing other observed deficiencies. Flush, stop adding the MgSO4 to your regimen and see if things get better...

Good luck!

 

[the gnome]

hi slocal,
thats also been on my mind aslo taht i might be giving too much and causing othe probs but the symptoms i'm seeing are the same as when I wasn't adding any cal mag.
I figured i would either double up on everything and see if it helped or go back to only tap water and FF rrow big for a while and see how it goes.
last time it happened by the time I figured out what it was(10-12 days) my plants were toast.
the new growth leaves become whitish-grey and the small new growth leaves begin to curl and twist.

I posted it last month and thought it was a water softener-sodium prob...
heres the thread

 

[SlowCalaToker]

After reading the other thread and looking on the interweby thing, all I can smell here is that you have a lockout going on somewhere, probably multiple lockouts considering that the damage being exhibited is not recognizable compared to pics of known lockout and deficiency pics here and elsewhere.

You said that you have been adding, if I may quote:"liquid fetz". What exactly are you using, what is the recommended dose on the label, how often are you feeding, etc, etc. List that stuff and we can see what else might be going on. You never know, you might be missing something really basic. For example, I was feeding with 3 tablespoons of nute instead of 3 teaspoons... yea, I know... and I was still on here asking what people thought the deficiency I was showing was, LOL!

peace

 

[Midnight Tokar]

Are you checking your PH in and out? I try not to mix things together in my water, instead of using both why not try molasses after checking your PH. BTW molasses will lower the PH of your water.

 

[Hammerhead]

I add very small amounts of cal/mag and not every feeding. If I see a deficiency I use a foliar feed this is the fastest way to recover from any of them.

 

[the gnome]

my original soilmix with in the other thread was per gallon of FF OF was 2tbs lime-blood/bone meals and 3 tbls of kelp. I thought it might have been too hot or way too much kelp imo so everything I kept was repotted in OF with 2 tbs-per gal lime and thats it.
I also suspected a lock(s) out of sometype, very little liquid fertz were given at that time.
someone mention a calcium def with the twisty leaves?

I started with calmag(1 tsp gal) and the original plants that I kept to get needed cuts from are looking much better now,
but the new plants that were added in the garden at that time were barely effected,
till now.
BTW this is about the time the OF gives out on the ferts.

everything is now in OF with 2tbs per gallon of lime, and I'm using all FF nutes,
grow big @ 1-4 tsp per gallon, 1 per gallon every watering and 3tsp every 3rd watering
and bigbloom @ 1 tbl every watering, this is castings and guano.
calmag @ 1 tsp per gallon as per directions per watering(directions say you can use 2tsp in an accelerated formula)
and 1 tsp of epsom salts every other water for 5 gallons of water.
the grow big directions say 1-3 tsp every watering and 4 every other for a heavy feeding.
big bloom, 1 tbs p-gal in veg.

I use a blulab tri meter and my feedings average 750-940 per watering and heavy feeds are 1450ppm every third watering

early this week I gave doubled the cal mag(2tsp gal)
and gave em a good shot of grow big(3tsp gal)
and big bloom to see if it helps, PPM were at 1700ppm.
btw I aireate my water with a stone.
if I don't see improvement by the weekend I'm going to start using tap water and no ferts and flush the pots....
its also time to repot up from their 1 gal pots with fresh soil so hopefully things will get back to normal quickly but I'm still stumped at whats happening, and need to find out what the heck it is.
I also suspect a lockout(s) as slocal said.


midnitetokar
I PH all my water to 6.4-6.8ish with GH PH-up,
I haven't seen whats coming out, with 2 tbls lime per gal of soil I should be fine...I thought?
also I have a very accurate soil ph tester and my soil tested out at 6.8-9ish in the begining and usually drops thru the grow.
I will check the ph in *AND Out* tonite.

hammerhead,
I'm curious exactly how much is a little? do you use RO??
when i started with the cal mag the 1st time this happened it helped get the affected plants loooking much better

my probs seem to have started when i started using strictly RO water after the rains ended in my locale in late oct.

one last thing, I use mosquito dunks in my 32 gallon rubbermaid trash can i keep my h20 supply to combat the sand gnats.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK... i checked and they arent getting any worse it seems, and a few have greened up and look better with the extra nutes.
I did some ph'ing in and out with water and nutes.

water ph @ 6.0 in---- 5.9 coming out.(i ph it @ 6.4-6.8 when feeding)

fertz in @1100ppm in and 1210ppm coming out
RO water @000ppm going in and 570ppm out

putting 1 tsp of cal mag in 000ppm water= 240 ppm in 1 gallon of water
adding epsom at aroun 1/8tsp=270ppm.

MY big Q is who uses RO water and calmag and how much do you use per gal?
and is 240ppm per gal too much

 

[the gnome]

OK... i checked and they arent getting any worse it seems, and a few have greened up and look better with the extra nutes.
I did some ph'ing in and out with water and nutes.

water ph @ 6.0 in---- 5.9 coming out.(i ph it @ 6.4-6.8 when feeding)

fertz in @1100ppm in and 1210ppm coming out
RO water @000ppm going in and 570ppm out

putting 1 tsp of cal mag in 000ppm water= 240 ppm in 1 gallon of water
adding epsom at aroun 1/8tsp=270ppm.

MY big Q is who uses RO water and calmag and how much do you use per gal?
and is 240ppm per gal too much
__________________

 

[Hammerhead]

Yes I use ro/di water. I dont measure I use less then a cap full. 240ppm is nothing. I use 1200 ppm in flower.

Are you just using cal/mag and water? I dont do that

 

[the gnome]

Yes I use ro/di water. I dont measure I use less then a cap full. 240ppm is nothing. I use 1200 ppm in flower.

Are you just using cal/mag and water? I dont do that

with a heavy feeding I get 1000-1400 with nutes and calmag.

as I posted above, in 1 gallon of just plain RO water, 1 tsp
of cal mag gives me 240ppm.
I'm trying to find out if thats too much?or not enough?
I bet the hydro guys can give me an idea how much CM
they're running

here's some pics of what going on

you can see the stem is also grey too and not healthy looking.
new growth is twisty and pale, greyish colored

here is a fan leaf on another plant.
light green on the edge

 

[Hammerhead]

I use ppm/ec for everything mixed up. I use 800ppm most of the time later in flower it gets raised to 1200. When I use cal/mag I follow the directions but I dont use it every feeding. My bottle says 5ml per gal. the acceleration formula 10ml per gal I would never use. If I do use it for every feeding I only use 2ml max per gal mixed with my nutrients and Bat Guano thats high in KP.


I WOULD FLUSH THAT WELL. None of the damaged parts of the plant will recover you will need to check new growth to see if your on track. After you flush let it dry out well it will take allot longer to dry due to the flush. When your ready to start feeding again use half strength and not ever feeding.. Get some High in N nutrients like Revive and use this for a foliar spray.

Here is what I use
MEDIUM=Happy Frog
FOR VEG= Pure Blend Pro Grow + Foliar feedings with Revive
FOR FLOWER= Pure Blend Pro Bloom + ca/mag 2ml + Jamaican bat Guano high in KP

The medium you use will have cal/mag in it. Most strains dont require allot of cal/mag amendments. If you are using a soil less medium then you will need to add these to the medium before you use it.

I use to make my own Medium.

Sunshine mix#2 with 1 2cf bag of Happy frog, 1 bag of Light Warrior, More Perlite, Lime(this is the cal/mag)Bat guano , Worm Castings , Mix well wet and let it cook for 24 hrs(let it sit) After that It can be used. I find that some bags of there OF is HOT and needs to cook for 24hrs before I use it seedlings and small plants can suffer greatly from this.

Hope this helps you

 

[the gnome]

thanks hammer, lots of good info.
I hope I can get this under control, last time i lost 75% of the plants.

I gave me a tsp per gallon, as per instructions, guess its way too much and causing lockouts?
if your using 2ml per gal and are good with your cal+mag I must be OD'ing my plants
no it then

but what I'm trying to understand and is confusing me
the 1st time they were getting straight RO and no cal mag, they got like this and after giving them the cal mag they slowly started to recover and are looking like i can get cuts from them now
but the new plants have been getting calmag and they are getting sick looking like the plants that didn't get it.

 

[Hammerhead]

Same strains? It depends on what strain you are growing most dont need much cal/mag but there are some that are big time cal/mag hogs.

It should be no more then 5ml per gal I dont know what a TSP is in mils. In my mind I'm picturing that 1TSP is less then 5mils. If you want to use it all the time only use 2 mls per gal you wont need anymore unless you get one of those strains that just cant get enough.


Get rid of the epson you dont need both

 

[GP2B]

I'm not sure your symptoms look to be caused by Cal/Mg but Cal/Mag + tends to have issues, especially if it's old. I'm certain it goes bad over time. I've used the exact same nutes and close to same soil. (50% FFOF and 50% ProMix HP, I also like PBP Soil Bloom)

Flush with lots of Ph'd RO water, then immediately feed with.
25% Tap, 75% RO
12.5ml Grow Big
5ml Cal Mag +
1/2 teaspoon Epsom Salt.
Ph to 6.7

1teaspoon=5ml

Calibrate your Ph pen, shake all nutes very well, and don't water again till top of soil starts to dry out or when the pot gets light. Once everything is stabilized you can eliminate the extra Mg but keep using the 25% tap. It adds extra Cal/Mg as well as a buffer. Your plants will never be healthier. Trust me!

 

[joe fresh]

imo it looks like lockout, or overfert....


adding lime to your soil should have fixed any cal/mg probs, so you shouldnt need the cal/mg additive or the epsom salts....

so the fact you added lime and are adding cal/mg is making me think you are getting a lockout...

but using ffof and fertilizing with too high a ppm can easily cause lockout or root burn...


with ffof ive heard it both ways, some bags are really weak, and others are too hot, so overall thery are very inconsistant in their batches of soil....i have never used it but i have heard many stories both ways...

 

[MagniKhan]

Just a question, maybe you had mentioned it in the other thread.
Why are you using RO in your soil grows? Is your water that bad?

My local water supply has chloramines instead of chlorine, so I ran with RO in both my soil and hydro grows. What a waste of time and money.
As time went on and reading about all kinds of growers in my area using tap water I started using it in my soil grows. No ill effects, so I began to use it in my hydro grows as of late, and still no change in my plants.

I'll installing my water filter under the sink in the kitchen soon, that way it can be used for drinking water!

 

[Madrus Rose]

Stay with the ro & Cal mag 5-10mls...skip Epsom ( unless your visiting Seedbay over in Surrey , UK )

if u want to play , foliar the Epsom 1/4tsp qt wont hurt

or u can add to a smoothie or soak your feet in it too (with warm water )

 

[the gnome]

Just a question, maybe you had mentioned it in the other thread.
Why are you using RO in your soil grows? Is your water that bad?

My local water supply has chloramines instead of chlorine, so I ran with RO in both my soil and hydro grows. What a waste of time and money.
As time went on and reading about all kinds of growers in my area using tap water I started using it in my soil grows. No ill effects, so I began to use it in my hydro grows as of late, and still no change in my plants.

I using RO because theres a water softener at the grow I get my water from. I didn't have this troble till I strated this grow at this site and started using strictly RO.
I think I'm just going to flush well and haul tap water into the grow. my other grow never had these probs and i used collected rain runoff from a roof and tap.

I posted on my last page my runoff is about 570ppm and after adding veg nutes it averages double that +200ish
my highest was almost 1500ppm.
would this cause a lock out?
now, @ 1-tsp/5ml calmag per gal my ppms are @240
seems too hi a concentration considering its a minor niutrient and my tap is 70ppm, so if i can get adequate C+M from tap then at 240 its over 3 times that and theres calmag in my veg nutes.
so it sounds like I'm really over doing it with cal mag.
what is a normal concentration of CM in water and what is way too much?

I want to understand whats going on.
and i agree lockout seems to be in play or multiple lockouts.
if I cure the lock out how long to start seing improvement.
I afraid to not give calmag and it gets worse and I'm afraid if i do it will make it worse also...
the suggestions above say keep the calmag at 5mla gal and another say a capfull to 5 gallons

my last pic shows a fan that looks like it has a zinc def like in the infirmary pic? the outer edge is lite green, pic doesnt do justice

well anyhoo... you guys here are great
I really appreciate everyone thats dropped in to offer help and please offer more info on this situation

 

[GP2B]

Just follow what I said. Give it two weeks.
Get your tap water from the spigot outside, this should bypass the softener.

If you want to be 100% sure the 1st time, go out and pick up a fresh bottle of cal mag +

 

[joe fresh]

well if you want to be 100% sure your problem is fixed, go get a bottle of florakleen or drip clean, flush your plants well,let dry out then give plain water for the next 2 waterings, then start back up on feeding schedule at 1/2 strength....you should see improvements in 2 weeks at most....