Top House Republican complaining that Obama administration is not fighting drug war h

[Greensub]

damn... I missed out on this thread

damn... I missed out on this thread

I like these political threads.

I think argumentation and debate are very important forms of critical thinking. We really do need to hash out these specifics amongst ourselves.

Personally I've never registered with either party (I consider myself a progressive libertarian... I'm not gonna try to explain it here)

Until the last decade or so I've always voted depending on a candidates position on legalization (still do) usually I vote republican in the primary & democratic in the final election (dictated by the choices presented to me locally)

I would vote for Ron Paul or Gary Johnson over Obama, I won't vote for Palin, Huckabee or Mitt Romney. That means I'll probably follow the same formula in 2012 (vote for the most popular of the two in the primaries and when they loose... vote for Obama again)

Actually, I'd still have misgivings about a libertarian in the office of president unless it was balanced out somewhere on the progressive side elsewhere in the branches of government.

I almost want to start some shit up just for the fun of arguing but I don't want to be a troll... (but here's some raw meat... I'll try to relate it to marijuana)

Free Trade Vs Fair Trade (sounds fairly benign doesn't it... ahhbwahahaha...)

"The Nanny State" (My fiance is alive because of Medicare... not that it doesn't need improvement, but not by a libertarian, personally I preferred the public option, I actually read that bill... whoops! that's not relate-able to Marijuana... wow I must be stoned... look at how long this [bracketed?] run-on sentence is... and how many ellipses I've used... I just hate the phrase Nanny State and someone threw that out there... oh ya I can tie it in to MMJ... didn't the VA recently ease up and approve the use of medical marijuana for veteran's [I don't remember the specifics right now]... [just went and found it... http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/24/health/policy/24veterans.html, that's a plus]... wonder if this will time out before I finish this sentence?)

Capitalism Vs ... (I forgot what I was going to contrast this with... Entrepreneurship? no that's not it... can't remember what I was gonna say, maybe it will come to me... it's probably covered under fair vs free trade...)

I'm sitting and watching hannity interviewing palin right now and I'm reminded of how much I hate most republicans... although I do remember a thread mentioning a quote by her that she didn't think marijuana was a big problem but that's the only positive thing I can say about her (but she's an easy target).

woo hoo!

(maybe Texicannibis will chime in)

 

[Ben Tokin]

A lot of people take what they hear and see on msm to make their decisions on various politicians. I can see how the Sarah Palin news has influenced many here.

Personally, I'm not overly impressed with Sarah, but, given the other possible choices, I would vote for her in a heartbeat. That's not saying much, but she has a much clearer mind on many issues than most. I believe that she would be the best advocate for cannabis out of anyone I've seen so far.

A lot of people criticize her for no reason other than what the MSM spews about her. The image of her that they have very successfully created is not a very flattering one. In this respect they were successful.

My opinion of her is that of an independent and common sense type person who is willing to speak her mind. These attributes scare the living shit out of the special interests and political party bosses. The reason she is constantly being attacked by the media is because she is a female who can communicate effectively and with conviction.

The political parties have attempted to keep men and women politically separated because it is the easiest way to attain a 50/50 balance between the parties. Abortion continues to be raised in an effort to keep women in the Democratic party, even though it is not as important as the MSM make it out to be. If Sarah Palin was allowed to be a successful presidential contender she would upset the 50/50 balance to the GOP side.

You have to know how politics and media works hand in hand to fully understand why you think and feel the way you do about public personas.

I can see by the way many here comment about various politicians and public figures that the MSM has done it's job very well.

When they say "programming network" or "news program", think about it a little bit. I think most of you have been "programmed" very successfully.

Last bit, I got this off of Real Politics:

hot microphone caught a conversation between a male and female Senator.

"Because -- because, it's all rigged. I mean, the whole conversation is rigged. The fact that we don't get to discussion before the break about what we're going to do in the lame duck is just rigged. This stuff's rigged," the Senator said.

 

[Greensub]

A lot of people take what they hear and see on msm to make their decisions on various politicians. I can see how the Sarah Palin news has influenced many here.

Personally, I'm not overly impressed with Sarah, but, given the other possible choices, I would vote for her in a heartbeat. That's not saying much, but she has a much clearer mind on many issues than most. I believe that she would be the best advocate for cannabis out of anyone I've seen so far.

A lot of people criticize her for no reason other than what the MSM spews about her. The image of her that they have very successfully created is not a very flattering one. In this respect they were successful.

My opinion of her is that of an independent and common sense type person who is willing to speak her mind. These attributes scare the living shit out of the special interests and political party bosses. The reason she is constantly being attacked by the media is because she is a female who can communicate effectively and with conviction.

The political parties have attempted to keep men and women politically separated because it is the easiest way to attain a 50/50 balance between the parties. Abortion continues to be raised in an effort to keep women in the Democratic party, even though it is not as important as the MSM make it out to be. If Sarah Palin was allowed to be a successful presidential contender she would upset the 50/50 balance to the GOP side.

You have to know how politics and media works hand in hand to fully understand why you think and feel the way you do about public personas.

I can see by the way many here comment about various politicians and public figures that the MSM has done it's job very well.

When they say "programming network" or "news program", think about it a little bit. I think most of you have been "programmed" very successfully.

Last bit, I got this off of Real Politics:

I'm assuming the MSM is the mainstream media?

just to clarify... you think "sarah palin would be the best advocate for cannabis"?

How has she ever advocated for cannabis in any way?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Sarah Palin Calls Marijuana "Minimal Problem"

Sarah Palin Calls Marijuana "Minimal Problem"

CBS News
June 17, 2010

That's right, pot smokers: You have something of an ally in Sarah Palin.

The former Alaska governor appeared on Fox Business Network last night, along with libertarian-leaning Republican Rep. Ron Paul. Paul is a longtime advocate of decriminalizing drugs at a federal level and leaving the issue to the states, something Palin would not endorse.

"If we're talking about pot, I'm not for the legalization of pot," Palin said, as Politico first noted. "I think that would just encourage especially our young people to think that it was OK to just go ahead and use it."

But she went on to say that police should not focus on arresting people who use marijuana recreationally.


"I think we need to prioritize our law enforcement efforts," Palin said. "And if somebody's gonna smoke a joint in their house and not do anybody else any harm, then perhaps there are other things our cops should be looking at to engage in and try to clean up some of the other problems that we have in society."



She added that marijuana use "relatively speaking" is a "minimal problem" in the country.



Palin has admitted to smoking when it was legal for personal use in Alaska, saying she "can't...say that I never inhaled." The state recriminalized the drug in 2006.

The [FOX NEWS] conversation about marijuana begins at the 13:00 mark.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20008091-503544.html

 

[TexasMonster]

A lot of people take what they hear and see on msm to make their decisions on various politicians. I can see how the Sarah Palin news has influenced many here.

Personally, I'm not overly impressed with Sarah, but, given the other possible choices, I would vote for her in a heartbeat. That's not saying much, but she has a much clearer mind on many issues than most. I believe that she would be the best advocate for cannabis out of anyone I've seen so far.

A lot of people criticize her for no reason other than what the MSM spews about her. The image of her that they have very successfully created is not a very flattering one. In this respect they were successful.

My opinion of her is that of an independent and common sense type person who is willing to speak her mind. These attributes scare the living shit out of the special interests and political party bosses. The reason she is constantly being attacked by the media is because she is a female who can communicate effectively and with conviction.

The political parties have attempted to keep men and women politically separated because it is the easiest way to attain a 50/50 balance between the parties. Abortion continues to be raised in an effort to keep women in the Democratic party, even though it is not as important as the MSM make it out to be. If Sarah Palin was allowed to be a successful presidential contender she would upset the 50/50 balance to the GOP side.

You have to know how politics and media works hand in hand to fully understand why you think and feel the way you do about public personas.

I can see by the way many here comment about various politicians and public figures that the MSM has done it's job very well.

When they say "programming network" or "news program", think about it a little bit. I think most of you have been "programmed" very successfully.

Last bit, I got this off of Real Politics:

I am a Palin fan. She is not electable though. You guys think the media was hard on her last time? Let her run for any federal seat/office/appointment again and see what happens. You can always judge how awesome a female on the Right is by how hard the media on the Left slams her. Condie was smarter than that, which is to bad, as she would have been an awesome President.

You have to remember that Sarah is on the Right side of the isle and just can not come out and say she thinks grass ought to be legal, not many on the Right are ready for grass yet. That sucks for me because I am a Rightie. I just go Left on two social issues that I think my side of the isle ought to butt out of.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Uhhhh....sarah palin is AT BEST suited for that lame ass reality show she has about alaska. Her becoming president? Gimme a fucking break. I can walk into any PTA meeting at any elementary school in the nation and find 2 or 3 women who are as capable as Sarah Palin is at becoming our next president. The fact that she was even nominated as the VP in the 2008 election was a huge smack in the face to GOP voters and one of the reasons it cost McCain his election. She was about as underqualified a candidate as you could have possibly found.

Now im not saying that shes a bad person or that I dont like her. In fact I have the Hustler DVD "Nailin' Palin". . But id like to see people who run this country be experienced, intelligent, well-spoken, knowledgeable candidates and unfortunatly I just dont see any of these qualities in Sarah Palin. She has done incredibly well for herself due to the circumstances (fox news pundant, reality tv star, and paid public speaker) but I hope she realizes that she is not fit to run the most powerful country in the world.

If your looking for a republican candidate to endorse the legalization of marijuana:

Former New Mexico Gov. Gary E. Johnson Tests Florida Waters for President


URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v10/n984/a03.html
Source: St. Petersburg Times (FL)
Author: Marc Caputo, Times/Herald Tallahassee Bureau



TALLAHASSEE - A self-made millionaire Republican is campaigning in Florida on a platform of spending cuts and less government.

It's not Rick Scott, anymore.

This is Gary E. Johnson, a former New Mexico governor and advocate for the legalization of marijuana, who's putting out Florida feelers in a possible bid for the presidency in 2012.

Johnson's campaign-style stops in Tallahassee, Melbourne and Orlando last week reveal that the presidential race is already at a low boil in the nation's largest swing state.

Without Florida, Republicans say, they can't recapture the White House.

Johnson shrugs when told he's a long-shot candidate compared with better-known former governors Mitt Romney and Sarah Palin and current Govs. Haley Barbour and Tim Pawlenty. Johnson has overcome long odds before. As a political newcomer, he shocked the political establishment when he beat a three-term incumbent in 1992, an echo of Scott's out-of-nowhere success in Florida.

Johnson says his legacy of record vetoes and tax cuts from 1995 to 2003 in New Mexico separate him from the crowd of likely presidential hopefuls.

So does his position on pot and the drug war.

"The issue of marijuana legalization is obviously an attention-getter," Johnson said. "And you can't shy away from it. I have to defend it. I have to defend the position."

Johnson's reasons: Marijuana is less harmful than alcohol and the costs of locking up pot smokers exacts too much of a toll on civil liberties and on taxpayers. He said marijuana would be considered less of a gateway drug if it were sold alongside "more dangerous drugs" like booze.

"I don't drink. I don't smoke pot. But I've drank and I've smoked pot," said Johnson, an accomplished triathlete who once scaled Mount Everest. "The big difference between the two is that marijuana is a lot safer than alcohol."

Johnson said it shouldn't be legal to sell marijuana to children, or to operate a car under the influence. He said he also opposes legalizing cocaine, heroin or crystal methamphetamine.

Johnson said that, in two years, a majority of Americans would likely support the legalization of marijuana, according to polling. But, he acknowledged, it isn't easy to quickly explain his position on the drug war in a Republican primary.

"And it's not, really, a 30-second sound-bite deal," he said. "It's maybe about a three-minute deal."

But campaigns are driven by half-minute ads, especially in a state as big as Florida. And the average GOP primary voter isn't likely to support decriminalizing pot.

When told of Johnson's position on legalizing marijuana, Republican Party of Florida chairman John Thrasher, a St. Augustine senator, gave a skeptical "Oh, boy" as a response. Thrasher sounded more enthusiastic about the fact that Johnson was in the state in the first place.

"The presidential campaign has already begun," Thrasher said. "There are people running for president and they're coming here because Florida's going to play a big role."

Thrasher said the party is "optimistic" about holding an event called "Presidency V" next fall in which the party and a "major news organization" would host a debate for the major Republican candidates for president. Thrasher was less sanguine about holding an early primary, as the party did in January 2008, or holding an early, nonbinding straw poll, as it did in 1995.

Because of the Electoral College, Florida is a must-win for Republicans, who need the Sunshine State and Texas to balance out traditional Democratic wins in New York and California. In 2012, Florida takes on added importance because its share of the Electoral College - currently 27 - could grow by two.

Also, Tampa will host the GOP national convention, where the Republican nominee will officially be named.

Early surveys show Johnson polls in the single digits. But supporters and detractors alike say he could benefit from the support of tea party conservatives and backers of Ron Paul, who has spoken favorably of the former New Mexico governor.

Like Paul, Johnson wants major changes to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. And Johnson said the United States should withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan and cut defense spending.

Johnson also opposes President Barack Obama's health care plan and criticizes the Republican-passed Medicare prescription drug benefit under President George W. Bush because it wasn't paid for.

"It's a new ball game thanks to the tea party, and Gary Johnson's fiscal positions and record are really appealing," said Mark Cross, an Osceola County Republican official and the executive director of Florida Campaign for Liberty, a nonprofit affiliated with Paul.

In addition to speaking to Republicans last week, Johnson also met with the University of Central Florida student chapter of the National Organization for the Reformation of Marijuana Laws.

Cross, who helped set up luncheons and Republican meet-and-greets for Paul in Orlando and Melbourne, said Johnson's record should overcome Republican doubts about his position on the drug war.

Cross said the better-known Romney could face more trouble than Johnson because the former Massachusetts governor instituted an insurance mandate that was used as a model in Obama's health plan.

"Johnson's strength is his vetoes," said Cross, noting that the former New Mexico governor vetoed nearly 750 bills from a Democratic Legislature. Johnson also forced some tax cuts and crusaded for school choice initiatives.

"He was an extremely conservative governor. But he had a strong libertarian streak," said Max Coll, a Santa Fe Democrat who was the state House budget chief in New Mexico during Johnson's term.

"He was very dogmatic," Coll said of Johnson. "He wanted to do it his way or else."

As a result, in his final year in office, Johnson watched the New Mexico Legislature convene in a first-ever special session and override his veto of the state budget.

Johnson said he sees similarities with Gov.-elect Scott, who largely financed his own campaign and came out of the private sector to win the governor's mansion. A big difference, though: Scott spent about $73 million out of $96 million on his own campaign. Johnson said he spent about $510,000 of the $540,000 on his race.

"The parallels between myself and him are very similar," Johnson said. "The idea was that you weren't buying anything. If you were going to contribute, there was going to be no quid pro quo. There's nothing for sale. I see that with your governor-elect."

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Bring the hammer down GOP!

 

[Confidential]

I some what agree but what repub would that be.? They are pretty much lock and step on this issue....And so are there counterparts the tea party.

Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are both registered Republicans, with Ron Paul being a Republican from Texas in the House of Representatives and Gary Johnson being a former Republican Governor of New Mexico. Gary Johnson plans on making a Presidential bid in 2012. Ron Paul is, so far, undecided whether he will run again. Both of them are highly out-spoken against the Drug War as a whole, and would put cannabis legalization very high on the "to-do" list.

I was going to say Gary Johnson as well. There's also Brian Gruber, though it doesn't appear he did well in the recent midterms.

I'm a dyed in the wool progressive, but if someone on my team supports something I don't like (FISA, war on drugs, patriot act, etc) I'm going to call them on it, and conversely, if someone on the other team does something right, they deserve credit. Even though we are stuck with voting on bundles of issues via a candidate (less so if you're in more progrssive areas w/ referendum votes, but still...), it does us no good to be hyper partisan. Your team will throw your ass under the money bus at the drop of a hat no matter how loyal you are. Holding the elected representatives on your team to their word does a lot more good than bitching about the other guys.

As for counterparts to the tea party, that could mean a lot of things, but if you're referring to super progressive liberals, I would suggest you look at Alan Grayson. He lost his bid for reelection in the recent midterms, but while in congress he was a good balancing factor against the extreme positions of the tea party and far right republicans. He employed many of the same tactics which work so well for the right, but those tactics apparently didn't work as well to gain support from more moderate progressives.

I sincerely hope that more Republicans wake up to the message of legalization since it's perfectly in line with what they say they stand for. Unfortunately I don't see too many Republicans who actually stand for what they say they stand for. This goes for Dem's too, but they do more for me than the alternative. Sigh... maybe one day we'll have a better electoral system that rewards new ideas that challenge the status quo.

 

[TexasMonster]

I sincerely hope that more Republicans wake up to the message of legalization since it's perfectly in line with what they say they stand for. Unfortunately I don't see too many Republicans who actually stand for what they say they stand for.

You have summed my party up pretty good right now. We purport to be for less govt intrusion and spending yet in my lifetime not a one of them has kept that promise. I am 42.

At least the Left has given their constituents what they said they would, more govt and more spending.

 

[Finepointcanon]

September 22, 2010
Top House Republican complaining that Obama administration is not fighting drug war hard enough
As detailed in this report from The Hill, which is headlined "Republican: Obama administration fosters use of marijuana," at least one House Republican wants the Obama Administration to keep growing one part of the federal government:

Rep. Lamar Smith (Texas) accused the administration of being too lax in its enforcement of drug laws. President Obama's drug policies are encouraging increased marijuana use, a top Republican lawmaker charged Tuesday.

Rep. Lamar Smith (Texas), the top Republican member of the House Judiciary Committee who would likely become chairman of the committee under a GOP majority, accused the administration of being too lax in its enforcement of drug laws. "The administration is clearly sending the message that they don't think it's bad to use marijuana," Smith said on Fox News. "So they're encouraging the use of marijuana. And that simply is not a good thing to do."

Smith blamed the administration's decision to not enforce federal laws against marijuana dispensaries in states that have legalized the drug for medicinal purposes. Smith blamed the administration's approach on drug laws for recent statistics showing an increased use of marijuana.

"We ought to be enforcing our drug laws, not backing away from them," said Smith, who also lamented a recent revision of criminal sentencing guidelines that reduced sentencing guidelines for crack-cocaine traffickers. Proponents of the law in both parties had pushed that reform because sentencing for crack-related drug crimes were much more severe than for similar amounts of cocaine, a disparity which fueled a racial divide in drug sentencing.

As this article highlights, a Republican take-over of the House of Representatives this fall would likely result in Representative Lamar Smith becoming the chair of the House Judiciary Committee. And Representative Smith has long been a vocal proponent of the war on drugs and an array of other tough-on-crimes measures that have increased the severity and scope of the federal criminal justice system.

http://sentencing.typepad.com/sente...ion-is-not-fighting-drug-war-hard-enough.html

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

At least the Left has given their constituents what they said they would, more govt and more spending.

Urban myth.

 

[TexasMonster]

Urban myth.

Ummm, you have left the big spender out. Also, I cant read the source of your graph.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

It's an old pic, maybe I can find it for you.

According to 2008 CBO, big spender had 90 cents of every discretionary dollar tapped from Bush deficits.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Ummm, you have left the big spender out. Also, I cant read the source of your graph.

here's the link, sources are posted on the web page

http://cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm

 

[TexasMonster]

here's the link, sources are posted on the web page

http://cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm

I see and I do thank you for taking the time out to share the link and information with me.

The sentence that appeared under the graph that you displayed is interesting.

" The graph above in Figure 3 illustrates the myth that you can cut taxes and increase spending and expect to get increased government revenue."

Not many of us think you can cut taxes and increase spending to get an increased govt rev. Many of us do, however, feel you can cut taxes and (very important and) cut spending to achieve govt rev. If you increase the taxes of the rich they will put their money up instead of releasing it which in turn helps the lower tax brackets. This is just my opinion and I realize we will not agree. This too is ok. What I cant stand is how polarized we get with each other (in general) over politics. Its the polarization (and I think its intended) that keeps us from actually getting anything done, ¿que no?

 

[BrainSellz]

The [FOX NEWS] conversation about marijuana begins at the 13:00 mark.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20008091-503544.html

damn they always wait till the end to get to the pot talk....anyhow this gave me a vision of palin paul 2012.....

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

...Not many of us think you can cut taxes and increase spending to get an increased govt rev.

Good point. I was just showing that spending vs revenue is consistent vs party. One runs surpluses and the other runs deficits.

Many of us do, however, feel you can cut taxes and (very important and) cut spending to achieve govt rev. If you increase the taxes of the rich they will put their money up instead of releasing it which in turn helps the lower tax brackets. This is just my opinion and I realize we will not agree. This too is ok. What I cant stand is how polarized we get with each other (in general) over politics. Its the polarization (and I think its intended) that keeps us from actually getting anything done, ¿que no?

I agree spending has to be cut. But we've had three decades of trickle-down and now we've got the largest income disparity since 1929. On average, our parents did better than we're doing today.

 

[Ben Tokin]

Good point. I was just showing that spending vs revenue is consistent vs party. One runs surpluses and the other runs deficits.



I agree spending has to be cut. But we've had three decades of trickle-down and now we've got the largest income disparity since 1929. On average, our parents did better than we're doing today.

Clinton had a GOP congress for 6 of his 8 years . Reagan and Bush I had a mostly Demo congress. Bush II had a Demo congress for the last two years and demos filibustered the senate his entire term to get their spending approved.

Congress writes and passes spending legislation. Presidents can either approve or attempt to veto legislation.

You seem to be related to Nancy Pelosi.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

All 3 branches can and will introduce, all three have to pass. Numbers help differentiate deficits from surplussed. I doubt the current prez will balance his budgets but neither did FDR.

 

[Baba Ku]

FDR was a joke too.