HelisHome - 272w CFL Micro HDSOG - Sub-$500 All-In-One Cabinet

[fatigues]

Either way I will order my PL-L setup in the next day or so. I will hold off on 6500k bulbs until I start new cabs, or perhaps I will get some shorter ones to line the top of my veg space with... But that is later.

Very nice. I hope they work great for you.

You also might be interested to hear I bought Reflectix, I need to line the walls of my cab but Mylar is a bloody headache to install well. So I caved.

It's hard to argue with a great product that installs nicely. Get a light sabre sharp utility knife and some Reflectix foil tape and you are good to go.

Oh and I am 80% sure I will be cooltubing my PL-Ls, with a reflector above the tubes. I will wait until I have my bulbs before hunting down tubing, though I'm fairly certain ScrubNinja was right and they are T12 sized bulbsleeves. By the way Scrub thank you muchly as well, this next round should be wonderful in thanks to this great internet resource and you've been a big help.

Tube guards are a little thin and can deform under heat near the base of the bulb. I went with 2" clear Central Vac tubing instead of tube guards. It's a little thicker, but seems to work well. It's at Home Depot. It's also available online here. If you plan to use pvc elbows with your tubes, I would recommend ordering them from this site as well. It's WAY cheaper than my local Home Depot ($70 bucks cheaper in my case!. Elbows are far too expensive at retail prices in my local Home Depot when you start looking at buying 20+of them.)

http://www.centralvacuumstores.com/cvs/fittings.php

Assuming you want to install and vent these tubes via a U shaped light trap, you want the Medium 90 degree Spigot (.75) and the short 90 degree elbow. They fit one inside the other. You can also order the 2" tubing from this site, pre-cut in 2' lengths for a buck a foot.

If you have something else in mind, and need a lot of parts, this place seems a good source for your DIY PL-L cooltube urges.

If you have looked at Pedro's removal of the 55w PL-L bulb base, and chose to add on some simple clips to use to attach your wires to the base of the bulbs in the cool tubes? You could feed the wires through a small hole in an elbow or tube and then put the entire bulb in air tight contained cool tube. Add in multiple elbows and tubes per lamp to merge from one intake and exhaust tube to and from multiple tubes? Entirely doable, with some VERY fancy schmancy results.

I had a friend give me 3 grams of .999 silver... I will either flatten & roll these out into longer rods (have access to most of that equipment).

Oh you are golden then. Even if you don't roll it out, what you have will work, you just have to shake and stir the hell out of it when you check it 12 hours later. If you can roll out your piece of silver to lengthen it first? Even better.

I do like the RO machine I found but will be holding off. At least for now.

There is something to be said for bottled RO or distilled water. It's quick cheap and painlessly easy to use. And as long as you have it on hand - you are not waiting to squeeze it out of your tap over the course of a few hours - which really is nice.

The practicality of bottled water depends on the size of your grow of course. For a micro grow? Totally feasible, at least in the short to medium run.

 

[Helis]

It's hard to argue with a great product that installs nicely. Get a light sabre sharp utility knife and some Reflectix foil tape and you are good to go.

Got PLENTY of blades around the home, just need to go get reflective tape with no printing on it (the ONLY time I will cave just for aesthetics).

Tube guards are a little thin and can deform under heat near the base of the bulb. I went with 2" clear Central Vac tubing instead of tube guards. It's a little thicker, but seems to work well. It's at Home Depot. It's also available online here.

Good to know. I had thought they felt a little flimsy. I have sourced clear PVC but could not find it at your linked retailer, also have found 1/16" polycarbonate tube in a variety of IDs. That should hold up to 250° F and be pretty thin. Was it you that said they were getting ~185° F at the bulb base? I also can get pyrex in the right dimensions, but for price reasons I think this will be done with some sort of plastic.

If you plan to use pvc elbows with your tubes

I hadn't, rather planned on doing a wooden "fan box" with 3-4 80mm fans which would have a plastic or fiberglass manifold going to the four tubes, then another manifold back to a grouped wooden exhaust box. But then I read this

You could feed the wires through a small hole in an elbow or tube and then put the entire bulb in air tight contained cool tube. Add in multiple elbows and tubes per lamp to merge from one intake and exhaust tube to and from multiple tubes? Entirely doable, with some VERY fancy schmancy results.

Now you have me thinking.... Which is good because I am currently off from work (I work in spurts, making money and buying myself "free time") and need something to fill that mentally stimulating void that is created when I'm not busy all day every day.
I did see Pedro's hack and it is likely a good addition to better cooling. Part of me is always wary with disassembly, though I tend to do pretty well with it. I will see how easy it is to play with the tubes when I get them.

I will also see how easy it is to reshape these 999 silver "coins", but I don't mind a little shaking for some CS. It's not like it's mud, just particles in fluid.

Well the RO machine I was looking at is 50 gallons per day... Not bad, but way more than I need. I have a small stock of distilled here at home and won't shy away from using it. Just don't want to run into issues like needing to add cal/mag (though I've heard epsom works for mag deficiencies just fine), or needing to add anything back, really. Trying to keep nutrients simple... Additives only as a treat & for beneficials, and the base nutrients need to be (and are) insanely easy to mix. Sometimes I am too busy or disposed to do much "tending," and sometimes it is not me doing it.

Thanks for the feedback!


Helis

 

[Helis]

"Hi all"

Been in pain and depressed recently. Having serious complications with my back (though in a different part of my spine than usual, which is worrying) so I have been on bedrest.

I realized that last run I was chasing a cooler room temp with high air exchange. At least 5 a minute. I thought 5 a minute was fine, but I was looking for 1 every 5 minutes. Stoner mistake on the basics. I intend on using the new fans (or maybe just one, seeing how strong they are) with a thermostat set to 78 (ambient in here is 75 winter, 80-84 summertime).
Does anyone who has been reading this think that 220w of PL-L lamps in 4 separate 2" clear pipes, fed 20-40 cfm each will raise the ambient more than 2°-4°? I know there is a chart for this, but it only tells me that for 250w of lighting, 40 cfm will create a 20° ∆T. I can't do a 20° difference, but could do more than 40cfm... And could tube them separate.

I have thought about 2" pipe for each 55w bulb with a 2" - 3" pvc adapter at the end, with a 3" 30cfm PC fan mounted in the PVC tube. Each individual pipe would meet at a "junction channel" running to my light exhaust, so there should be little restriction aside from the size of my exhaust.
Does anyone think they can all be cooled with one fan? Cooled WELL?
Fatigues when I get back at the computer I'll have a go and look at what you've done with yours. Maybe you could tell me more? CFM through tubes, wattage, etc?

I have been considering the 126w panels from LEDGirl as I wouldn't run into temp issues, even this summer. Something I am worried about with the PL-Ls is having to put in $ for cooling in the summertime, AC or otherwise. It would save me time & headaches running piping, allow me to cut 1/2 my fans out, but would also mean I need to re-learn my plant feedings. The only reason I'm even thinking about this is that she is selling some first gens for $375 which is what they were early October. Probably not going to get cheaper for a while.

Ideas? Opinions?

Back to bed, sativas have been keeping a smile on my face but I don't have any good cannabis indica on hand so pharmas it is.

Helis

 

[Helis]

Re-posting this here for my own purposes. Looks like I will be moving the glass up 1" and not cool "tubing", though if I ever do build a new cab I have a lot of ideas in mind.... But at that point I'll probably just be going bigger.

Hey Helis,

I'm assuming you're buiding a 2 stage vent design.

1) 5 ACPM is only 1.2 CFM in a 6 cuft cab. That's next to nothing. I'm getting about 15 CFM using a computer fan and about 1sqft of filter area with a depth of 1". I'd increase the carbon depth to lower your airflow and make the filter more effective at the same time. That's easier than switching with a thermostat.

2) Running the lights inside a cooltube will keep the heat out of the box. The airflow at 20* to 30*F heat rise through the cooltube will limit the growbox temp to +1 to +2 degrees.

220W (4 x 55) needs is 20 to 35 CFM through the cooltubes for a 20 to 30 rise in exhaust temps. At 70* ambient the hottest the tubes will get will be 100* and that will raise the box temps up 1-4*F. That's why you can get away with 5 MpAC.

3) I'd recommend sectioning off the lights using a piece of glass rather than installing 4 tubes and having to duct them all together.

No LEDs for me for now. They look good, but lack well confirmed results like PL-L lighting has. Also the rather large price difference. Normally I would jump on "the bleeding edge" but not this time, not when a supply of medicine is on the line. I need to work on my canna skill before going too nuts.

Also I am going to go to the hardware store in a few days and spend $10 and turn my E&F tray into a top drip setup, which will favor the perpetual grow better. A friend of mine a state away runs a small (legal crop) greenhouse and just switched from E&F to drip and it had me thinking. I also have noticed a lot of rootmass homogenizing going on in my close-to-finish peppers in E&F (hton in netpots) and want to avoid this with my cannabis. Likely recirculating (as I had planned E&F anyway) but it will allow me to run DTW with coco if I make that move in the future. It will also let me give water to those that drink them more than others, and be able to set aside plants to flush without having a separate flood tray for them (which I was building last week, before I got all twisted up). Oh and less nutrients to mix. What's not to love!

I am starting to feel much better and for once the doctor has been a great help. Luckily I am starting a job (and a grow! ) soon so I am feeling less financially stressed than I normally would be in a situation like this. I will put up some pics of the cab in its stages of evolution. There is going to have to be some hacking done.



Helis

 

[fatigues]

3) I'd recommend sectioning off the lights using a piece of glass rather than installing 4 tubes and having to duct them all together.

I have to agree with Red. I went with cooltubes because of my 360 degree lighting design - but that's the only reason. PL-Ls just don't get that hot; indeed, most standard CFL bulbs get hotter than a PL-L. It does not take a lot to cool PL-Ls.

The only real issue is whether or not your plants will come directly into contact with the lamp. If so, the tips in contact can look a little burned - though it's more that there has been prolonged and sustained water evaporation from the leaf edge, as opposed to signs of carbonized vegetable matter. You aren't going to be doing any hash hotknives if you put a 55w PL-L lamp in each hand and cross them over some bubble

For a horizontally lit cab, putting the 4 lamps behind a piece of glass like in Scrubninja's or Superpedro's cab is a superior design, cheaper to build, definitely easier to build and just as efficient at cooling.

 

[Helis]

For a horizontally lit cab, putting the 4 lamps behind a piece of glass like in Scrubninja's or Superpedro's cab is a superior design, cheaper to build, definitely easier to build and just as efficient at cooling.

And it's already how my cab is set up...
Just need to add some extra flow.
After poking around tonight, I realized I can regain 1/2" of height without serious work, so... Why bother?

PLLs will fit right in and be fine. Gonna grab a few low dB PC fans to cool the bulbs and a good 12v supply. Sure I have one around here somewhere...

Really have to stick to the KISS method I "overengineer," at home at work and apparently in the garden

Cab will finally get proper lightproofing (making some Ninja louvers tomorrow), airflow will be minimal (but plenty of circulation) through the grow space and as efficient as can be over the lights. I think I've had so many heat problems in the past, I am way overestimating how much heat I'll have to cool.

Cab is going to be damn near silent...

I will post some pics up over the next week(s) of renovations. Did a big tear-down tonight. Should be able to order the lights in a few days.

EDIT:
More good news, my JW "Paul and Cindy" beans have left their point of origin.
Also Magic Bus has micro-vegetation starting in the center of a bud.
Keeping my hopes up over the next week for developments on both of these.

 

[ScrubNinja]

I never actually got around to using a glass shield. I've never used one so it's a little tricky to recommend anything to you. I kind of liked the tubes idea. I know with my grow, a lot of the buds were up in between two bulbs and apart from temps in my case, that's a very sweet spot which you won't get with a flat shield.

 

[Helis]

Well my last run I did have a glass shield up, kept the raw bulb temps out (coil CFLs) but it lacked proper laminar airflow... It was simply an oversight on the build. I should have enough airflow in the right places this time around, but there will be much testing to ensure this.

I did like the idea that if I were running tubes, 1" from the ceiling, there is a space in which plants can get very comfy with the high lumens. However I will be doing a SOG so it is questionable how many plants would benefit from this at a time.

Either way I'm excited.

 

[ScrubNinja]

I finally gave in and looked up "laminar". Amazing.

Ok carry on

 

[Helis]

getting closer and closer....

getting closer and closer....

Scrub that is a good example of how it works, in fluids at least. In airflow it is not much different... Just less trippy.
That video reminds me of watching old oil disc projections strewn across walls... Like OptiKinetics Solar projectors but much heavier and way more dangerous. That's where it takes me anyway. Speaking of laminar and lights, I am looking at my lightspace and it might not be so straightforward, but we will see with the final product.

Got the reflectix installed last night and test-fit the E&F table... If my cab was 5" taller I'd use it, but having it in there limits my plants to 13"/33cm and that just isn't good enough. I guess my math was off. No table will give me 20"... That actually may be too much room? Last round the plants could have been higher, but they were also stunted.

So hempy cups. They worked last time (with some personal problems). Might do 100% perlite (the bigger stuff, not this annoying finer stuff) as the perlite cups had happier rootmasses. I want to try coco but I HATE HATE HATE PESTS. I run a very clean home and have heard LOTS of horror stories about unclean coco and pests.
I now plan on experimenting with bigger containers (1/2 gal or even up to 1 gal) and thinking about 2 plants per pot, of the same strain. I have this going on with peppers and they are fine (wasn't there a thread on this?). Or maybe just less, bigger plants. Experiments abound if I'm using the whole cab floor.

Note to self: Have to remember to feed slowly in hempys and keep the ec BELOW full feeding. Either that or flush once a week (nah). I had some definite salt buildup this last round that threw lots out of whack.

Ok well that is enough note-taking for today I will come back here tonight with some pictures. For now I'm gonna go see how many of what size containers I can put on the cab floor.

 

[Helis]

So I have decided to withhold photos of the cab in progress... Probably just leave it all to a construction post.

But I am not going to leave everyone empty handed

So here is the reveg room.
The whole right side are sativa bagseed in different phenos, the two plants in the back are from the 12/12-from-seed experiment, the amber container is the Zyrtec, and then in front is magic bus and the long tall stick with not enough bud on it is the purple spear pheno. Magic Bus and the purple spear are the only ones who have not shown reveg growth... I don't expect it of the spear but I am PRAYING for Magic Bus, the smoke was amazing (but I have learned


Here is the Magic Bus up for reveg


And here is some funky reveg growth. No nutes yet. Lots of preflowers everywhere. Strange place.



Since this thread is about learning (for me at least) and since I don't keep anything on the computer anymore (will get a new USB key at some point), here are what I have come up with as "plans". This sort of thing is good for me and the way I think

1) 3-5 seeds (depending on how many strains) will be germinated
2) Once sprouted, plants will be veg'd under 110w of PLL. Anything with significant reveg growth will be put in as well. Medium will be hton or hton/perlite for now.
3) Top all plants at 4-5 nodes tall and clone tops.
4) Veg plants should hit 0.6-0.7 EC at around 1 month.
5) When clones have rooted, all veg plants will be put in veg side of cab. Should have healthy growth by now.
6) Rooted clones will be put into 12/12 and sexed. Males will be observed, briefly, then culled. The Dads of best "stock" (vigor, smell, stature) will moved to Dad cab.
7) Take cuttings from new moms & reveg'd moms as soon as possible, put in 12/12.
8) Take new mom cuts from reveg plants, once clones have rooted & have growth, feel free to flower reveg moms.
9) Once 2-3 cycles are flowered, pick personal choice phenos from new plants and either dump, flower, or clone out remaining moms, then start another seed selection run (if new genetics are available).
10) Veg 0.5-0.6 EC, flower 0.9-1.0 EC for hempy + "low intensity light"

Experiments:
- 18oz beer cups, 20/22oz bottles, 32 oz cups, 32oz mixing cups, 64oz rectangular bottles. These are all AFTER first round of clones from moms in 20oz cups.
- Veg between 2"-10" with clones
- 2 clones in one cup (>32oz) and 3 clones in one "trough" (>64oz)
- 100% perlite, 100% hton, turface, Coco (eventually) and mixes of above

Either way should have something every 1.5-3 weeks depending on when I fill it. Time to first clone in should be 3-4 weeks from seed.

Now if only I had done it this way last time

That's it for tonight

Helis

 

[#1cheesebuds]

wsup Helis. I see ur trying to re-veg ur plants. well comming from someone that has re-veged plants 4-5 times over the past 7-8 years or so. and I had a great outcome. they even grew more and better buds too.

1 thing to rember is that it takes some time to get a plant to re-veg good.
well for thats how it has alwase worked for me.
also my plants looked alot like ure when I would re-veg them and they usuly came out just fine.

U can see them in my latest grow thread. the one that with all my ladies.

Well I wish u have good luck with re-veging ur ladies.

 

[Helis]

Hi Cheeeesebuds, thank you for stopping in
It is nice to hear that you have had such good results with reveg. I have done everything advised and most plants are doing fine. I just have to be patient.
I will pop in to your thread and see how things are

Joey Weed C99 x A11 and Cannacopia Chunky Chocolate seeds came in today :yay::yay::yay: Very nice shipping, I would call it crush proof but I wouldn't call it too stealthy. Still, they are in my hands and in a happy home
So I have 10 of each of those and the mystery 5 pack I found a few days ago.

Tomorrow I will germinate* (up to last minute change)
4x C99xA11
4x Chunky Chocolate
4x Recently Discovered Random Seeds
In coco pucks, pre-soaked with .4-.6 EC nutrients. I will also be building a veg tent this week. I decided until I thin down on numbers (gonna have to kill of some reveg plants) I will need new space. Also will let me do my work to the cab & not worry about plants.
My other option is to run a higher number of just one strain? And find keeper moms and dads from those. Hrm...

But that is tomorrow, tonight is a very happy and very stoned sleep
I am excited to be growing again

Helis

 

[Helis]

Tuesday night I germinated 5 C99xA11 beans and 3 of the "BlueBalls" blue bag seed.
3 1/2 days later I am seeing the seeds crack open and start reaching out. I see people do this in 24 hours often but my last attempt took me just as long (almost 5 days, but just a little too long).
Tonight or tomorrow morning they will be put in pretreated coco pucks, and I'll see what sort of germination rate I've had. The Joey Weed seeds seem very hearty with thick hulls and it seems like the seeds have been trying to crack for a day plus, so I'm glad to see taps coming out today.

That is all for now... I will update when I have seedlings

 

[Helis]

new beginning

new beginning


So the out of the 5 C99xA11 beans I soaked, 3 germinated, the other 2 did nothing. I am redrying them and will try at a later date. The 3 "Bluebag" seeds did nothing, and were thrown out. There are 2 more for a later date.
Out of the three that germinated only 2 made it out of the coco pucks - which I apparently soaked at too strong a nutrient mix. Last time I had no problem with germination.. something like 22/23 beans.
I attribute problems to the fact that it is colder and drier here.

As you can see these seedlings that did make it out are a bit stunted and burned, but they aren't as leggy as the seedlings in my last round, thankfully.

Also I am lucky that I have been gifted some OG Kush and MK Ultra seeds, so some time this coming week I will germinate 3 of one of them, 2 more C99xA11 and 3 DCxChocolateTrip, in the hopes of having better luck this time. A heatmat will be used in a dome and coco pucks will be untreated.

Here is the reveg room

It doesn't look like Magic Bus is going to make it
But some other plants have enough vegitation to take small cuttings
I am in the process of putting a 78w PC case so some will be taken when it is done and that will be a 64oz coco scrog or lst in ~1 sq. ft.
But that's another thread entirely

So it's slow here but I can't let that get to me.

Cheers!

Helis

 

[Helis]

Hello all!
I am back

The last round of grow went OK but I did not take pictures. Too busy to do more than maintain the grow and keep it going. I harvested two "semi-perpetual" rounds and then had to stop. Read on...

The revegging plants went so-so. Lots did no produce what I needed. So those were out quick.

The round of seeds I started went alright and I had one very nice lil A11xC99 mum for a few months. Unfortunately I had to shut down my cab for a while due to work (I was working FAR away from home and also was being spot tested for my job... not fun). It was nice to have a personal stash and second round I gained much respect for the KISS rule. I put too much thought into how things were going first time around and it bit me in the butt.

So now, again...
Last month I started vegging the last of my A11xC99, some FM Chemberry, and some Chocolate Chunk. While I am tidying my growcab (and my personal belongings) I am simplifying things. I intend to take clones this coming week from each of the veg plants and sex them over the next couple weeks.
The veg plants are currently in my closet under CFLs while my cab gets reinvented

The flower side will be on (the current) 3x55w of PL-Ls, and I will make a small aero box for the floor. SuperPedro's grows have been theory-altering and I will likely be doing a-batch-at-a-time like he has been, and keeping moms for the next round. IMO perpetual was fun, but the upkeep and tracking of multiple tiers of feeding/harvesting etc. were too much for my life.

Veg side may not be used. If it is, mums might be in Hempy cups - though these became a large pain in the ass while working. They needed to be fed too often (often daily) sometimes messy - so once these plants are sexed, I am thinking throwing out the males and probably moving cuttings of the fems to a DWC unit.

I look forward to poking around ICM again and sharing with you all. I would start another thread, but let's keep the mess going in here, why not?
Then again, this is no longer a 272w CFL cab, and the price has gone down, in theory. So maybe a new thread is on the way, say, once clones are rooting
Pictures in 2 weeks or so, I am needing a new camera.

 

[Tilt]

welcome back I just read through your thread. Neat stuff goin on in here

 

[Helis]

Thanks Tilt, I just read through YOUR whole thread! Awesome stuff and some skills for sure!

 

[Helis]

Just took cuttings from 6 of the 9 vegging plants. I would have taken more, but my aero unit really doesn't hold enough for how big it is.

 

[tonybanks420]

Helis, how is your E&F addition to the box going to function? I am interested doing a drain fill NGB style box as well. It will not be as functional as yours though.
your ninja box has shurikans, drying chamber, and all