Military spraying "Chaff" Over NorCal

[illKills]

The answers to a lot of the arguments here are answered in the documentary "What In The World Are They Spraying?" It just came out in the last couple of months and is very enlightening, everyone interested in the subject should go check it out, IMO.

...And did I hear soft pretzels used in the same sentence as BJs?!? ... Careful.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

The answers to a lot of the arguments here are answered in the documentary "What In The World Are They Spraying?" It just came out in the last couple of months and is very enlightening, everyone interested in the subject should go check it out, IMO.

...And did I hear soft pretzels used in the same sentence as BJs?!? ... Careful.

Already addressed earlier in the thread... in a debunking manner.

The documentary film “What in the World are They Spraying“, by Michael J. Murphy, attempts to promote the Chemtrail Conspiracy Theory (which states that long lasting contrails are actually the result of secret government spray operations), and proposes a possible explanation: that the trails part of a geoengineering project involving injecting large amounts of aluminum into the atmosphere to block the suns rays.

The basic premise of the film is:
Normal Contrails fade away quickly
Scientists have talked about geoengineering using aluminum sprayed from planes
Since 1999, trails have been observed to persist for a long time
Tests in various locations at ground level have found different levels of aluminum
Monsanto has genetically engineered aluminum resistent crops
The government denies any spraying or geoengineering is going on
THEREFORE: The trails are aluminum being sprayed as part of a secret government geoengineering project.
Normal contrails can persist and spread

That reasoning is somewhat suspect even if you accept all the points. But where it really falls down is that it’s based on a false assumption – that “normal” contrails quickly fade away. In reality, normal contrails can persist for hours, and spread out to cover the sky. Whether they do this or not is entirely dependent on the atmospheric conditions that the plane is flying through, so it depends on the weather, and on the altitude of the plane. This is something that has been observed since 1921. Just look at any book on the weather, like this one from 1981:

The aluminum tests are scientifically unsound

So the film is based on a false premise, and builds upon it to an inevitable false conclusion. But what about the aluminum tests? You can find the tests referenced in the film here:

http://contrailscience.com/files/chemtrails_basic_lab_report.pdf

The first aluminum result is from the pond, discussed at the start of part 3, and it’s 375,000 ug/l. What they don’t mention is that it’s from pond sediment, sludge. So essentially it’s not testing water, but is instead testing the amount of aluminum in soil. So that’s 375 mg/kg for sediment that has settled in a pond over several years. That’s actually quite low. Aluminum concentration in soil ranges from 0.07% to 10%, but is typically 7.1%, or 71,000 mg/kg. The amount of aluminum found in the sludge is quite easily explained by windblown dust. It’s low, probably because it’s a new pond, so a lot of the sediment is vegetable matter.

Then there are the rain readings. 33, 262, 650, 188, 525, 881, 84, 815, 3450, 2190 ug/L. Wildly different values, some high sounding, some low. But no details are provided that correlate these different numbers of contrail activity. If this variation were due to aerial spraying, then surely a match would be found. These numbers simply tell us that different tests produced different results. It does not tell us why. No details of the sampling procedure are given, or the weather conditions preceding the test. Nor are we told what are the expected levels of aluminum to be found under these conditions.

Rain water contains particulates from airborne dust. The amount of particulates will vary greatly based on the weather. A sample from a brief intense storm after a dry period would give you more particulates than a sample taken in the middle of several days of rain. The amount of particulates in the sample would also vary with how long the container is left out in the open. Dust will settle on the container if it’s left out for a while, increasing the amount of aluminum found. All these tests are really telling us is how much dust the sample was contaminated with.

How much aluminum is there in the dust? Let’s say it’s about the ame as the amount of aluminum in soil (although it’s probably higher). How much dust is there in rain? According of Edward Elway Free of the the United State Bureau of Soils, in his book “The Movement of Soil Material by the Wind“, in tests performed by Tissandier, rain water contained 25,000 to 172,000 ug/L of particulates. But he notes “As the amounts of rain and snow which fell in the various cases are not given, the figures are of little value. The first drops of a rain storm will of course contain the largest percentage of dust, and as the storm continues the air is gradually wasted clean.”. Still if only 1% of the lowest figures there were aluminum, then that’s still 250 ug/L. And at a quite plausible 10% of the upper range, that’s 17,200 ug/L. A range that easily covers the observed test results.

The soil tests are where a typical mistake is made – conflating the percentage of the metal in one substance (soil) with the typical percentages in others. As noted, soil aluminum naturally ranges from 0.07% to 10%, and is typically around 7.1%, which is 71,000 mg/kg. The tests from Oregon (see sheet 16 in the pdf) list quite ordinary results for soil of 18,600 to 38,000. But then they note the results are “Tens of thousands of times the maximun limit for water“, which is true, but they are not testing water, they are testing soil, and it less than half the normal value for soil.

They continue this on the next page, with a low soil aluminum value of 10,500 mg/kg (just 1% aluminum), and yet note: “Near playground Sisson Elementary 300‘ away”. As if this is somehow dangerous to children. It’s just normal soil, as found in any playground, anywhere, ever.

Aluminum is everywhere, in various quantities

Aluminum is the most abundant metallic element in the earth’s crust, about 8% of the ground is aluminum.

Aluminum is everywhere, in the food we eat, and the air we breath (as dust)

Aluminum is in daily contact with us, in soda cans, cookware, aluminum cooking foil, construction, transportation, baseball bats, etc.

The amount of aluminum in any location varies naturally. In some places there is a lot, in others there is very little.

Contamination of samples with aluminum is very common due to it’s abundance and common usage. Unless careful control samples are taken, then the results are often wildly inaccurate.
One of the tests in the film was water collected by a schoolgirl in a mason jar. Mason jars often have aluminum lids
Another was taken from a ski area snow pack in early summer. Skis, ski grooming equipment, and ski towers use aluminum.
Aluminum resistent crops have been a goal for 100 years

And knowing that aluminum is very common will also answer why Monsanto would want to develop aluminum resistent crops. It will increase yields in areas of high aluminum soil content. Given the ubiquitous presence of aluminum in the ground, and the fact that aluminum levels have been a known problem for a hundred years , it’s hardly surprising that someone would try to make crops have a higher resistance to it.

Discussing ≠ Doing

Finally, what of the government discussions of geoengineering, and their denials that anything is going on? Exactly. What of it? They discuss geoengineering because it’s something that people might actually want to do in the future, so we’d better talk about it now, so we can figure out what problems might occur. The concerns about health effects and effects on the environment are perfectly valid concerns, but they are not evidence that a spraying program is currently underway.

And the most reasonable explanation for why they deny they are doing it because they are not actually doing it. The congressmen interviewed in the film claim they they are not familiar with it because they are not familiar with it. They don’t want to talk about it because they don’t know anything about it. There’s nothing sinister going on there. The congressmen are simply not familiar with this one particular theoretical geoengineering method (or probably any theoretical geoengineering method), so when they are buttonholed by someone who rather intensely asks them if they approve of it, then it’s quite understandable they don’t want to talk to him.

The film presents the conferences on geoengineering as if they are somehow secret and clandestine operations that need to be revealed to the public. In reality geoengineering of this type has been discussed for at least sixty years. It’s hardly covered up, as the discussion has been constantly in the news, often front page news, since 2006, and has been making occasional mainstream news stories since the 1980s, with thousands of publicly accessible research papers over the last sixty years. Nobody was doing it sixty years ago, nobody was doing it in 2006, and as far as anyone can tell, nobody is doing it now. Denials are not admissions, and discussing something is not the same as doing it.

Contrails...

The International Space Station crew sees them all the time, except when airplanes are not flying, as happened in the days after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks. Here is the report from www.space.com from September 14th, 2001:

"Three days after suicide airplane hijackers toppled the World Trade Center in New York and slammed into the Pentagon in Washington, D.C., the station crew noted an obvious absence of airborne jetliners from their perch 240 miles (384 kilometers) above Earth. 'I’ll tell you one thing that’s really strange: Normally when we go over the U.S., the sky is like a spider web of contrails,' U.S. astronaut and outpost commander Frank Culbertson told flight controllers at NASA’s Mission Control Center in Houston. 'And now the sky is just about completely empty. There are no contrails in the sky,' he added. 'It’s very, very weird.' 'I hadn’t thought of that perspective,' fellow astronaut Cady Coleman replied."

If there is a giant conspiracy to spray chemicals from the sky, chances are good that Professor John Day is not a part of it. The author of six books on meteorology, Day is a world-renowned expert on clouds, a professor emeritus at Linfield College and a regular contributor to the McMinnville News-Register, ... When he hears the word 'chemtrail,' however, Day's frosty mustache droops, and his sky-blue eyes darken. 'I don't happen to warm up to that phenomenon,' he sighs. Despite his reluctance to be drawn into the controversy, Day graciously agreed to examine photographs of chemtrails to see if he spotted anything unusual. 'This is a perfectly normal situation with cirrocumulus cloud and a single spreading contrail,' he declared after inspecting one photo for a full minute. Then he flipped to the next. 'Nothing weird about that. Cirrostratus cloud...' And the next. 'The criss-cross pattern is a consequence of planes flying criss-cross patterns....' And the next. 'I've seen many situations like this one....' Contrail formation, Day explained, depends on the relative humidity of the atmosphere-- he ratio of what is to what could be at a particular temperature. When relative humidity is low, contrails dissipate within seconds. But when relative humidity is high, especially at the subzero temperatures of the upper atmosphere, the addition of even a tiny amount of water vapor acts as a catalyst. Under these conditions, contrails may linger and spread to cover the whole sky. ...At length, Day extracted from his bookshelf a well-thumbed edition of Peterson's Field Guide to Clouds and Weather, which he co-authored in 1991 (a good 10 years before chemtrails became widely discussed), turned to the section on contrails, and pointed to a photograph of a thick, white plume--a plume that looked for all the world like a chemtrail...

 

[mdk ktm]

So Bill Gates is planning to monopolize the agriculture trade with the help of the government? Seriously, that's your explanation dude? Jesus tapdancing Christ, I give up...

nevermind the fact that the guy is worth more than most people in the world (and he's got some stiff competition), or the fact that he already has given away billions and now has pledged to give away $60 billion to people in need......clearly this is a guy out for money at ANY COST!!!

Ok because that's not even my theory? When I didn't have a clue about the subject before he was telling me about it. All I have said was things that somebody I know told me. He spent a good amount of time researching the shit so I don't know.... Didnt ask him to cite his fuckin sources while we were insulating a damn shop.

We were just talking while we worked basically so maybe he didn't say bill gates I don't know. And I really don't care, I saw the thread, and I has a couple pennies to toss in. Something interesting to talk about. Nothing I have said was my thoughts, besides seeing what appeared to be a "chemtrail".

Did you watch "what in the world are they spraying"?

"jesuschrist, that's your explanation dude"

 

[Lone Wolf]

sorry - my wife ruined this thread while she snooped on my mac when i stepped out...

 

[BrainSellz]

sorry - my wife ruined this thread while she snooped on my mac when i stepped out...

how were the pretzels

 

[mean mr.mustard]

 

[Stoner4Life]

here's my .02 & may have been referenced already, the higher the altitude the colder the air, all air contains a certain % of moisture (humidity) which of course varies. jets engine suck in HUGE amounts of air and then 'cook' it producing exhaust temps from 1400F ~ 1900F. vapor trails = steam.


EDIT:
that 'steam' may very well contain amounts of unburned & post burned fuel emissions just like a cars exhaust but we should all know that's likely I'm sure. maybe slightly concentrated while in the vapor trail form it will mingle into our atmosphere like any other exhaust emission over time.


any of you junior scientists that want to know what's in those vapor trails can outfit a weather balloon to capture samples somehow, otherwise drive yourselves bonkers listening to the conspiracy theorists spout their drivel.......

 

[sac beh]

any of you junior scientists that want to know what's in those vapor trails can outfit a weather balloon to capture samples somehow

I wouldn't recommend this for people inclined to believe anomalous objects in the sky are part of extraterrestrial or government conspiracies, they might just forget they launched the balloon and come on here to post their UFO sighting stories...

 

[Fo20Blazerrr]

here's my .02 & may have been referenced already, the higher the altitude the colder the air, all air contains a certain % of moisture (humidity) which of course varies. jets engine suck in HUGE amounts of air and then 'cook' it producing exhaust temps from 1400F ~ 1900F. vapor trails = steam.


EDIT:
that 'steam' may very well contain amounts of unburned & post burned fuel emissions just like a cars exhaust but we should all know that's likely I'm sure. maybe slightly concentrated while in the vapor trail form it will mingle into our atmosphere like any other exhaust emission over time.


any of you junior scientists that want to know what's in those vapor trails can outfit a weather balloon to capture samples somehow, otherwise drive yourselves bonkers listening to the conspiracy theorists spout their drivel.......

QFT!


FO20.

 

[TxMatt]

I wouldn't recommend this for people inclined to believe anomalous objects in the sky are part of extraterrestrial or government conspiracies, they might just forget they launched the balloon and come on here to post their UFO sighting stories...

So, you would be speaking of the meteorologist that announced that the military was spraying it on national tv? Oh, wait, he must be a conspiracy theorists, that can't be true! the government would never spray anything in the air that could harm us, right?

 

[johnnyla]

chinese seed clouds what does the us govt do?

 

[TxMatt]

chinese seed clouds what does the us govt do?

check out that patent list on page 2 or 3. that will give you an idea.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

lmao

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

with all the meteorologist in the US there's bound to be a couple of nutjobs...

 

[Green lung]

with all the meteorologist in the US there's bound to be a couple of nutjobs...

I don't even know but How much do wanna bet that it was a "weatherman" lol

 

[TxMatt]

with all the meteorologist in the US there's bound to be a couple of nutjobs...

What about all those patents. im sure those never get used, right?
Whats your view on those?

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

What about all those patents. im sure those never get used, right?
Whats your view on those?

that they almost never get used

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

occam's razor and all....

 

[TxMatt]

Very often the simplest explanation is not the correct one.

 

[TxMatt]

In the scientific method, Occam's razor is not considered an irrefutable principle of logic, and certainly not a scientific result --Wiki