Are you flying anymore?

[SpasticGramps]

I said I'd rather be scanned than blow up in a fireball and asked if anyone had better ideas?

What else are you ready to do to stay "safe?" What's the next step? Are you cool with the Patriot Act. That keeps us "safe" right?

What about torturing people. That will help keep us safe from the bad men?

How about this. Stop the f'ing illegal wars. Shut down the military industrial complex. What if we as a country stop terrorizing everyone else in the world so they don't hate us? But you see....there is no money in that for our rulers. Much more money in keeping you scared and killing everyone else until they want to kill us.

Where the f' are the hippies out protesting now??? We are still at war killing all the brown people, but for some reason you don't see any hippies protesting? NOTHING HAS CHANGED, but all of a sudden it's like someone hit the mute button. Ya know. It wasn't the mute button. It was the OBEY button.

Never mind. You're right. I'm paranoid to you and your brainwashed to me. It's cool. Let's all just submit and obey.

 

[InvisibleEmpire]

I'm surprised people let this stuff control them. I'll be damned if I'm wasting any of my life with these conspiracy theories on who did what. I wouldn't waste one minute reading or watching any of that slop. It's been almost ten years and people are still obsessed by this stuff.

Why waste any thought on it whatsoever? It is what it is.....

Listen. Years back many, MANY people including veterans pushed the "conspiracy theory" idea that our involvement in vietnam was staged, a false flag if you will. Nobody believed them and called them nutjobs because the tensions were high due to so many soldiers being killed...

..anyway, 2005 NSA releases a report in which they state, on the record, that they knew they were not fired upon and the submariner was hearing the propeller beat, not enemy torpedos. the entire war was based on a lie, and this is a prime example of why it is GOOD to keep a COMPLETELY OPEN mind, not a "i'll listen to other theories, only if they fit my standards"...you have to be open to everything out there...ALL theories, both fake and real, stupid and intelligent, etc. it is very easy to skim through the obvious trolls and fake conspiracies, but there are too many reasons to name (cannabis prohibition as one) to show that the government does not care about truth, they care about money.

anyway, you consider educating yourself "wasting your time"? honestly, you posting on ICMAG is more of a waste of your time than reading up and learning about things and formulating your own opinions rather than what mainstream media and mainstream society push on you...i'm not judging you, i'm judging what you said...

you say "Why waste any thought on it whatsoever? It is what it is....."

this thought process is why we are, where we are. apathy. THINKING about these issues is how we formulate better ideas, based on logic and truth and not on fake propaganda, fear and cavemen in turbans...i'm sorry i'm completely opposite from you and i think that anyone who is a citizen of the USA and/or other oppressive places should educate themselves on the truths of things as it WILL shape who you are and all that you are... i mean some of the stuff isn't even a theory anymore, theories infer there is no substantial evidence to support it...once there is...it's simply a conspiracy...gulf of tonkin incident as another prime example.

spastic posted this awhile back and i feel the need to reiterate how accurate it is:

"How about this. Stop the f'ing illegal wars. Shut down the military industrial complex. What if we as a country stop terrorizing everyone else in the world so they don't hate us? But you see....there is no money in that for our rulers. Much more money in keeping you scared and killing everyone else until they want to kill us.

Where the f' are the hippies out protesting now??? We are still at war killing all the brown people, but for some reason you don't see any hippies protesting? NOTHING HAS CHANGED, but all of a sudden it's like someone hit the mute button. Ya know. It wasn't the mute button. It was the OBEY button.

you said it best my friend.

JJ, there are nuts or people who have mental issues in which when they take a concept, conspiracy or otherwise they can always blow it out of proportion...in other words...you take a paranoid schizophrenic and give him the internet there will obviously be some 'overblowing of the issues' regardless if they are real or not...this is what the establishment relies on - that the general perception of anyone who listens to and/or considers the facts in conspiracy theories is a nut job, paranoid schizophrenic, etc.

the term 'whistleblower' simply references someone who knows of a conspiracy and calls the wolves (police) to raid the party...

 

[InvisibleEmpire]

I haven't. I hadn't heard of him till now. I just briefly checked him out. I'm going to watch his movie. American: Freedom to Fascism right now though and the interview latter.

I actually haven't seen freedom to fascism yet but the interview i have, be warned...i don't want to talk shit on the guy being he's dead now but he talks a LOT and re-iterates stuff a lot as well...it's a good 30-45 minutes of solid info but the interview is much longer...so when you start to hear him repeat himself, just buzz ahead a bit. brief idea is alex jones interviews him regarding his friendship with nick rockefeller i believe and how he warned aaron months in advance that the invasion of afghanistan and iraq was going to occur, and there would be an 'event'...never told him what but alas 9/11 occurred...he also said the rockefellers were pushing hard for a currency crisis so they could welcome in digital money and/or digital money system with RFID chips...not far fetched as the idea has been floated, the technology exists and has been created and people have received similar implants already...

 

[jd4083]

I really have to say...for all your fearmongering, you do formulate a damned fine argument InvisibleEmpire.

 

[coconutree]

If you examine al the facts, like invisible.epire has done, you would only come to the same conclusions as him.

aaron russo was a good friend of rockefeller and theres documentarys and possibly youtube clips with russo saying ... well what empire has explained in more depth than me

9/11 was a job done from "within" who and how exactly, no-one knows, but there is a paper trail, and the head of the ISI was sacked because he wire transfered money to a high ranking "al queda" official, who then transferred the money he had got from the ISI chief, to mohammad atta, the "brains" behind the outfit who flew the planes on 9/11.

The ISI is the pakistani FBI - this very guy was in WASHINGTON HAVING DINNER WITH A HIGH RANKING US GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL ON THE DAY OF 9/11

there is so far no proof, but there is so much circumstantial evidence that it was an inside job.

if you examine the facts, not listen to generalisations without substance on the news, everyone would believe it was an inside job.

 

[JJScorpio]

Let's get something straight. I've been against all these wars from day one. But I have a son and a son in law that have both been deployed on numerous occasions. I feel the pain wondering what tommorrow will bring. They chose it for a career and if you think I'd shit on either of them you're wrong.

I do my fair share of illegal things and the Patriot Act doesn't bother me a bit. I'm not dumb enough to sit on my phone discussing shit. Do I agree with it. No. Am I going to sit around and let it control me? Not a prayer. About as much as I'm going to let these conspiracy stories control my thoughts or my actions. I'll start worrying when I actually see growers or normal people arrested because of it....

Now, you're onto something with the torture. Bring me the bastards that hurt innocent people and I'll make Guantanamo look like a playground.....

If you're really so obsessed with this crap, do something about it. Why sit and talk about it on a pot site where 99 percent of the people could care less? Go door to door. Make signs in front of your house. That's just what the Government wants you to do. They want you to make people afraid. That's when people make mistakes. So you see, while you think you're fighting back, all you're really doing is doing just what good old Uncle Sam wants you to do. Keep spreading their propaganda. Keep making people afraid. They need more people like you doing this. While the rest of us just live our lives and ignore their crap.....


Now that we've all had our say, lets get back to the original topic.....

What else are you ready to do to stay "safe?" What's the next step? Are you cool with the Patriot Act. That keeps us "safe" right?

What about torturing people. That will help keep us safe from the bad men?

How about this. Stop the f'ing illegal wars. Shut down the military industrial complex. What if we as a country stop terrorizing everyone else in the world so they don't hate us? But you see....there is no money in that for our rulers. Much more money in keeping you scared and killing everyone else until they want to kill us.

Where the f' are the hippies out protesting now??? We are still at war killing all the brown people, but for some reason you don't see any hippies protesting? NOTHING HAS CHANGED, but all of a sudden it's like someone hit the mute button. Ya know. It wasn't the mute button. It was the OBEY button.

Never mind. You're right. I'm paranoid to you and your brainwashed to me. It's cool. Let's all just submit and obey.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Where the f' are the hippies out protesting now??? We are still at war killing all the brown people, but for some reason you don't see any hippies protesting? NOTHING HAS CHANGED, but all of a sudden it's like someone hit the mute button. Ya know. It wasn't the mute button. It was the OBEY button.

Never mind. You're right. I'm paranoid to you and your brainwashed to me. It's cool. Let's all just submit and obey.

The Kent State murders kind of scared people back in to obedience.

Like clockwork.

I don't want to open my mouth to get it blown off... incredibly effective.

 

[SpasticGramps]

While the rest of us just live our lives and ignore their crap.....

They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

Apathy is the fuel that feeds the rise of tyranny. To think it won't effect you in the future is to be naive to the history of tyrannical states.

BTW, I do go to meetings and talk with people in real life. I'm active in my rebellion. I also went to USMA (west point). I have friends who will be leading your sons into battle. I have some close friends who are no longer with us. I was a major supporter of the wars and everything that came with them, until I found out what they were really about. No one deserves to die for banker's greed. I'll be damned if I'm going to sit around and ignore it.

As General Butler said. "War is a Racket" and today's war on terrorism and these pat downs and naked body scanners are a racket.

To the topic. If I have to fly. I'll fly. If I can avoid it I will.

 

[Ben Tokin]

The phrases "government" and "Uncle Sam" are used often to identify the source of oppression and control. Who exactly is this entity? The government is the people of the USofA, but who really makes the policy decisions in a given nation?

Let's expose the truth. What we refer to as the "government" or "Uncle Sam" is not the majority of the people at all. It's actually a tiny few connected and wealthy individuals who get together and make their decisions. Their plans are not in the best interests of the citizens of the nation.

These few individuals are more interested in keeping and growing their wealth, power and control over the electorate. They could care less how anyone thinks about their policies they dictate and enforce. All they care about is that no one will understand what is really going on and who they really are.

Democracy? Bullshit!

People cannot think for themselves when all they see are lies and distorted facts. The news cycle, forced poverty and suppression of human rights by our police forces serve only to instill fear and ignorance as we blindly support our oppressors.

 

[JJScorpio]

And these are the few people that start spreading things such as the Patriot Act knowing certain people will spread propaganda throughout the masses leading to people conforming due to fear.

When you walk into a store and you see a camera it prevents you from stealing. But is the camera real, or is it a dummy to instill fear into a person? Either way, it serves it's purpose.

Now lets go to the Patriot Act. How many normal Americans do you know that have been arrested because of it? My answer is none. But how many people changed their lives based on the propaganda people spread regarding it? Millions. And when people such as here continue to spread it under the assumption it's something for you to fear, others will continue to fear. And then they spead it. And others conform. When in truth there is very little evidence to support that we have anything to fear from it.

So who is really the Governments friend here? The ones doing what the Government is hoping they do. Spreading fear and propaganda.

Put up a fake camera, people won't steal. Spread propaganda, people conform. The answer. Just live your life.

The phrases "government" and "Uncle Sam" are used often to identify the source of oppression and control. Who exactly is this entity? The government is the people of the USofA, but who really makes the policy decisions in a given nation?

Let's expose the truth. What we refer to as the "government" or "Uncle Sam" is not the majority of the people at all. It's actually a tiny few connected and wealthy individuals who get together and make their decisions. Their plans are not in the best interests of the citizens of the nation.

These few individuals are more interested in keeping and growing their wealth, power and control over the electorate. They could care less how anyone thinks about their policies they dictate and enforce. All they care about is that no one will understand what is really going on and who they really are.

Democracy? Bullshit!

People cannot think for themselves when all they see are lies and distorted facts. The news cycle, forced poverty and suppression of human rights by our police forces serve only to instill fear and ignorance as we blindly support our oppressors.

 

[ROJO145]

Put up a fake camera, people won't steal. Spread propaganda, people conform. The answer. Just live your life.

Not True JJ,Walmarts biggest loss is still theft,cameras dont deter,magnetic strips dont deter,a thief will steal,period!As far as propoganda,look what all the years of mj propoganda have done.Is hard to live your life when our liberties keep getting takin and infringed.Do ya really think all the shit goin on in the world is "consiracy" nuts?Really?Our 4th ammendmant has been takin away completly by the TSA,no conspiracy there.Pretty much everything Gramps says is gossipal,you know Factual.....the trouble is its to easy to call people like him nuts and consprators....Its hard to look at the actual truth of things,easier to sit on ya couch drink a pepsi and call everyone else nuts.

 

[Ben Tokin]

Here's a question, how many of you have ever seen a bill being written up in the House of Representatives or the Senate? Do you think that your elected officials sit down and write them up? Why don't you ever see this procedure occur? And, now we know that our elected officials don't even fucking read them!

Special interest groups, AKA, wealthy business owners and small groups of wealthy investors dictate the laws of this nation. Our elected representatives are just paid off servants of corruption and blackmail. Anyone attempting to foil the schemes of these thugs will tempt fate. Anything that can destroy a renegade politician will be dredged up and splashed across the media. And there is also the casual threat of bodily harm to friends and relatives.

It's a tried and true method of keeping the troops in line and marching to the music of big money and organized crime.

So who are the real power brokers behind the political parties? Do I really have to answer that question?

This whole issue is straight in line with magic bullet theories, energy shortages, global warming, flu epidemics, security scares, water shortages, drug prohibition and housing bubbles.

We present the information, you decide.

 

[JJScorpio]

I think cameras due deter stealing for some people. But there's always ones that chance getting away with it.....

I'm not saying our 4th amendment rights and others aren't being taken from us with different "exceptions". That's been going on for decades.

But how many people are actually having their phones tapped under the Patriot Act and getting arrested for growing? There could be some. But by taking normal precautions, such as not discussing these things on a phone will protect you. But how many people do you think have been scared off from growing based on rumors associated with the Patriot Act? My money says many, many more than have actually been arrested.

The Government has been using propaganda spread by citizens to control the masses for decades. Everything from spreading misinformation regarding Cannabis, to terrorism to the Patriot Act. And people buy it. And people need to understand this. And if people would preach "they are full of shit", stories as much as they spread fear the control would be much less.

Now, when someone starts stopping me and searching me on the streets or entering my home legally without a warrant I'm going to become pissed. But I've lived this life for a couple generations and most of the crap people spread is bullshit that does nothing but make people fearful so they are controlled easier..... And I'm not buying into any of that propaganda nor am I going to spread fear which will cause people to conform without proof, which I have seen very little of.

So maybe instead of calling people nuts we should call them Governmental enablers. Because the more they preach this stuff the more people are changing their lifestyles in fear of the unknown......

 

[InvisibleEmpire]

I think cameras due deter stealing for some people. But there's always ones that chance getting away with it.....

I'm not saying our 4th amendment rights and others aren't being taken from us with different "exceptions". That's been going on for decades.

But how many people are actually having their phones tapped under the Patriot Act and getting arrested for growing? There could be some. But by taking normal precautions, such as not discussing these things on a phone will protect you. But how many people do you think have been scared off from growing based on rumors associated with the Patriot Act? My money says many, many more than have actually been arrested.

The Government has been using propaganda spread by citizens to control the masses for decades. Everything from spreading misinformation regarding Cannabis, to terrorism to the Patriot Act. And people buy it. And people need to understand this. And if people would preach "they are full of shit", stories as much as they spread fear the control would be much less.

Now, when someone starts stopping me and searching me on the streets or entering my home legally without a warrant I'm going to become pissed. But I've lived this life for a couple generations and most of the crap people spread is bullshit that does nothing but make people fearful so they are controlled easier..... And I'm not buying into any of that propaganda nor am I going to spread fear which will cause people to conform without proof, which I have seen very little of.

So maybe instead of calling people nuts we should call them Governmental enablers. Because the more they preach this stuff the more people are changing their lifestyles in fear of the unknown......

You and I are very different my friend, apathy comes easy to you and you feel that as long as something "serves its purpose", regardless of the way it is implemented it is necessary.

that's the point...millions of americans don't believe the official 9/11 story which is why these security measures are taking place...without 9/11 there would be no security because there would be no 'threat'...the problem is that 'threat' was created, that 'threat' was manufactured and to be quite honest i suggest you watch movies like Loose Change in which is breaks down every single 'fact' about 9/11 which includes the fact that multiple "hijackers" stood up after 9/11 saying no, i'm still alive and i'm not a terrorist...passports magically flying down in the debris, not a scratch, for an FBI agent to pick up and say "Oh, here's a passport of da terrorist!"...please.

if you don't believe the story because of evidence it null and voids any measures the establishment has taken (patriot act, patriot act 2, airport security, backscatter xray, etc.)...also, even IF....even IF cavemen in turbans somehow made NORAD stand down and executed a perfect terrorist attack (highly unlikely based on the evidence) i would rather protect myself from terrorists than have a nanny state take away my rights for temporary security...ben franklin said it best...

i dont understand JJ why you consider anything that you 'don't know' or aren't educated on "propaganda" and that you "won't believe it"...are you serious dude? like you said above..."i'm not dumb enough to be discussing shit on the phone"....of course, because law enforcement could somehow be listening...but that's how we deal with it, but the fundamental fact is it SHOULDN'T be happening. i think that's what me and other members are attempting to get across...it's not about the outcome or how things are playing out but the reasons behind why they are the way they are...if all of a sudden men in pink suits showed up at your door and said "Annual cavity search"....what would you do? I'm sure the first word would be "WHAT?!"...are you going to then say "well, i don't hide things up my butt...feel free!"? There's a line. The establishment crossed it decades ago with the inception of the federal reserve. Some of us feel crossing the line is a major violation of our rights, the constitution, etc...and some of us speak up about the events in the world...and yes, sometimes simply letting things go is the best you can do because some of it will eat at you..

 

[InvisibleEmpire]

...but back to flying...

Bottom line here is that the government has stepped in and basically said you do everything we tell you (obey) or you will be fined and imprisoned. Our rights have been taken away and we are forced to undergo sexual assault to simply travel, which has been defined as a human right. I understand security measures are necessary (metal detectors) but this is going way too far to protect against a false threat....like i said before....you are more likely to be killed by a cop than a terrorist...so where are the security measures against the police?

It's not necessary. It's a lie to get the public used to submitting. I don't have any plans on flying soon, and if I ever choose to in the near future you bet your last dime i'm either going to record everything or make a hilarious scene (moan sexually as the TSA officer touches me, tell him i'm gay or something, etc.)

 

[JJScorpio]

I think I'm a realist. I put the evidence together and then try and make an educated opinion based on the facts before me. And by facts I don't mean any conspiracy regarding our government knocking down the twin towers.

I also don't feel the new measures are entirely due to 9/11. There have been dozens of bombings and threats since this happened. If anything I'd blame it on our refusal to leave the middle east, which may or may not have been due to 9/11, depending on the story you choose to believe.

And I have no idea why you'd say I live my life not caring. That may come from your frustration that I don't buy into Government conspiracies. I don't fight imaginary battles nor ones I can't see. I won't spread rumors or false information like the Govt wants us to do because it clouds peoples judgement and puts them in danger.

I believe the Govt feeds on people like you to spread that propaganda and fear. The more people that spend time obsessing on this false information, the less people will have their eyes open to what's going on around them. And that's what I find dangerous to peoples safety.

As an example, a few years ago my local LEO put an article in the paper that they had started a special task squad to look for outside grows. Some people got scared and didn't go near their grows. The truth of the matter was, as I heard directly from the cop involved was there never was any task force. But it sure looked good to the taxpayers and stopped some people from growing. At this same time there was a grower who decided he was going to stop the competion. He started telling other people that sold that he was taken in and questioned and was asked questions regarding certain people. Needless to say these people stopped growing and selling. He used the Governments own tricks to his advantage.

So I'll gladly be cautious regarding certain things, but I refuse to buy into anything without facts. There's to many people that live their lives in fear based on nothing but propaganda spread by people.

On that note, did you hear the latest news? The Government has come up with something they put in the drinking water that makes growers come forward and sign statements against themselves? Don't drink the water, lol..........

 

[sac beh]

You and I are very different my friend, apathy comes easy to you and you feel that as long as something "serves its purpose", regardless of the way it is implemented it is necessary.

that's the point...millions of americans don't believe the official 9/11 story which is why these security measures are taking place...without 9/11 there would be no security because there would be no 'threat'...the problem is that 'threat' was created, that 'threat' was manufactured and to be quite honest i suggest you watch movies like Loose Change in which is breaks down every single 'fact' about 9/11 which includes the fact that multiple "hijackers" stood up after 9/11 saying no, i'm still alive and i'm not a terrorist...passports magically flying down in the debris, not a scratch, for an FBI agent to pick up and say "Oh, here's a passport of da terrorist!"...please.

if you don't believe the story because of evidence it null and voids any measures the establishment has taken (patriot act, patriot act 2, airport security, backscatter xray, etc.)...also, even IF....even IF cavemen in turbans somehow made NORAD stand down and executed a perfect terrorist attack (highly unlikely based on the evidence) i would rather protect myself from terrorists than have a nanny state take away my rights for temporary security...ben franklin said it best...

i dont understand JJ why you consider anything that you 'don't know' or aren't educated on "propaganda" and that you "won't believe it"...are you serious dude? like you said above..."i'm not dumb enough to be discussing shit on the phone"....of course, because law enforcement could somehow be listening...but that's how we deal with it, but the fundamental fact is it SHOULDN'T be happening. i think that's what me and other members are attempting to get across...it's not about the outcome or how things are playing out but the reasons behind why they are the way they are...if all of a sudden men in pink suits showed up at your door and said "Annual cavity search"....what would you do? I'm sure the first word would be "WHAT?!"...are you going to then say "well, i don't hide things up my butt...feel free!"? There's a line. The establishment crossed it decades ago with the inception of the federal reserve. Some of us feel crossing the line is a major violation of our rights, the constitution, etc...and some of us speak up about the events in the world...and yes, sometimes simply letting things go is the best you can do because some of it will eat at you..

I really agree with what JJScorpio is saying in this thread. JJ's comments aren't apathetic. The only choices are not apathy or fear. There is a middle road, which I think he is trying to maintain.

Fear is used to convince people of things that there is no evidence for. If there were evidence for this or that theory, it wouldn't be necessary to hype up the theories based on fear.

I just don't understand why airport security is so offensive to people. Yeah the searches and groping are annoying. Yeah these new scanners need to be studied better to understand their health effects. But I don't think the TSA is out to F anyone. And these 5-10 minute inconveniences at airport security are a much better choice than letting fear and emotion drive us to insane solutions like profiling all Muslims or starting wars.

 

[InvisibleEmpire]

I really agree with what JJScorpio is saying in this thread. JJ's comments aren't apathetic. The only choices are not apathy or fear. There is a middle road, which I think he is trying to maintain.

Fear is used to convince people of things that there is no evidence for. If there were evidence for this or that theory, it wouldn't be necessary to hype up the theories based on fear.

I just don't understand why airport security is so offensive to people. Yeah the searches and groping are annoying. Yeah these new scanners need to be studied better to understand their health effects. But I don't think the TSA is out to F anyone. And these 5-10 minute inconveniences at airport security are a much better choice than letting fear and emotion drive us to insane solutions like profiling all Muslims or starting wars.

Maybe he is, I don't know, but his comments clearly ring an apathetic tone...

You are right about fear, but you are wrong about our rights. Again, let me reiterate, not all of us believe 9/11 occurred the way the 9/11 commission says it did...and because of that we all feel the additional security measures are unwarranted, a gross violation of our constitutional rights protecting us from invasion of privacy or unwarranted searches...just because you feel that the TSA isn't "out to F anyone" doesn't mean they aren't. I think they are. I think they're the trigger man for a government hell-bent on rules, restrictions and less rights for the little man. You don't need to profile. You don't need backscatter xray. You don't need pat downs. You need logic and metal detectors...that's it. The rest is all fear-based created by a falling establishment.

 

[sac beh]

The idea that the government orchestrated 9/11 in order to build the empire at home by taking more of our rights away, and that stronger airport security was one of the main methods of rights-stealing, this idea seems so implausible to be nearly impossible. I grant that its possible, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and I haven't seen the extraordinary evidence to tie the whole story together, though I've done my DD and research on the topic.

As much as I despised the administration responsible for the terrible response to 9/11, the shit hasn't hit the fan like the inside jobers and conspiracy theorists would have you believe. So, 1) lack of evidence, 2) lack of any real attack on my actual rights (other than the standard ones that have been happening over long periods), and there's nothing to go on but fear of what the establishment could be planning to do. And as JJ said, its not worth my time. The obsession with these shadowy invisible problems keep us from doing anything about the real problems in our society. But that is something authoritarian government officials would like you to do, obsess over things with no evidence like religion and conspiracy theories to keep you occupied and apathetic concerning real problems.

 

[InvisibleEmpire]

The idea that the government orchestrated 9/11 in order to build the empire at home by taking more of our rights away, and that stronger airport security was one of the main methods of rights-stealing, this idea seems so implausible to be nearly impossible. I grant that its possible, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and I haven't seen the extraordinary evidence to tie the whole story together, though I've done my DD and research on the topic.

As much as I despised the administration responsible for the terrible response to 9/11, the shit hasn't hit the fan like the inside jobers and conspiracy theorists would have you believe. So, 1) lack of evidence, 2) lack of any real attack on my actual rights (other than the standard ones that have been happening over long periods), and there's nothing to go on but fear of what the establishment could be planning to do. And as JJ said, its not worth my time. The obsession with these shadowy invisible problems keep us from doing anything about the real problems in our society. But that is something authoritarian government officials would like you to do, obsess over things with no evidence like religion and conspiracy theories to keep you occupied and apathetic concerning real problems.

3 words:

Debunk Loose Change.

You and JJ may feel that ignoring the problems in life is a way to 'cope' or 'deal' with them...but many of us don't. Discussing issues is a way to raise awareness and with awareness comes change. I don't have to protest in DC to have an opinion...there IS a shadow government, it may not be as 'spooky' as the conspiracy theorists make it out to be but they are for-sure running the game (international bankers, governments, transnational corporations, etc.)

You act as if the evidence is on your side, evidence is on the side of caveman hijacking jetliners...sorry dude, the evidence is not. Pilots, architects and the designer of the WTC have came out against the 9/11 commission report, multiple firefighters on the day of 9/11 reported hearing dozens of explosions similar to those of a detonation, demolishing crews have repeatedly said buildings cannot fall at free fall speed without the structure giving way, jet fuel could not have damaged the structure that much to cause such a collapse of both buildings....if jet fuel did that, how the HELL did a terrorists' passport make it out of the explosion and land on all news stations? cleaning crews in the WTC reported explosions in the basement...debris contained traces of thermate...

...lastly...4 words...

World Trade Center Tower 7

^ explain that one.

George Carlin even did a bit about the people in power in his HBO special...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5dBZDSSky0

You think it's such a far fetched idea that our government would stage 9/11...UH...HELLO....GULF OF TONKIN?