Room needs help, no one to turn too but you!

[Merfolk]

System: Ebb & Grow 15 sites

Nutes: Lucas formula, currently using 4-8 Ratio, did start off with 2-4

Medium: Hydroton

Lights: 3 1k lights, 2 Hps, 1 MH, 2 air cooled, one barebuled.

Ventilation: Pulling cold air through 2 cooltubes, and a Carbon filter recircing the room air

Strain: Most are PPP ( Power Plant ) 1 is unknown ( the best looking one) and 5 are about Blue Dream

Res: 80f ph currently 5.9 and just added super thrive today ppm around 650

Not sure what the problem is here fellas, i got 15 clones of pure power plant in rockwool cubes, put them in the system, and hand watered for a few days before flooding ever 3 hours -

2 weeks go by, not much growth and some are wilting and dieing off -

I started with 25% Strength with my Formula ( Lucas 2-4 )

im prolly at week 4 with these and lights are on 24/7 and only a few seem to be taking off...


i thought perhaps i was getting root Rot and the rockwool cubes retain alot of water, i flushed with water, then about .1 ML Per gal of Physan 20, rinsing that with Clearex, then back to a fresh res about 4 days ago, see some minor improvements, some fresh growth, but still, whats the deal ?

Ph seems to be climing, ill set it at around 5.3( low i know but it evens with the water left in the buckets after a flood) after 2 days or so ill be around 6.1

Starting ppm Of my water is 50 and water around 6.5




Suggestions? What can i tell you to help me with my problem ?

i got some left over dust of the hydroton, but would this cause all that?


Thanks so much in advance!

 

[DevilWeed]

Merfolk, I went through almost the exact same situation with my Ebb & Grow. I could only attribute it to a nute issue of some sort but I never figured it out. Some died, some finished Ok. I only flooded every 12 hours in veg so you may want to toy with that. Are you only flooding them for 15 mins? I wouldn't go any longer... I don't see tips burning, so this could be a lack of nutes... Is it a hungry strain usually? 80f for the res is high (IMO). I kept mine around 70f.

Everything I say should be taken with the knowledge that I never figured this out. My E & G sits unused in the corner for now, it will come back out at some point. Same strains are doing great in soil and coco...but I still like the simplicity of maintenance with the E&G. Just gotta nail it down...

 

[Merfolk]

Merfolk, I went through almost the exact same situation with my Ebb & Grow. I could only attribute it to a nute issue of some sort but I never figured it out. Some died, some finished Ok.

Did you ever have a repeat with the issue next grow?

I only flooded every 12 hours in veg so you may want to toy with that. Are you only flooding them for 15 mins?

Flooding every 3 hours, pump is on feeding for about 40 min - sits for 5 min, then drains, what do you think the problem would be if its being flooded for too long? you think the roots are under water for too long too often ?

I don't see tips burning, so this could be a lack of nutes... Is it a hungry strain usually? 80f for the res is high (IMO). I kept mine around 70f.

New Strain, Possibly a lack of nutes, like i said, i went from 25% to 50% in the last 3 weeks, (2-4) to a (4-8)



Yea i have no clue - i will try with a new set of clones from the plant that is just thriving, and if that doesn't work, back to the system drawing board.


Anyone else are to chime in ?

 

[PuReKnOwLeDgE]

hey man sorry about your ladies.

What EC are you running?

You should consider filling out the sick plant form stickied in the infirmary.

Is 40min normal for an ebb and flo to flood?

I would be running like .7-.8 ec for the smaller sick girls, sucks you have larger plants who will require more nutes though.

Check the blocks lately? Could be over watering the cubes causing rot with the hot temps maybe?

 

[Merfolk]

hey man sorry about your ladies.

What EC are you running?

You should consider filling out the sick plant form stickied in the infirmary.

Is 40min normal for an ebb and flo to flood?

I would be running like .7-.8 ec for the smaller sick girls, sucks you have larger plants who will require more nutes though.

Check the blocks lately? Could be over watering the cubes causing rot with the hot temps maybe?

Thanks man, it sucks!

i think ive seen 30 min floods, didnt think the xtra 10 min would hurt???

To be honest, the first initial 15 plants where all the same, even the biggest plant in there was the same size of the other clones, its just some took off and others didnt, your looking at about 3 weeks of them getting roots, and another 3-4 weeks in veg...


i wondered if the rockwool was getting too wet myself, causing some kind of rot, but when first put into the system, i didnt have my timers up so i was manually feeding them every 8 hours or so, and the symptoms started, i thought it might be due to the lack of feeding?



Highest temps ive seen in there was 91, but that was an extremly hot day, we are looking at 41 highs now so that is not an issue.

 

[Merfolk]

Yes, i will fill out that form, was busy as hell when i posted this, and using it as a last resort, ive done all i knew and turn to you guys to help me.. im not sure what the hell man!!



will fill that out, gonna smoke and think.

 

[PuReKnOwLeDgE]

I have seen some plants head south in rockeool/hydroron but in rdwc, from top feeding the rockwool. I would add some aquashield/hydroguard to the reservoir asap to help combat any bad shit in the system. Check your rockwool and roots. As for flood cycle I have no clue, that is why i asked. I run RDWC and with lucas formula basically, but I use the one part floranova grow and bloom. You should be flipping to flower right now with bushes.

Fill out the form, others will help if you do. Some others may have simliar experience in flood and drain.

Just don't over react, and you are in the best possible hands here on IC.

 

[Merfolk]

ive got 3 grows under belt and never ran into this, it sucks, but yea, taking adjustments slowly, i appriciate u takin the time to look

 

[gatoloco]

Hi mate, can you post a actual root pic?? They look like exaust and starving, look the roots and add more nutes. You can spray the plants with SN and root booster, or micro elements, etc to help to alleviate shortages

Good luck, keep it green

 

[Hammerhead]

That's why I start with 1 bucket get the kicks worked out and then start adding more buckets. I can grow fantastic bud in soil my own mix. You put a hydro system in front of me and your plants will be dead in a month. Someday I might try it but not before I have read and researched everything about that specific type of grow. When u make a mistake it shows up quick and needs your attention very quickly or there toast no wiggle room. Looks like you got it all PH problem,Over watered/underwatered, Nutrient burn. I thought the res temp is best arround 70f? im no expert here just tryin to help you rule out stuf.

 

[DevilWeed]

Merfolk, I never ran mine again, only that one time. I will drag it out again at some point but I suffer from the same affliction as Hammerhead. Soil or coco = gorgeous flowers. Hydro = dead plants.

When I had mine going I had 9 sites. It would flood in under 5 minutes i.e. - The pump would stop running and only kick on here and there to adjust the level. If yours is taking more than 15 mins to fully flood, I would take a look at the pump and make sure its running at full flow. Are you bubbling your res? If you aren't, a 40 minute soak in less that O2 rich water could be killing off roots.

If you are bubbling it, do you have any CO2 sources (especially intermittent) like Kerosene or propane heaters in the grow building? CO2 rich air bubbled in your res will drop pH. If you correct it then turn off the CO2, your pH will go wacky. I only mention it because it happened to me and may have been a huge part of my E & G failure. Damage was done before I nailed that part.

 

[Merfolk]

How long has this problem been going on? 10 days
What STRAIN are you growing? PowerPlant PPP
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) Clone
What is the age of your plants? 8 weeks
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? n/a
Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before? Rockwool to start
How Tall are the plants? ~ 10" to 1 1/2'
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? 3 weeks veg ( some are clones from a few days ago )
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) none
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 3.5

What brand Nutrient's are you using? General Hydroponics Micro + Bloom
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* 4-8 ratio with 45gallons
How often are you feeding? every 3 Hours

What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) Water first, Micro Second, then Bloom
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? ? no tds,ec,ppm here.
What is the pH of the Res: 5.8-6.3
How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS? Every day
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? Strips and Pen
How often are you watering? Every 3 hours
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? 2 hours ago
What size bulb are you using? 1000x2-3
How old is your bulbs? Fresh
What is the distance to the canopy? 3ft
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 20
What is the canopy temperature? 80 - 85f 93 max when third light is kicked on
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) 24hrs atm
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) currently have a 747 8" Vortex cranked down 1/2 pulling fresh air through my cool tubes
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? Exhausting the lights with outside air, Fresh air being sucked through the other 8" Vortex hooked on Carbon filter
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? 2 fans for circulation
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? moist
Is your water HARD or SOFT? soft water
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? tap water
If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen) 80ppm
Are you using water from a water softener? no
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? no
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? Neem oil, But that isn't a chemical ? =P
Are plant's infected with pest's?
I sometimes see what i think are gnats when i move a plant, and i spray neem oil to keep mites @ bay, ive been battling forever!

 

[Merfolk]

I currently changed out the water, with a 50% ratio ( 0-4-8 ) and added Super thrive, and feeding manually, i want to see if im watering too much, or for too long.

Timers are set to flood for 45 min, Stop, 5 min later Drain pump kicks on and Drains for 10 min

Gathering updated pictures for Diagnosis

 

[junior_grower]

those plants look like your having uptake issues in the root sytem. Check for discoloured roots, or evedence of fungas gnat larva, I would try using benificals in your res temps of 80 are high, I run 70-75 and I use beni's. Try giving them a good folliar feed, and add some h202 to the reze to clean it up.

 

[Merfolk]

those plants look like your having uptake issues in the root sytem. Check for discoloured roots, or evedence of fungas gnat larva, I would try using benificals in your res temps of 80 are high, I run 70-75 and I use beni's. Try giving them a good folliar feed, and add some h202 to the reze to clean it up.

Anything you recommend ? what Ratio do you use the H202 ?

Getting pictures of the roots of some of the pots.

 

[junior_grower]

well I'm going to guess you have some root rot issue and Phytophthora
, h202 and a mid to high dose will help reduce the Phytophthora
in the system but with a weakened root system I would recommend a full flush after you treat with H202. My recent grad studies are focusing on H202 and the enzyme peroxidase that breaks the h202 down. I have run a few tests now at h202 levels as high as 10% by volume, and in the short term exposure there was minimal to no root cell damage. However with long term exposure 10% was significantly damaging to the membranes. I would recommend a .5% solution used as a root dunk (a good 1 min soak), then a nice bath in clean fresh water to wash of the residual h202. With the plants out of the system a 1-3% solution can be used to clean it followed by a flush of clean water.

 

[Merfolk]

I cant seem to get good pictures of the roots, im the one who is holding up the netpots and trying to take pictures, its a task in itself, the majority show white roots...



Some roots are dark brown, almost the sign of Rot, but i was told the Micro part of my nutes Dyes the roots, so im not sure exactly what signs of root rot to find, but i didnt think much of the brown roots because of the Nutes i was using..


-------------

Added h202 to tap water(10ML a Gallon up to 150ML All i had), let the buckets soak for 10 mins once full, flushed the system for 2 hours, added back 50% nutes with 10 ML of Super thrive.

Im taking clones wed or so from the one that is thriving, and try it with those clones if these dont push back.


Any other suggestions?



I feel Dumb i didnt mention this before and im trying to correct the issue, but my Fill Bucket, is white, and Algae has taken over the bottom of the bucket, its bad, i got rid of it 2 weeks ago, and looking again its been in there for about 3-4 days...

could Green Algae be the cause of this?


edit: To solve this issue, i just wrapped some pana film over the bucket, should spray paint it flat black too - Couldnt find a bucket as square as that.

 

[Tr33]

You have Root Rot for sure.

Algae is the cause of your root rot for sure.
been there. You may have Root Aphids, they tag along with the root rot and help it along.
not fungus gnats, many people make the mistake of saying fungus gnats.
not much to do except use Physan20 to clean and cure the algae in your system.
Use Bayer, tree and shrub at 7ml per gal to kill those buggers.

 

[Merfolk]

Algae, cause root rot for sure.
been there.
not much to do except use Physan20 to clean and cure.

is that the Obvious remedy ? i mean is it like Duh!!!?!?!?



Not all plants are showing the dead symptoms though?


Ive got the p20 - i just did a flush with fresh nutes, i just read a user adding 1 drop per gallon to his res to help, what did you use?

 

[blahman]

Years ago I moved from dwc to a flood and drain system similar to this. I had one crop fail because I was not feeding enough. DWC i was using a top drip so the plants were getting a continual feeding. So a lower ppm was fine, but the lower ppm in a ebb and flow/flood and drain system was starving my plants. I had to start the plants at 400-500 ppm clone size, then up to 900-1000ppm fairly quickly to prevent this. You just went up to 650ppm, what was your ppm prior to this?

I went through all the steps you are trying to figure this problem out, thought it was root rot, there were a few brown and weak roots. Thought it was the amount of flooding, tried more tried less. Once I fed more everything corrected itself.

I would still use some physan 20 at 1ml per 10 gals just to make sure there isnt' anything in that system from the algae.