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Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?
- Thread starter k33ftr33z
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Fo20Blazerrr
Member
This is no new technique per say....
we had farmers done crops this style alone for hundred of years ...
back in my day they still do it, leaf pluck, prune, defoliation whatever you want to call it ...
any plants can and will be able to benefit from the so call technique, if you give them enough times and training ...
in this practices, you trade one thing for another, if you dont know what you're trading, take a deep breath, put your scissors down, take a step back and read some more ...
FO20.
we had farmers done crops this style alone for hundred of years ...
back in my day they still do it, leaf pluck, prune, defoliation whatever you want to call it ...
any plants can and will be able to benefit from the so call technique, if you give them enough times and training ...
in this practices, you trade one thing for another, if you dont know what you're trading, take a deep breath, put your scissors down, take a step back and read some more ...
FO20.
wat time is it?
FO
TWENNY!
+k
I had this big long thing typed out.. then i deleted it.. I am wasting my time in here....
if you want to grow big buds come check out my high yield techniques.tried tested and true. As well as fully documented.
If what your doing works for ya, keep doing it.
Grey mold is not caused by taking leaves off.... that is the most un-true thing i have heard of.It is caused by environment. That argument is just plain wrong.
if you want to grow big buds come check out my high yield techniques.tried tested and true. As well as fully documented.
If what your doing works for ya, keep doing it.
Grey mold is not caused by taking leaves off.... that is the most un-true thing i have heard of.It is caused by environment. That argument is just plain wrong.
Grey mold is not caused by environment.
That is the same as saying "You get sick from cold weather."
It's just not true. STOP LYING.
Grey mold is caused by a pathogen, a small particle which finds a place to live and reproduce.
Yea, maybe my temps were a little low. Or maybe I had a little less circulation than I should have had, considering I was defoliating my plants.
One plant defoliated, one plant not defoliated. Defoliated plant developed grey mold.
If grey mold is from the _environment_ then BOTH my plants side by side eachother would have developed grey mold.
Clearly, defoliating had SOMETHING to do with the development of grey mold.
That is the same as saying "You get sick from cold weather."
It's just not true. STOP LYING.
Grey mold is caused by a pathogen, a small particle which finds a place to live and reproduce.
Yea, maybe my temps were a little low. Or maybe I had a little less circulation than I should have had, considering I was defoliating my plants.
One plant defoliated, one plant not defoliated. Defoliated plant developed grey mold.
If grey mold is from the _environment_ then BOTH my plants side by side eachother would have developed grey mold.
Clearly, defoliating had SOMETHING to do with the development of grey mold.
medical marvel
Member
I'm going to chime in here and give my vote to this technique.
As said, you need to know what's shaking, and what your baseline yield is.
The key to this FOR ME..is the very long veg stage...when they are ready for 12/12 they are pretty much a 2 and a half foot square canopy..screenless SCROG ....complete stripping back to top colas 1 week before 12/12
quick trim during flower. I have almost no popcorn. This speeds cleanup etc. you really have to know your strains and how they react to various methods.
As said, you need to know what's shaking, and what your baseline yield is.
The key to this FOR ME..is the very long veg stage...when they are ready for 12/12 they are pretty much a 2 and a half foot square canopy..screenless SCROG ....complete stripping back to top colas 1 week before 12/12
quick trim during flower. I have almost no popcorn. This speeds cleanup etc. you really have to know your strains and how they react to various methods.
Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique
Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique
More than likely a bit of plant material rotted where plant material was removed.
Did you use scissors to remove the leaf, or did you pinch them off using the nails on your thumb and forefinger?
Using a blade/scissors leaves an open area for infection and bad shit (like mold)... Imagine you arm is slixed off by a sword... Theres a clean cut with plenty of surface for infection
If you arm was caught between 2 gears it would pinch off at a point and the wound would be closed up and the surface are for infection is greatly reduced
Thats how i was taught to do it anyways - pinch dont cut
Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique
More than likely a bit of plant material rotted where plant material was removed.
Did you use scissors to remove the leaf, or did you pinch them off using the nails on your thumb and forefinger?
Using a blade/scissors leaves an open area for infection and bad shit (like mold)... Imagine you arm is slixed off by a sword... Theres a clean cut with plenty of surface for infection
If you arm was caught between 2 gears it would pinch off at a point and the wound would be closed up and the surface are for infection is greatly reduced
Thats how i was taught to do it anyways - pinch dont cut
If grey mold is from the _environment_ then BOTH my plants side by side each other would have developed grey mold.
^^^^Thats not quite correct.
you may have a latent infection,where the plant is infected but symptoms of the disease may not be produced for a considerable time.In some crops the fungus can enter flowers and colonises the developing bud, but does not break out and cause a rot until the bud begins to ripen and sugar content rises.
Lets clear a few thing up about grey mould.
Grey mould is a disease caused by the fungus Botrytis cinerea. It normally enters through a wound or infects plants under stress, but will infect healthy plants as well, especially under humid conditions. It can be expected at any time of year.
Botrytis cinerea is an ubiquitous fungus, whose airborne spores are always present. It thrives as a saprophyte (a micro-organism living on dead organic material), but can also infect living plants under certain conditions.
On green plant parts, a wound or other stress is usually needed for infection, but on flowers and fruits it can infect without wounds, particularly under humid conditions.
Hygiene is very important. Remove dead and dying leaves,promptly
Do not leave dead plant material lying around.
Reduce humidity by improving ventilation and do not overcrowd plants.
XXXX(Grey mold is caused by a pathogen, a small particle which finds a place to live and reproduce.)XXXXX Not true.
Grey mould is formed when the airborne spore finds the correct environment to live in.
the pathogen that this spore carries infects your plant.
The fungus can form black, seed-like resting structures (sclerotia) in dead plant tissue,
this can then carry the fungus through periods when host plants are scarce.
These then germinate to generate the sexual structures which in turn release a second, sexual, spore. These can initiate infections, but most of the damage is done by spread of the airborne, a-sexual spores (conidia) released from the fuzzy grey fungal growth.
Also if you want to be pedantic, as we now know the sex of the spores, the correct name for your fungus would be Botryotinia fuckeliana as this is the PATHOGEN and the causal agent of grey mould.
Hope this clears a few things up.
But in laymen's terms it was your fault,your room is to warm and moist with poor ventilation,
Clearly,defoliating had SOMETHING to do with the development of grey mold.
The fact that you removed leaves of your plants, only highlighted your poor environment,by the onset of these infections.
BoB
^^^^Thats not quite correct.
you may have a latent infection,where the plant is infected but symptoms of the disease may not be produced for a considerable time.In some crops the fungus can enter flowers and colonises the developing bud, but does not break out and cause a rot until the bud begins to ripen and sugar content rises.
Lets clear a few thing up about grey mould.
Grey mould is a disease caused by the fungus Botrytis cinerea. It normally enters through a wound or infects plants under stress, but will infect healthy plants as well, especially under humid conditions. It can be expected at any time of year.
Botrytis cinerea is an ubiquitous fungus, whose airborne spores are always present. It thrives as a saprophyte (a micro-organism living on dead organic material), but can also infect living plants under certain conditions.
On green plant parts, a wound or other stress is usually needed for infection, but on flowers and fruits it can infect without wounds, particularly under humid conditions.
Hygiene is very important. Remove dead and dying leaves,promptly
Do not leave dead plant material lying around.
Reduce humidity by improving ventilation and do not overcrowd plants.
XXXX(Grey mold is caused by a pathogen, a small particle which finds a place to live and reproduce.)XXXXX Not true.
Grey mould is formed when the airborne spore finds the correct environment to live in.
the pathogen that this spore carries infects your plant.
The fungus can form black, seed-like resting structures (sclerotia) in dead plant tissue,
this can then carry the fungus through periods when host plants are scarce.
These then germinate to generate the sexual structures which in turn release a second, sexual, spore. These can initiate infections, but most of the damage is done by spread of the airborne, a-sexual spores (conidia) released from the fuzzy grey fungal growth.
Also if you want to be pedantic, as we now know the sex of the spores, the correct name for your fungus would be Botryotinia fuckeliana as this is the PATHOGEN and the causal agent of grey mould.
Hope this clears a few things up.
But in laymen's terms it was your fault,your room is to warm and moist with poor ventilation,
Clearly,defoliating had SOMETHING to do with the development of grey mold.
The fact that you removed leaves of your plants, only highlighted your poor environment,by the onset of these infections.
BoB
So we agree that if I hadn't defoliated any plants I may have avoided grey mold altogether.
I grow in my day job in the great outdoors. Molds & Botrytis (disease) spores are everywhere outside. When we leaf a vine, we do so in the spring when disease pressure is low. We manicure bunches when disease pressure is low. Add to that the fact that we use high tech products that make it difficult for disease to establish itself in the fruit. But we try never to trim or cut anything near the fruit (buds in this case) as we near harvest for fear of disease.
What I'm thinking here is that you had some spores floating around in your room (we all do - they are everywhere) and when you cut or pinched your leaves, you offered a point of entry for the pathogen.
Happens all the time. Diseases listed above are always seeking an entry point into the plant. Any cut or damaged shoot, stem or leaf offers that entry point which allows the pathogen easier access to what it seeks. So, even though you are a careful grower, mindful of disease, the simple act of "opening a wound" on the plant gave access to the disease. The first line of defense from any disease is overall plant health. Disease ALWAYS seems to seek to infect weaker plants. Defoliating is a known stresser.
So, IMO, you are probably right. The leaf removal did play a part in your disease (giving the pathogen easy access). But it wasn't the murderer. It was only an accessory to murder.
My 2 cents.
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sort of but not quite.
yes i agree, had you not removed any leaf, you may not have got any mould.
but if you had removed leaf,and your environment was dry enough to not support the growth of these spores,then i also believe you wouldn't have gotton any mould issues.
its all down to your environment, keep rh below 62% in flower and temps above 70d plenty of fresh air circulating, and i carnt see why you would get mould in the first place.
Bob
yes i agree, had you not removed any leaf, you may not have got any mould.
but if you had removed leaf,and your environment was dry enough to not support the growth of these spores,then i also believe you wouldn't have gotton any mould issues.
its all down to your environment, keep rh below 62% in flower and temps above 70d plenty of fresh air circulating, and i carnt see why you would get mould in the first place.
Bob
Marquis de Sod
Member
i agree with mold being there and cutting providing an entry. seems obvious. as a person who DF'd everything in bloom and then had every plant get powdery mildew i sadly agree. that said. every plant i DF'd w/in the first week showed zero improvement and looked like crap till they got pulled this morning. the ones DF'd at about 16 days did great. however, i am convinced my strain of shanti devi is garbage because all i have gotten no matter DF or not is popcorn popcorn and more popcorn, even at the tops of my uppermost branches. stay away from this strain at ALL COSTS! btw they did do great when DF'd in veg, but recovery to get there was way to f'in long, like two to three weeks. better to top these. but i am blooming them all out to get rid of this crappy strain.
also, my mildew problem had not so much to do with DF'ing as much as my standing runoff water in my trays that bumped the humidity up into the stratosphere.
AND i just want to state the OBVIOUS that if you touch a plant with mold (mainly pinching off a leaf during DF, make sure you wash your hands before you give mold to another plant. this shit is just like herpes! and similarly, it seems to NEVER GO AWAY)
also, my mildew problem had not so much to do with DF'ing as much as my standing runoff water in my trays that bumped the humidity up into the stratosphere.
AND i just want to state the OBVIOUS that if you touch a plant with mold (mainly pinching off a leaf during DF, make sure you wash your hands before you give mold to another plant. this shit is just like herpes! and similarly, it seems to NEVER GO AWAY)
Sorry bob. You are wrong. Lecture me on disease infection & prevention when you have battled it for a living for decades.
Humidity has far less to do with disease then plant health and plant wounds offering entry of the pathogen. Humidity may offer the disease more ideal growing conditions, but it still needs to be infected.
BorkBorkBork
Member
OP's method, groomed from early veg.
First post-flip defol at day 19.
Pre-op
EDIT: POST OP
Note that I still clean up the bottom 1/3 or so. I found that with the mini (250) hps that I have, even after heavy defol, the light simply does not penetrate deep enough to make the bottom fluff worth it.
Edit: Stoned, forgot these.
5 days later
First post-flip defol at day 19.
Pre-op
EDIT: POST OP
Note that I still clean up the bottom 1/3 or so. I found that with the mini (250) hps that I have, even after heavy defol, the light simply does not penetrate deep enough to make the bottom fluff worth it.
Edit: Stoned, forgot these.
5 days later
Last edited:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-Hope
sort of but not quite.
Bob
Sorry bob. You are wrong. Lecture me on disease infection & prevention when you have battled it for a living for decades.
Humidity has far less to do with disease then plant health and plant wounds offering entry of the pathogen. Humidity may offer the disease more ideal growing conditions, but it still needs to be infected.
@grapeman the sort of but not quite comment was aimed at truth or lie.and by no means was a lecture intended for you or anyone else.
im fully aware of the causes of mould and what contributes to its spreading,
i was just trying to point out that spores are everywhere, and open wounds, climate,and stress can all be contributing factors.
BoB
apologie given, if you think its needed.
Originally Posted by Bob-Hope
sort of but not quite.
Bob
Sorry bob. You are wrong. Lecture me on disease infection & prevention when you have battled it for a living for decades.
Humidity has far less to do with disease then plant health and plant wounds offering entry of the pathogen. Humidity may offer the disease more ideal growing conditions, but it still needs to be infected.
@grapeman the sort of but not quite comment was aimed at truth or lie.and by no means was a lecture intended for you or anyone else.
im fully aware of the causes of mould and what contributes to its spreading,
i was just trying to point out that spores are everywhere, and open wounds, climate,and stress can all be contributing factors.
BoB
apologie given, if you think its needed.
Hmm... I did use scissors...
No worries Mr. Hope. It's just that humidity is not the cause, just an accelerant.
Everybody here just pinches with fingers. If you do not have favorable conditions, you should never get mold. Open wounds with mold spores in the air is adding fuel to the fire. Any way you look at it, the fact is you need more airflow or lower humidity...that is the root of your problem. Fix that even if you never defoliate again.
buddin_904
Member
OP's method, groomed from early veg.
First post-flip defol at day 19.
Pre-op
EDIT: POST OP
Note that I still clean up the bottom 1/3 or so. I found that with the mini (250) hps that I have, even after heavy defol, the light simply does not penetrate deep enough to make the bottom fluff worth it.
Edit: Stoned, forgot these.
5 days later
1st off i apologize for reposting pics however these are GREAT ONES TO REPOST!
2nd off, AWESOME EXAMPLE of someone who knows what the fucks good with defoliations...you had an amazing canopy filled out.....u removed the leaves...now your former "popcorn buds" are going to turn into fat buds....WATCH AND LEARN PRICKS! THIS WAS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF A PERFECT DEFOLATION!
expert work...i love you
buddin_904
Member
i agree with everything you did BORKBORKBORK....just saw u use a small watt light no biggie.....i agree with the slight lollypopping (removal of bottom fluff, as you stated it) as you mentioned because the 250 has such low penetration...this was a good move along with your perfect defolation...im impressed...i lately have strayed away from this thread because of haters...but i want to see the remainder of your grow....very intrested in what numbers your going to pull from your 250....keep it up man...very impressed over here...i thought, by the looks of it you had like a 600 in there..LOL not...very nice very nice
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