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Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?
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this thread people starting to mess it up i was trying to learn more from people that have done it and produce better yield now its just a joke to everyone
overmyhead
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Well, I have no pics to back this one up but I had some tubs doing jrosek style sog, no drain, straight perlite in shitty conditions, floro bloom only, no love and 400w lowes bulbs. One regular size dish tub with 4 dutch passion strawberry cough cuts, one got never took but the other three yielded 143g of high quality and about 7g of fluff, then a 10 gal rubbermaid tub with 8 blackberry kush cuts did 250g. Now I've got some blackberry's underr 600's in coco beds with blumats - looking nice and pics, but one of the lights was on 50% for a few weeks - I turned it down to do some work an not get fried and I guess just totally forgot about it until I noticed funky bud developement but it will be interesting to see the final results in a month or so, also have others right behind it.
And this:
looked like this:
before being defoliated again.
Grown under weak floro lighting, it takes (3) to (4) days for a fully stripped plant to look like the last picture above.
this should give people some indications on timeline if they go this route. It's way quicker if you veg under HID lighting. These plants are in straight perlite so it'll take longer if you're in peat.
Many people may not go as extreme as this. But my posts in this forum kind of give a "worst-case" scenario. This has applications not only in production plants but also for mother plant maintenance and for canopy management.
With horizontal lighting it is desirable to have an even canopy height. The more plants you have the harder to achieve. Selective fan leaf removal (off the top nodes) can help you equalize your canopy.
Quite frankly now I think I will just stick with SOG'S, for a lot of these.
justwatchin
Member
LOL, didn't realized you ans. I was giving you advise because I've done it already, not because I was speculating, and now you to will have the experience
of waisting your time. A greater majority of the strains I've run with this method yield and smoke much better being pruned only once in flower after the stretch(3-4wks). You can get better quicker results topping if a multi-stemmed plant is what you are aiming for. If you insist on defoliating in veg, do it on a more leafy indica based strain where budsites have developed allot more and do it more slowly (over a couple of days) starting from the top working your way down. This would have laterals rushing up to your main bud then knotting up when they begin to swell, but what you have demonstrated is a plant striving for survival. You also get better results by growing out a big plant then tying the whole thing down as laterals hit a growth spurt in a rush to become the main stem, then lowering the light giving you better penetration.
You are killing your yields and wasting your time as the plant has to reproduce what you have cut off instead of redirecting its energy before it reaches the stage it's suppose to be at.
PS... Ans me this....I've been growing herb out-doors since I was a little boy with my father in the Caribbean. I've only now(4yrs) started dabbling indoors and 1yr micro. What the hell does post count has to do with experience growing pot?
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disciple
Sorry about above but it did make sense ...
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staff11
Floro lights and veg
Floro lights and veg
Disciple, HID doesn't really have anything to do with it.I usually top and then tie down the shoots. These were vegged under floros, in a cab:
And here is 4 weeks later with defoliation over that period:
This really did help out to keep this plant's vertical size down. I needed to keep vegging this plant due to no space in the flower closet. And you can see how bushy they get when you start in veg. Obviously this strain shows no ill effects, just takes a few weeks longer in veg. This plant grew only 4-5 inches taller in 4 weeks, but it bushed out like crazy.
In the after pics the plant has been transplanted to a 15 liter container from a 5 liter.
Floro lights and veg
Disciple, HID doesn't really have anything to do with it.I usually top and then tie down the shoots. These were vegged under floros, in a cab:
And here is 4 weeks later with defoliation over that period:
This really did help out to keep this plant's vertical size down. I needed to keep vegging this plant due to no space in the flower closet. And you can see how bushy they get when you start in veg. Obviously this strain shows no ill effects, just takes a few weeks longer in veg. This plant grew only 4-5 inches taller in 4 weeks, but it bushed out like crazy.
In the after pics the plant has been transplanted to a 15 liter container from a 5 liter.
A plant is like a business growing and making a product (chemical energy) from light, the leaves are where transactions happen and where the energy to grow and make bud or any other tissue comes from. The energy from the leaves can be used for whatever the genetics and environment dictate. Some plants will just make leaves and grow, like a growth oriented business making more seeds with more volume (this is all about reproduction after all). Some will 'focus' more on direct seed production using the energy to make seed more like a business that distributes profits as dividends instead of reinvesting in growth.
Mothers like bonsais are kept small just for their genetic potential, defoliation is very useful to keep them small. Just like if I took a slip of a 200 year old juniper bonsai and grew it out it would have the potential to become a full bush/tree, cannabis is not inherently "harmed" when bonsai-ed just kept stunted and unproductive.
When I cut a fan leaf from the base of a new stem and not its opposing counterpart (from seed obviously, before alternation of nodes) the stem with the fan leaf at its base will be getting food from the fan and will far outgrow the opposite stem with no fan leaf feeding it. The stem with no fan to feed it will be stunted and will have to start more leaves before it can grow again... this is not productive IMO, it wastes time but you will get a stockier plant in my experience.
A plant able to make food for itself will be able to make bud for you.
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disciple
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staff11
Close, it's actually 3 6500k and 2 2700k(42 watt). Those three plants were the same strain, all topped and then tied down. After that I defoliated one plant. If I hadn't, it would have grown into the lights by now even with more lst. By stripping the fan leaves it slowed vertical growth down to a crawl but as you have pointed out, it also decreased normal inter-node spacing and increased branching.
Actually, that is plain water with liquid karma a few times in my own amended soil mix. Plants love it.
Yeah this is why I have stated if you have limited room for the veg stage or flower for that matter you can control the height of the plant. I actually needed to do this with my last run. I just flipped that plant a few days ago, while I have had the other two plants in flower for almost 5 weeks, they are halfway done.
It's been an interesting experiment for my part, it really shows what you can do to train a plant early on. Bonsai all the way with the combination of topping/LST and plucking the leaves.
This technique could really be useful for people getting bigger yields with more time in smaller spaces.With larger grows I am not sure I see the point if you have the room.
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disciple
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disciple
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staff11
Yeah, well personally with this strain and my normal topping and training routine I can get right around 2 oz's per plant vegged for 3 weeks or so from clone in 8 liter containers under 300 watts of HPS for flower(in a 2.5 X 2 foot area). The extra two weeks with the defoliation added we will see what I can pull of this little bush. It's in a bigger container then I normally use so the results will be skewed a bit.
I am just wondering if I put two plants trained this way opposed to the way I normally can fit four and which would out yield the other.
I am just wondering if I put two plants trained this way opposed to the way I normally can fit four and which would out yield the other.
this thread is long, but thought i'd add my 2c.
I have the best luck with defoliation at specific times during the grow
1x about 2wks after rooted clones to increase light to budding sites
1x after about 6 weeks in veg
1x light defoliate in mid bloom to open up budding sites to more light
I was defoliating pretty heavily and i noticed some phenos dont like it much. Fan leaves seem to be a "nute-sink" and removing them can cause some nute burn. I also found that after defoliation, plants take up less h20/nutes, so best to not do just after watering. Lastly i thought i noticed a bit of less overall vigor in some buds after the crops were defoliated, so i'll be watching closely this round.
Defoliation has a place, do it carefully, cut back on nutes, and remember the intent is to provide more light to budding joints.
I have the best luck with defoliation at specific times during the grow
1x about 2wks after rooted clones to increase light to budding sites
1x after about 6 weeks in veg
1x light defoliate in mid bloom to open up budding sites to more light
I was defoliating pretty heavily and i noticed some phenos dont like it much. Fan leaves seem to be a "nute-sink" and removing them can cause some nute burn. I also found that after defoliation, plants take up less h20/nutes, so best to not do just after watering. Lastly i thought i noticed a bit of less overall vigor in some buds after the crops were defoliated, so i'll be watching closely this round.
Defoliation has a place, do it carefully, cut back on nutes, and remember the intent is to provide more light to budding joints.
im not saying that this 'defoliation' thing doesnt work or anything (i have doubts but the whole idea isnt my thing so im probably biased), but i think it should carry some kind of warning that it is an advanced technique.
y'know there are people doing this on their first grow and that cant be a good idea. they have no frame of reference and no idea if its working better than any other, lower stress method. many people have this idea that the more they 'do' the better it will be - thats why so many people over feed etc. one of the best things you can learn to do is to leave your plants alone to grow.
i have to say that now someone has decided to make it a sticky it looks like the method has been approved and endorsed - and i think it will end in tears for many inexperienced growers who are desparate to 'be in control' of their plants - when in most cases the plants know better.
sincerely
VG
y'know there are people doing this on their first grow and that cant be a good idea. they have no frame of reference and no idea if its working better than any other, lower stress method. many people have this idea that the more they 'do' the better it will be - thats why so many people over feed etc. one of the best things you can learn to do is to leave your plants alone to grow.
i have to say that now someone has decided to make it a sticky it looks like the method has been approved and endorsed - and i think it will end in tears for many inexperienced growers who are desparate to 'be in control' of their plants - when in most cases the plants know better.
sincerely
VG
Actually if you read the first post in this whole thread, he suggests that new growers do not try this method. I agree with him 100%. Learn how to grow before you experiment. That being said...This is not in the Newbie section, and like any other thread on this site anyone can read it and do what they want to with the information.
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