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Will California Vote to Legalize in November 2010?!

Will California Vote to Legalize in November 2010?!

  • Cali Resident: YES!

    Votes: 76 22.1%
  • Cali Resident: NO!

    Votes: 55 16.0%
  • Cali Resident: Undecided

    Votes: 7 2.0%
  • Non Resident: Yes

    Votes: 169 49.1%
  • Non Resident: No

    Votes: 17 4.9%
  • Will be too stoned, unregistered or busy trimming.

    Votes: 20 5.8%

  • Total voters
    344
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vta

Active member
Veteran
Author: Arthur G. Svenson
Note: Arthur G. Svenson is the David Boies Professor of Government at
the University of Redlands.


CONSIDER THE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF PROP. 19

In the debate over the wisdom of legalizing marijuana for fun and profit, too little has thus far been said about the constitutionality of Proposition 19 should it become California law; moreover, what would remain of that law in an inevitable challenge before the United States Supreme Court is an elephant in the kitchen about which California voters seem unaware.

Assume Proposition 19 passes and for reasons advanced by proponents of the measure, namely that every third American has used marijuana, and that its popularity is a function of marijuana's relatively harmless effects, making its recreational legalization less problematic than "alcohol or cigarettes, which are both legal for adult consumption."

The legalization of commercial marijuana offers an even more compelling reason to "just say yes" to Proposition 19 given its promise of "potential increased tax and fee revenues in the hundreds of millions of dollars annually and potential correctional savings of several tens of millions of dollars annually."

The mantra of Proposition 19 proponents is "no legalization without taxation," generating, as a consequence, new revenue streams to fund what matters most - "jobs, health care, schools and libraries, roads and more."

Could Proposition 19 be challenged on constitutional grounds, and if so, what would be left standing after the Supreme Court passed judgment on it?

California was the first state not only to criminalize marijuana, but to legalize it for medical purposes. No court of last resort, it must be said, has held that California law lifting criminal sanctions on medical marijuana for seriously ill Californians, their physicians and caregivers, is preempted by the federal law that imposes criminal sanctions on marijuana use for any purpose, and this is so for reasons not readily apparent.

California's Compassionate Use Act that immunizes medical marijuana from its criminal code authorizes no behavior that federal law can preempt. Thus, while marijuana use for any reason remains a federal crime, a decision by a sovereign state not to act to impose a criminal penalty on medical marijuana means that no state-federal conflict exists, rendering federal preemption of medical marijuana impossible.

Precisely the same constitutional logic would apply to a California law that lifts criminal sanctions against recreational use of marijuana. Legally speaking, the distinction between recreational and medical use of marijuana would amount to a distinction without a constitutional difference.

The practical difference, on the other hand, would be enormous since every third Californian could be arrested for felonious federal behavior. Then, again, since President Barack Obama's Justice Department has established a policy not to prosecute "individuals whose actions are in clear and unambiguous compliance with existing state laws providing for the medical use of marijuana" because federal enforcement resources are insufficient to police the large number of offenders, surely the imbalance between federal resources and potential California targets would be hopelessly exaggerated if marijuana for fun violates no part of the state criminal code.

Consider, though, the constitutional conflict between federal law and the legalization of marijuana for commercial gain. Proposition 19 would authorize local governments to raise revenue from a tax imposed on a banned federal substance - another first for the Golden State.

One might wonder why Californians would buy marijuana otherwise so easily cultivated in one's backyard. One might wonder, too, about the projected revenue estimates from buying and selling marijuana since competition among the state's 475+ local governments to attract cannabusinesses would drive tax rates down along with revenue-raising projections.

But one need not wonder about the Supreme Court's constitutional take on a California law that taxes a federally banned substance. If a local government imposes a tax on marijuana and a subsequent penalty for not paying that tax, federal and state law would require conflicting behavior: Not paying the state tax is evidence that state law has been violated, but paying the tax is evidence that federal law has been violated.

Thus, since state and federal law require conflicting behavior, and since federal law governing controlled substances is made in pursuance of the Constitution and is, therefore, the supreme law of the land, the Supreme Court would void the "for profit" element of Proposition 19, leaving undisturbed private consumption of marijuana "for fun."

The elephant in the kitchen of California voters? If there is any truth to the claim that for every dollar raised from alcohol and tobacco taxes, nearly $9 are spent to repair the carnage of abuse, adding yet another intoxicant to the mix could compound already staggering social and financial costs.

But voiding the legalization of marijuana for commercial purposes would leave the state with no new revenues for existing problems - not the promise of Proposition 19, and - worse - no new money for new problems linked to recreational abuse of marijuana - a nightmare consequence of the inevitable application of the constitutional principle of federal preemption.
 

Hrpuffnkush

Golden Coast
Veteran
I'm pretty much speechless...

Your right. I don't really give a fuck about The Government of California nor do I give a fuck about self centered retards like you.

I do, however, give a fuck about compassionate people, sick people needing medicine or the unjustly imprisoned.

I'd like to hear your well thought out and realistic way that legalization will happen in your perfect world.

Short term Compassion ?? Or Long term?
we can wait a few more years till they sort out a properly written neutral guide lines....

Its NOT ILLEAGAL FOR SICK PEOPLE....
That excuse aint cutting anymore!

You stand up for the sick and unjust but call people retards
nice display of IQ lol

With poorly made negative comments , Its very hard to justify anyones so called compassion for the sick and unjust....

:tiphat: Pretty Vacant if you ask me Mr Lydon lol
 
So very few people are sent to Jail for cannabis here in CA. Sure, we aren't able to walk down the main boulevard blazing our heads off - but short of the idiots who - in all honesty ask for it most of the time - many people don't go to jail.

My point was that it isn't hard to see how much of a failure that the regulation of medicinal cannabis has been, to pile on legalization for 'recreational' use just opens up a whole other can of worms.

You want my view of how it would be legalized in a perfect world? That's just a waste of time for both of us because in my perfect scenario grass is just grass and nobody has to profit off of it. But I forgot, I'm the greedy californian with a 1khps that has life better than everybody else.



I do apologize for the whole 'fuck whoever believes yada yada' comment - but aside from that I don't really see where I was out of line.

I don't care or have compassion for people in need? I'm a greedy fuck? Okay...

I've already stated that I grow and do not sell. I do not fear losing any sort of income if prop 19 passes. In facts, I can definitely see the benefits of the proposition - it's just too soon and I don't trust it. You want my reason you look at anything the CA govt tries to regulate or do correctly and there ya go.

As for the comment about you non-CA residents I still stand by it. You do not have to live here on a day to day basis, pay what we pay in taxes, fines, electricity, etc. It's real fun paying the man a few hundred bucks because you forgot to put on your seatbelt, your talking on your cell phone, or w/e reason. This state is broke, and don't tell me the revenue from prop 19 is going to fix anything because the biggest reason we are fucked in the first place is because of greed and stupidity. I have many reasons for not trusting this prop but tbh its late I've had a long day and I can't even put a solid though together.

I've informed myself as much as possible. I've left the subject alone and revisited it many times and my gut feeling on it has not changed. This is an internet soapbox, if I'm not thorough enough for you, don't waste your time reading these words. In the end all my opinion is good for is a single vote. I just wish this wasn't a situation where I feel we're damned either way.
It's now over never bro If we vote no we wont live to see It come around again Peace.
 

Stankonia

Member
Non cali res that at first thought for sure this would pass come Nov 2. But as.the day gets cl9ser I'm not so sure anymore. I do hope it passes. While it may have its negs the pos I think greatly out weighs neg. And maybe a pass on Nov 2 could start swift snowball effect.
 

Mr.Tortoise

Member
I agree with you Stankonia. This may not be ideal by any means but it is something. Hopefully if this passes other states will pass better initiatives and we will stop this totally irrational drug war. No bill is perfect, nor is it set in stone.
 

David762

Member
I'm not in California, but given the opportunity, I would vote "YES".

My current location is Virginia, which never got beyond the legislative underpinnings of enabling the possibility of a doctor's recommendation, but without any other legal recourse. That happened iirc 30 years ago. The proximity of the Federal government, many military installations in the state, and a resurgence of Bible-belt enforcement of public morality has crushed any further liberalization of state cannabis legislation.

And this, being the state of Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and the Jamestown Colony -- each of which admonished fellow citizens to grow cannabis/hemp as part of our civic duty. All this has been lost to time, and the assault of prohibitionist propaganda and DEA censors who would re-write history in their fascistic image.
 

kmk420kali

Freedom Fighter
Veteran
I just gave up a days pay... to come Vote--
Vote your hearts ppl..I cannot imagine a thingy on the Ballot that says, "Vote "Yes" here for legalized Marijuana"...and me voting anything but YES!!
Much love to all-- Vote your Heart!!
 

Toyot4

Member
Im a young one and i feel this could be the only opportunity to vote on something like this. The next opportunity might be an initiative written by Phillip Morris himself. Gotta be careful what we vote for, but most importantly we have to get out and vote.

Lets just see who gets off their asses and votes tommorrow.
 
G

Ganja D

I will be busy Harvesting and trimming,and I'm not registered. However my vote would be no.
I know it would be a huge step in the right direction and I am against any human being incarcerated for association with the Cannabis plant.(except for stealing it?)
Thing is,this bill would be settling for something less than real freedom.
I've been risking my freedom for 15 years because of my love for our plant. I have sacrificed a normal life and have lived in fear. I want Cannabis legalized PERIOD,but this bill does not give anybody the opportunity to use or grow cannabis ANY way they want. We need tons of education,adjusting our existing medical laws,and federal understanding/approval first. Education is key,most people don't know shit about cannabis and are horribly uniformed.
But... I will be too busy harvesting and trimming so whatever happens happens.
This is a topic I'm sure we could all discus or debate for days.
 
Last edited:
I will be busy Harvesting and trimming,and I'm not registered. However my vote would be no.
I know it would be a huge step in the right direction and I am against any human being incarcerated for association with the Cannabis plant.(except for stealing it?)
Thing is,this bill would be settling for something less than real freedom.
I've been risking my freedom for 15 years because of my love for our plant. I have sacrificed a normal life and have lived in fear. I want Cannabis legalized PERIOD,but this bill does not give anybody the opportunity to use or grow cannabis ANY way they want. We need tons of education,adjusting our existing medical laws,and federal understanding/approval first. Education is key,most people don't know shit about cannabis and are horribly uniformed.
But... I will be too busy harvesting and trimming so whatever happens happens.
This is a topic I'm sure we could all discus or debate for days.


And as it has been said before, if you are waiting for politicians from any party to completely legalize cannabis, you will be waiting forever. It will never happen this way.

And no it's not the best initiative, but it is a realistic, foot in the door when it comes to full legislation that you describe that can and will be built upon and opened up in the future.
 

Hash Zeppelin

Ski Bum Rodeo Clown
Premium user
ICMag Donor
Veteran
hmmmmmm lets use common sense shall we?

will the new tax revenue go to underfunded schools? no!

cuz the police need new Crown Vics and Chargers.

have you actually lived in this state? you should know then...

ARE YOU STILL HERE? every time some one on both sides of the argument disproves one of your pointless points you just migrate over to another thread and spout some other far fetched bullshit reason to vote no on this.

This point is no different. There is no possible way that you can say that all the tax dollars collected will go to LEO. That is absurd. different counties and cities have different necessities, and tax money distribution has nothing to do with LEO. They have no say where that money goes. For some reason I doubt you have even graduated from high school.
 
:gday: As an Aussie I want to see it legalized in California because
then it will increase the probability of eventual legislation down under. After all it was America that made it illegal some 70-80 years ago and then using the power of their empire pressured the rest of the world to follow suit. The American Empires influence, dominance and control extends throughout the world and our? government simply does what its told....

....it made The? News in Australia a week or so ago.....and will undoubtedly be on the news over the next few days.



personally I would make all drugs legal if it was up to me.
 

beamx0r

Member
everyone in california who said no needs to get off the bs. The state I live in will crucify anyone caught with a roach. If cali passes this it would be a step in the right direction (even if it's not under the exact terms you wanted). Stop being so selfish and think about the impact it will have on the other states and the WORLD!
 

basspirate

Member
If I were sitting in jail cell next to some scary, violent motherfuckers for carrying a QP in the car...I'd really not be giving a fuck about much of the naysay on 19; a step in the right direction is what it is, imo.
 
A

Aeronoob

Today you need to vote yes. If you think another better bill will come along, it won't. if you'd like to wait till the end of your lifetime for the better bill, then wait, but if you'd like to be able to say I voted Yes on nov 2 and made history in the USA, then vote yes on it as 1. it will greatly help twords legal issues with people who grow personals and its a step, its something, its less heat off your mind about that closet grow you have going on...... VOTE YES. For the people who say vote no, they are growers making a profit, so fuck them cus if california looses then its because partly that their greedy asses don't want to have their profit split down. honestly if california legalizes it, I think wide spread demand over the whole US will BOOM becuase people prospectives will change on it, they will be like ITS LEGAL IN ANOTHER STATE so it must be okay to smoke......Greed can no longer be a aprt of how laws are made in this country, VOTE YES...
 
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