Is it possible that reality is not what you think?...yes?/no?...lol

[southflorida]

FWIW Dmt is naturally occurring within your brain. So how would smoking DMT harm your health? If simply smoking is the issue, it can be ingested in other ways which lengthen the trip vastly.

DMT is a miraculous substance.

...that is a much better solution

...where can one get dmt? by the way?

 

[HempKat]

While distinction is not a concept, but an absolute truth.

No distinction isn't an absolute truth but rather the equation distinction = reality is an absolute truth, at least according to what I get out of what you've been saying. Distinction at best is just the perception of the self mind.

 

[southflorida]

Depends how you define living, believe in
reincarnation and you are fine. Buddhists would say.. this body or that
body doesnt matter, intelligence is immortal

articsun...my point is that all this is distinctions and concepts, that
before the "distinctions" are made, there is NOTHING, this is the
primary thing to grasp, and it is what I'm trying to say.

No one "knows" if there is reincarnation, or for that matter, no one
knows "anything." We mistake knowing for opinions, beliefs, convictions,
or whatever, all these are concepts and distinctions. We do not
know what they are as-themselves and for-themselves, we only
know what they are when we compare them to something else.

...so as far as believes...the best place to test them out is in the
arena of "objective" reality...and not in our minds, because the mind
can create any concepts, and DOES.

...objective reality...is what is...and even though it's true nature
is nothing, in the domain of "objective reality" it is as real as it
can be. And in the domain of "objective reality" beliefs don't really
have that much weight.

If someone throws a rock at you, your beliefs will not help you that
much, you will be hit with the rock. Obviously, your interpretation,
and the meaning you give to this event, will be based on your
beliefs, and because of this your reaction will be different from
someone that believes something different from you, but your
"belief" that the rock won't hit you...will not create the reality,
of you "not-being-hit."

Of course, I mean, if you are actually hit with the rock, and continue
to believe that you can't get hit by this rock, and not if you turn
away from the rock, and it won't hit you because of this objective
action that you took.

 

[southflorida]

No distinction isn't an absolute truth but rather the equation distinction = reality is an absolute truth, at least according to what I get out of what you've been saying. Distinction at best is just the perception of the self mind.

Distinction is the function of consciousness, and because of this
it is an absolute truth. They are not separate...or distinct.

Consciousness = Distinction = Consciousness.

In other words, there is no distinction "distinction." Distinction simply "is"
as-itself and for-itself, and not in relation to anything else.

The self mind perceives "distinctions" but they are not created by
the "self-mind" and this is a very important DISTINCTION in itself,
and what confuses many people. We are perceiving distinctions,
but these distinctions are a function of consciousness.

This is probably the most outrageous thing that I became aware of.
The realization/insight that the distinctions that I am perceiving are
not created by my mind...but by consciousness. This is what turns
everything upside down for the self-mind and basically means the
end for this part of whatever we are.

Distinction, just like consciousness, can't be really grasped by the
self-mind, because they are PRIMARY, while the self-mind is SECONDARY.

The self-mind is perceiving distinction-objects, distinction-thoughts,
distinction-feelings, distinction-speed, distinction-whatever, but
it is not perceiving "distinction" itself, as itself, and for-itself,
because distinction simply "is" just like consciousness simply "is."

While everything we perceive..."isn't" and this is why it is temporary
and tries to survive, because it isn't.

If something "is" it doesn't need to persist or survive, because it "is"
if something "isn't" it needs to survive or perish, this is why the
false-self tries to survive, and why our perceptions are a survival
mechanism, because our "self" that we think we are, does everything
to survive, by perceiving everything in relation to itself, and asking
the question...what does this "thing" mean to me? Should I run from
it or hug it, and try to get it in my bed, and bang it?

 

[basspirate]

I need to reread this later, I am super sleep-deprived. I am very fond of pondering the subject of reality/somethingness/nothingness.

Forgive me if I am restating things others have said but in my opinion;

who says time ever had to "start"? time only represents a value we assign to the linear progression of events in the universe since the big bang. our awareness of time, imo only exists due to our mortality.

i think there is only the "be" the great "is" (what a lot of people call God) and, i wholly agree, the separation between you, me, farts, thoughts, etc. is an illusion. i'm no bible thumping fundamentalist, but i think a infinitely higher consciousness would value these distinctions, if not for anything more than a matter of self-observation, thus we 'exist'. that's what i think all of these spiritual figures throughout history were getting at with the "all things are sacred, all things are holy" mentality

there is no nothing. nothing is only a concept. of course the nature of existence, the universe (or all universes) is infinite. in order for it to be finite, that would imply that there is a greater existent void that could contain a finite entity. even that void wouldn't be nothing as it would be a vessel for something.

i also agree that the universe is cyclical. i think once planck units are truly understood we are only going to find that there are yet infinitely smaller and smaller units that compose the makeup of existence. the cycle is infinitely graduated; there are infinitely larger and smaller units of existence...the reason that it is inifinite is because they are all actually just the same thing in the first place. just as there is the universe, galaxies, star systems, planets, continents, cities, neighborhoods, homes, families, individuals, organs, cells and infinitely on down (and larger from the beginning). humans are just another part of the cyclical nature of the universe. i think that within each of us at an unfathomably small level there are the vast wonders of the universe that we observe; inside you there very well be worlds full of conscious entities contemplating the same shit.

as for our reality, i think that term in itself is a complete misnomer. the word reality should be replaced with the term perspective as that's all we really have. the schizophrenic, the abstainer, the priest are simply subject to the perspective that their existence has manifested for them.

i guess for me, the big question is in trying to assure myself that anything exists at all. i am sitting here wishing i had a fat bowl of nuggets and a gross tummy from too much beer drinking last night, so i am leaning towards a yes on that. if that's true and we are all part of this larger, congruent fabric and the nature of existence is anything like described above, it would mean that all things exist simultaneously and all things are true. anything you can think of or imagine, probably would exist in some parallel universe.

ok, i gotta sleep-more later. cheers folks!

 

[HempKat]

Distinction is the function of consciousness, and because of this
it is an absolute truth. They are not separate...or distinct.

Consciousness = Distinction = Consciousness.

In other words, there is no distinction "distinction." Distinction simply "is" as-itself and for-itself, and not in relation to anything else.

The self mind perceives "distinctions" but they are not created by
the "self-mind" and this is a very important DISTINCTION in itself,
and what confuses many people. We are perceiving distinctions,
but these distinctions are a function of consciousness.

Distinction, just like consciousness, can't be really grasped by the
self-mind, because they are PRIMARY, while the self-mind is SECONDARY.

The self-mind is perceiving distinction-objects, distinction-thoughts,
distinction-feelings, distinction-speed, distinction-whatever, but
it is not perceiving "distinction" itself, as itself, and for-itself,
because distinction simply "is" just like consciousness simply "is."

While everything we perceive..."isn't" and this is why it is temporary
and tries to survive, because it isn't.

If something "is" it doesn't need to persist or survive, because it "is"
if something "isn't" it needs to survive or perish, this is why the
false-self tries to survive, and why our perceptions are a survival
mechanism, because our "self" that we think we are, does everything
to survive, by perceiving everything in relation to itself, and asking
the question...what does this "thing" mean to me? Should I run from
it or hug it, and try to get it in my bed, and bang it?

I guess we'll just have to disagree then because you seem to keep changing the equations such that you percieve yourself as right and anyone not saying "yes you are right" as being wrong.

Before you were saying that some-thing is no-thing until we make a distinction about it. Which we do thru perception. If you don't percieve it then for you it is not there. If something existed in a box but you didn't percieve it and I asked you what was in the box, you would say "nothing is in the box". It's only after you percieve it that it becomes real based on the distinction your mind made reflexively from your perception of it thru one or more senses.

Further two people can percieve the same thing and yet make two seperate and divergent distinctions. If distinction was an absolute then it would be the same for everyone.

 

[southflorida]

there is no nothing. nothing is only a concept. of course the nature of existence, the universe (or all universes) is infinite. in order for it to be finite, that would imply that there is a greater existent void that could contain a finite entity. even that void wouldn't be nothing as it would be a vessel for something.

BP...when you have the time, and are in better shape, make sure
to read the other posts in this thread. But, as far as nothing and
infinity being absolutely the same thing is...well true. Both nothing
and infinite have no beginning and no end, and can't be grasped
by the human mind, they can only be experienced as the truth by
anyone that makes the effort.

Nothing is not a concept. It is what exists. It is what always existed.
It is also what will always exist.

Before the first DISTINCTION was made what was there? Nothing.

Actually before the second distinction, because Distinction is the
first distinction, because it is itself...lol...but still, the foundation
of everything, and the true nature of everything is Nothing, and
this Nothing is Infinite, which is a paradox, but only for the finite
self-mind. Without the second distinction there is Nothing, and
since Consciousness is creating reality through Distinction, the
foundation and true nature of our experience is nothing.

Nothing is absolute and includes everything in it. Infinity is also
absolute and includes everything in it. This is why they are two
sides of one coin => the one nondual consciousness/being

...and we "are" this consciousness/being ourselves...lol

...and this is mind-boggling...but fundamentally and absolutely true!

 

[GMT]

Okay, GMT, I guess I will have to break it all down a little more, to
explain my perspective on all this.

remembering that persectives can be illsionary in their nature, please go ahead

Infinity and nothing are both absolutely the same thing, there is
no distinction between them, and they are not distinctions themselves.

They both have no beggining and no end, and this is why they
are Absolutes, they include everything into themselves.

they are very different things, nothing is an absence of anything, infinate is so much its impossible to quantify, they are the very opposites of each other, not the same thing.

Nothing is not "no thing" or "empty space" or an "absence of a thing"
or anything of that sort. Nothing is nothing...it is NO-DISTINCTION.

may I direct you to a good source for you to look up what words actually mean? try http://dictionary.reference.com

contrary to your statement that nothing is not no thing, it is in fact no thing.

"
noth·ing

   https://secure.reference.com/sso/register_pop.html?source=favorites/ˈnʌθ

ɪŋ/ Show Spelled[nuhth-ing] Show IPA
–noun 1. no thing; not anything; naught: to say nothing.





Word Origin & History

nothing

O.E. naþing, from nan "not one" (see none) + þing "thing." Nothingness "non-existence" first recorded c.1631.

...before the FIRST distinction...what was there? NOTHING


the foundation, or the true nature of reality is NOTHING. Reality
is reality, it is what it is, and yes, it is real. But the paradox, is that
the foundation, the true nature of reality is NOTHING.

not so much of a paradox as a self contradiction but go on

this is an absolute truth because in order for a distinction to
manifest...and thus create reality...there first has to be nothing,
there simply is no other way.

your making an assumption that what we percieve is all that there is. You are completely ignoring all of the other possibilities.
reality did not come from nothing, it came from something that existed before, but which changed into what it became.

Distinction = Reality, this is a fact simply. We only perceive objects
because they are DISTINCT from other objects, if everything was
one distinction, there would be nothing. Just think about that. If
everything was only water...or milk...or trichomes...or whatever
there would be NO-DISTINCTION, and this would be NOTHING...lol

again, perception is not existence, existence does not rely upon perception. ever stubbed your toe in the dark? did it hurt? did what you failed to percieve before your toe collided with it not exist?

This is tough to grasp in the beginning, but once you observe that
absolutely everything that you perceive in your reality is a distinction,
and if there was no distinction, no difference between one thing and
another, you would not be able to perceive it.

...the primary question is: What was there before the FIRST distinction?
This points straight the the truth and the foundation of everything!
And obviously, at least to me, the answer is NOTHING!

to make a distinction requires a mind, so to you, before there were people, there was nothing?

if you remove the self, or perception, which are both distinctions,
there will be no reality, there will be NOTHING, which is the foundation
and the true nature of everything. So the paradox, is that while
we do perceive reality, and the objects that we do perceive are
there, the foundation, the true nature, or WHAT makes it all possible
is NOTHING. Because in order for something to exist, which is by
definition a DISTINCTION, there first has to be NOTHING, which
is no-distinction.

So before distinction, which is SECONDARY, there is nothing, which
is PRIMARY. If you are not grasping this, it is because it takes a little
contemplation, since it can't be grasped by the intellect, this has to
be experienced, otherwise the mind will try to DENY these distinctions,
and because of that, it will not PERCEIVE it.

ah thanks for explaining that, I was trying to percieve it with my mind, that must be where I'm going wrong. My mind tells me your talking nonsense, yet my experience is that I'm responding to it, I am confused by this I will admit.

We perceive DISTINCTIONS, things that are different from each other,
and you can only know what something is, in relation to what it's NOT.

You can't know what something is for-itself, and as-itself, this is
not-known, and can't be known. You know something by perceiving
the difference, and seeing it as DISTINCT from everything that is
around it, and realtive to it. There are NO exceptions!



Consciousness and Distinction are Primary! Perception of distinction
is SECONDARY. This perception of the distinction is reality, so it
is also SECONDARY. The paradox is that we as human BEINGS are
this consciousness, and are creating these DISTINCTIONS, so our
true nature is NOTHING,

hmmm, if we exist, we are something, not nothing.

but we are creating SOMETHING/REALITY

no we are real, we do not create reality, we experience our perceptions of what is there, we dont create what is there

by manifesting DISTINCTIONS and then perceiving them through
our perceptions, which are also DISTINCTIONS. They are the
distinctions sight, sound, smell, feel, etc.

EVERYTHING is distinction, but the true nature and foundation
of distinction is nothing, because distinction is a function of
Consciousness, and thus is not distinct from it.

And what we perceive as reality is basically the work of consciousness
and distinction, that are simultaneously manifesting what it "itself"
is observing through us. And since we are this Consciousness/Being,
basically we are Consciousness that is observing itself through
Distinctions.

please dont tell me I'm wasting all this time on a thread that is leading to a statement about some sort of introspective diety examining his own belly button by imagining us looking at it for him.

So it is Nothing observing Nothing, and making it
look like it is Something. And this is Real, as in it is objectively there
and can be perceived (seen, felt, touched, etc.) but still the
true nature of this is that Consciousness is perceiving (seeing, feeling, touching, etc) ITSELF...lol

oh no

It just has to go through this weird-ass process because it is
Nothing, Nodual, Not-Separate, and because of this in order to
observe itself, it has to do this through DISTINCTIONS, and making
things different/distinct from each other.

But, the most important thing to grasp, is that while everything is
DISTINCT, it is NOT separate, it is nondual, it is only distinct and
different, but is all one EXPERIENCE, and this is why The Present
Moment, the Here and Now, is also an Absolute, and is also this
Consciousness.

Just think about this question: Have you ever been ANYWHERE
except in the present moment? Even if you thought about the
past, or imagined the future, you still ALWAYS have done this
in the PRESENT MOMENT/THE HERE AND NOW, and there is no
exceptions to this...this is ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

you mean was there a magnificent time in which I hadnt experienced this thread, yes, there was.

So the Present Moment/Consciousness/Distinction are what create
Everything that we call reality...and all these Absolute truths are
at their core...NOTHING/INFINITY, which as I explained in the
beginning the same thing...no beginning...no end

Oh Please, please please please let there be an end

...and this part
can only be personally experienced...it can't be believed by the
mind/intellect...because the mind/intellect is a distinction that is
relative to what it is NOT.

...if you read through this slowly, you will see the structure of this
whole process, and it is something I have experienced, it is not
a "concept" that I created using my self-mind. I don't believe it
as a human through the mind/intellect, because it is not
believable,

you said it

and the mind/intellect obviously wasn't designed
to perceive the truth.

or designed at all for that matter, it merely evolved

Truth can only be experienced, and this is
why when contemplating this, it is a good idea to observe your
experience as it is happening in the PRESENT MOMENT.

The here and now is the first key to these absolute truths. At least,
imo...it is the easiest thing to observe and grasp, and from there it
slowly becomes something that you are more and more conscious of.

 

[GMT]

Depends how you define living, believe in reincarnation and you are fine


Buddhists would say.. this body or that body doesnt matter, intelligence is immortal

ah actually no. reincarnation is misunderstood. it isnt a thing that happens after your family bury or burn your old boddy, but rather something that is happening throughout your existence, or your lifetime. I am not the same GMT i was before i read this thread, as I now have the added experience of having read it. therefore the old GMT is now gone and a new one is reincarnated as a result of this experience.

 

[fourandtwenty]

yeah DMT is one drug I really want to try. I have heard some marvellous stories about it and wish to experience it myself. I have heard it is very useful if one wishes to perceive deeper into the nature of Reality. apparently it can also cure heroin addiction after one dose..or two or three depending on the method used to consume. The levels of DMT are greatly depleted in the modern western person leading to depression and a lack of the old 'sparkle' that makes life joyfull. hmm....this is just stuff I've read peoples...I have yet to try it out but intend to...

Does anyone know how to get DMT if you live in Australia?

on topic: A 'Distinction creates reality' not a fan of the word per se but inherent in the concept is the idea that reality is subjective not objective, something the poster who visited the loony bin realized when observing a patients hallucinations.

how would you create your reality if you did not know how to talk?, how to think using learned words/symbols? reality would still be there albeit in a different form...fascinating stuff

The meaning of Life is FUN and LEARNING

 

[arcticsun]

ah actually no. reincarnation is misunderstood. it isnt a thing that happens after your family bury or burn your old boddy, but rather something that is happening throughout your existence, or your lifetime. I am not the same GMT i was before i read this thread, as I now have the added experience of having read it. therefore the old GMT is now gone and a new one is reincarnated as a result of this experience.

I see.. do you stop reincarnating when your body dies?

 

[Frozenguy]

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Have been away for a while, contemplating the nature of reality,
and have become "aware" of a few things. This is for all the "haters"
and ALSO for the folks that are on the path toward the "ultimate truth."
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the primary thing for you to grasp: Your "experience" of "absolutely"
everything, and in "every way," is a matter of DISTINCTION

Stop making "distinctions" and you will experience "NO-THING" for yourself.

What we perceive and the "nature" of reality is "distinction"

...in other words...without DISTINCTION....there is...NO-THING...period!

...and there is no way that there can be SOMETHING...without distinction!

...by the way this is why it is called "SOME-THING" and not "NO-THING"

...DISTINCTION is NOT a concept...it is the "core-truth"...and you can experience it
for yourself...if it is something you truly want!

...this can be a "scary" realization, and it is not what the majority of people
have experienced as "enlightnment" or whatever they are calling it!

...the nature of everything is distinction...and "no-distinction" = "NO-THING"

...don't believe me? then notice that the only reason you are perceiving
SOMETHING/ANYTHING/EVERYTHING right now in this moment is that
you are making DISTINCTIONS between all the things you are perceiving.

...if you stop doing this...there will be...NO-THING...which is what BEING "IS"

...the funny thing is that this can't even be argued, because it is the "core" truth,
but obviously, there are, as always, people that will try using "their distinctions"
to argue that "no-distinction" is NOT "no-thing." For me, personally, it will be a pleasure
to see what these folks can bring to the table...especially...since there is "no-table."

Dammit you got into my Sour Bubble stash didn't you ..


Anyways, Just because you cease to distinguish two objects from one another, doesn't mean they cease to exist.

Just because you can alter your perception of reality, doesn't mean you alter reality itself.

 

[GMT]

unfortunately, yes.

Just as many christians misunderstand or misrepresent what the bible says, and muslims the koran, many budhists misrepresent the teachings of their pholosophy, (I distinguish it that way as there is no diety to believe in) and many misunderstand the concept, but the truth is when your body can no longer regenerate its cells, you die for the last time.

 

[Frozenguy]

unfortunately, yes.

Just as many christians misunderstand or misrepresent what the bible says, and muslims the koran, many budhists misrepresent the teachings of their pholosophy, (I distinguish it that way as there is no diety to believe in) and many misunderstand the concept, but the truth is when your body can no longer regenerate its cells, you die for the last time.

Can I ask you what you think stops us from being able to rejuvenate our own life, if we are able to supply it to a newborn?

 

[GMT]

its a good question, there is a type of fish that after it breeds, reverts to its juvenile state, and then ages again to breed. The only reason they dont fill the seas is they still get eaten by bigger fish. I cant remember the name, but I'm sure you could google it.
To me I suspect its to do with the errors that occur during the rewriting of our dna sequence as our cells regenerate, though there are also theories relating to an ageing gene that would need to be switched off. Theoretically it is possible for beings to live until they are killed. Evolutionarily speaking though it isn't in the interests of a species to develop that ability unless it has numerous preditors to control their numbers. Such a species would quickly run out of food to eat without population control measures.

I have to answer you honestly though, and give a simple I don't know.

 

[arcticsun]

unfortunately, yes.

Just as many christians misunderstand or misrepresent what the bible says, and muslims the koran, many budhists misrepresent the teachings of their pholosophy, (I distinguish it that way as there is no diety to believe in) and many misunderstand the concept, but the truth is when your body can no longer regenerate its cells, you die for the last time.

I dont understand why you say its misunderstood with such confidence.


Afterall there is many folklore tales with humans who transforms into animals and of animated animal spirits in human form or spirits manifesting in any form. Point being that in this concept of thought, intelligence does not linger in matter, but rather the other way around. The intelligence or "spirit" animates the body. Its not misunderstood, its just that its hard to imagine from our materially obsessed perspective. Different, not misunderstood by anyone but us.

Everything is alive in folklore, there are walking and talking trees, the mountains are trolls etc etc. There is a spirit with an intelligence and a consciousness, even a personality in every element of nature in folklore. This folklore is much alike the Eastern religions. A reincarnation is an animation of the spirit, in any body.

 

[GMT]

well to put it simply, buddhism rests upon the teachings of the buddha, and he said so, so it is right. To mis teach the teachings of the buddha is to either misunderstand or misrepresent or both. folk law is different, i have no respect for that what so ever.

 

[southflorida]

Anyways, Just because you cease to distinguish two objects from one another, doesn't mean they cease to exist.

really, how do you know? have you ever ceased to distinguish two
objects and not see a distinction between them, and they remained?
can you at least give me one example?

Just because you can alter your perception of reality, doesn't mean you alter reality itself.

Altering perception happens through the mind, creating reality happens
through distinctions which are part of consciousness. Once again
there is a distinction between perception, and distinction, they
are two different things. They are distinct, but they are not separate,
and this is hard to understand, it can only be experienced through
personal experience.

Just look at nature outside, and while perceiving it, ask yourself,
what is creating the distinction/differences between everything
that I am perceiving?

And there is also a difference between and object, and a concept
of an object, they are also distinct. One is objective, and one is
simply a concept created by the mind.

 

[arcticsun]

well to put it simply, buddhism rests upon the teachings of the buddha, and he said so, so it is right. To mis teach the teachings of the buddha is to either misunderstand or misrepresent or both. folk law is different, i have no respect for that what so ever.

Folklore not law.. old folk stories with an ethic twist intended to teach you something about the way of the world.

 

[southflorida]

GMT...the things I'm writing about are unbeliveable. But, these
have been my experiences, and I'm trying to put into words, what
my current perspective is.

You have to agree with one thing: if reality didn't look 100% real
to us as human beings, we would serious doubt about it, and if
it continued to be this way, we could go crazy. This is probably
happens to many folks that end up in a looney bin.

Just do me a small favor. When you get really high, just observe
everything around you and while being totally immersed in the
Present Moment ask yourself: "What is making these distinctions,
and why is everything distinct from everything else?" and also
"What was there before I made any distinctions in my life? and
is it possible that I don't know anything as it "is" but only in relation
to other things?" And I am not talking about knowing it as a word,
but for what it is without the word. Obviously, you understand
that words are only what we call "objects" that are distinct from
other objects...and this is why we need words.