Is Veritical the most efficient set-up?

[louie]

So I'm looking to switch up my set-up and have been reading up on different methods. So is vertical the most efficient system to achieve the highest gram per watt ratio?

 

[Throwgar]

No. Vertical is more effecient plant per square foot, not yield per sq/ft. After you fit twice as many plants in your space than traditional growers, you'll still have all the same obsticles in your way as everyone else in achieving high gram per watt ratio. (Not watt per gram, that's like gallons per mile)

The most effecient method to maximize yield is probably some kind of aeroponics system. You could still stadium grow it, that will help you get more plants in there, but you still need to "power" them.

 

[Ursus]

No. Vertical is more effecient plant per square foot, not yield per sq/ft. After you fit twice as many plants in your space than traditional growers, you'll still have all the same obsticles in your way as everyone else in achieving high gram per watt ratio. (Not watt per gram, that's like gallons per mile)

The most effecient method to maximize yield is probably some kind of aeroponics system. You could still stadium grow it, that will help you get more plants in there, but you still need to "power" them.

If you can fit more plants efficiently into less room, you are going to increase your yield. It's best to employ a number of different methods. It's best to try a few "yield increasing" techniques and see which one you like. More commonly for me and other people, a simple scrog seems to do the trick

 

[catman]

So is vertical the most efficient system to achieve the highest gram per watt ratio?

Yes. Many people also find it it the easiest way too.

 

[Maj.Cottonmouth]

When I see people like Heath Robinson pushing 2.5 grams per watt doing vertical trees I would have to say yes, yes it is more efficient. A couple links for you.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=181239

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=189454&highlight=vertical

 

[BlueHaze]

I love vertical
https://www.icmag.com/ic/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=164754&ppuser=576
https://www.icmag.com/ic/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=335252&ppuser=576
https://www.icmag.com/ic/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=338542&ppuser=576

 

[louie]

Thanks for the comments and links guys! Yeah I've never really thought too much about going vertical until seeing threads like Heath's. Thats pretty amazing stuff! Now if considering all the variables and looking at the total yield one would get in say a years time, which do you think would be more efficient: scrog or vertical? It seems like the downfall to vertical is that you would need to veg longer and thus would lose (x) amount of weeks over the course of a year. And when adding that extra veg time up it seems like you could lose an entire flowering period; say with vertical you could get 4 crops a year (vegging each crop for say 4-6 weeks to get them big enough to maximize the space and light in a vertical tree set up; where doing a scrog set up you wouldn't have to veg as long and could pull off say 5 crops a year with the same strain. I just wonder if you one would yield more a span of say a year with the same strain, light wattage, and environment. I've always done a scrog myself, but if I can be more efficient a yield more in a vertical set-up, it would be a no brainer to switch. hmmmmm......

 

[HydroJen]

I think ur onto something with your harvests per year...aka Lbs/year

...but hey, I'm a tray hugger...

 

[DevilWeed]

Just a comment on losing time for longer vegging. I grow trees for some of my stuff. I just start them in phases so my flower room is always full. I guess your stuck if you only have one room/light...

 

[HydroJen]

That's a great system. I love stanky jungles.
It is terribly limiting with a single garden, but I was think more about being stuck with the electric bill...

 

[Bush Dr]

It seems like the downfall to vertical is that you would need to veg longer

Why?

I know several vertical growers who don't veg at all, one just got 440 gms off his 400 watt scrogged vertically

Ever heard of a veg space? .......

I take cuts 3 weeks into flower, which are perfect 5 weeks later to go into flower

Vertical vegging is real fast to get them to the height you want .... you should try it

BD

 

[chameleonsc]

vertical is more efficient and should lead to larger yields for the reasons listed above and because of light intensity.

the light's intensity decreases at an exponential rate. the best light is 10-14" from the bulb (1000w). So, if you have a vertical bulb, the 10-14" around the bulb will all receive the best light coming off the bulb. In a horizontal setup, the light leaving the top of the bulb has to travel twice as far to get the plants and is only 1/4 as intense. follow?

 

[cyat]

I've done both several tmes, and still can't decide.more plants = smaller plants, Wide plants get shaded on the inside when rotated, in vert stadium the back doesnt grow, I also find it harder to work around the bare bulbs(2 glasses), and its harder to inspect the plants.I'm thinking scrog be be the winner, but have yet to try.I don't think Heath's yields are from vert bulbs alone, or his nutrients, it's mainly his hydro system.I am running his design to a tee and these plants are under a t5, and crushing my coco plants under 600ps in every way(in veg.)I'm still undecided, maybe depends on the space and system you have and how it all interacts together?

 

[simos]

It seems like the downfall to vertical is that you would need to veg longer and thus would lose (x) amount of weeks over the course of a year. hmmmmm......

It depends on what kind of "vertical" you're talking about. Do you just want to hang bare bulbs vertically and run a more conventional tree grow, or do you want to build a multi-tiered system?

With a stadium/coliseum you definitely wouldn't have to veg that long. With a vertical hydro or aero system you could easily run a vertical SOG of freshly-rooted cuttings.

I suppose it really depends on how much work you want to put into the build. If efficiency is your ultimate goal, you'll benefit from the most elegant system possible as well as rigorous attention to detail in the build.

Google "Heaths flooded tube vertical" to read the fabled thread where the master approached 3 grams per watt. I'd provide a link, but it's on another grow site (RIU). To get an idea of what it looks like without digging through the thread, here's a link to a video someone put together with the photos from the aforementioned thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Z1-q2cZes

Since you're already a scrogger, perhaps it would be wise to start with a vertical scrog, a la Selfhemployed: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=185081. A variation on his system with more levels and greater plant counts would solve your veg time worries.

And to echo what others have said here: YES, vertical systems have the potential for the greatest achievable efficiency.

Cheers

 

[Haps]

Vert can be very effective, but it is trickier to achieve that, or was in my experience. Also, I have mold issues if plants get over half pound, so I keep them at 4-6, which works fine hort. Bottom line, used effectively either can win, it is just harder to do vert effectively.

 

[DHF]

Although I`ve never grown with anything but vertical bare bulbs , I`ve gotta say that the easiest and most efficient setup would haveta be straight ebb and flow SOG tables with horizontal air-cooled 1000 watters above each 4 x 4......since plant numbers dictate yield........

Got Growbro`s on the left coast that have clone factories and sell to the clubs........They run well over 250 fully rooted cuts straight flip 12/12 and pull right at 4 lbs per 1000 watt fixture regularly on 4 x 8 flood tables.........Been doin it for yrs ......

Of course it`s strain dependent and grower skill/experience to be able ta pack that many plants in 32 sq ft without em chokin each other out for light and environment....but...it`s doable.....

As Brutha Haps stated Vert is more complicated , but the rewards are on up there once dialed........

All in how many plants you`re willing to pack side by side , in front and back of or , above and below....otherwise vegtime gets involved with bigger plants and that`s less crops per yr , so there`s trade off`s.........more plants no vegtime.........less plants more vegtime to compensate for the bottom line yields....

Peace.....DHF...........

 

[THCV]

i've done both. i can't stand the light in my eyes in vert. i had a horizontal room 6kw that i turned into vert for a few cycles. once i went back to horiz i was sooo much happier--those fucking bulbs are bright and having them in your eyes whenever you are in the room gets old fast. once i switched back i much preferred it. but i didn't really give it enough cycles to get the massive yields it is supposed to give, got too annoyed by room layout and bright ass bulbs, plus i get big yields of A++ kush horizontally so if it ain't broke...why did i try to fix it? Well, you know, i'm a grower. It did look cool, though, from a design perspective.

 

[]A[Boss]

wear sunglasses you fucking idiot

 

[Mr Celsius]

Everyone should goto this when considering growing vertically. Once that mountain is tackled.... vertical growing is the most efficient way to grow a lower plant number and get a high gram/w/h or gram/w.

SOG's are king with certain strains and good environment.

You could grow 4 plants vertically and get up to 12 pounds with 3600w or you could grow 256 plants and get 8 pounds off of 4000w in a SOG.

Yields per year of 4 plants: 4 x 12lbs = 48 lbs

Yields per year of 256 plants: 6 (potentially, 5 is more realistic) x 8 = 48 lbs.

Electricity used for 4 plants, including 4 months total veg at 18 hours and 8 months total flower at 12 hours: 18114KW/H

Electricity used for 256 plants, including 12 months of 12 hours flowering: 17280KW/H

I'd probably pick the 4 plants every time, just for peace of mind and not having to take 256 clones every 2 months. I didn't factor in veg wattage for the SOG setup, so I think the KW/h is probably close to the same.

The downside is, if you lose 1 plant in the vertical setup, you're negating 25% of that harvest.

Everything in life has its pros and cons.

Edit:

The vertical setup is Krusty's classic 10'x10'

X = light
O = plant

X O X
O X O
X O X

The outside corner lights are 600w hps and the middle light is 1000w MH

 

[]A[Boss]

but do those lights stagger in krusty style?