Merkel says German multi-cultural society has failed

[ibjamming]

So, what do you think...pretty interesting no matter which side you're on. I personally agree with them and I've been saying it for years... You can't just throw people with radically different ideas about how society should run together and expect it will end well.

BERLIN (AFP) – Germany's attempt to create a multi-cultural society has failed completely, Chancellor Angela Merkel said at the weekend, calling on the country's immigrants to learn German and adopt Christian values.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101017...ionimmigration

Here's the story...

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BERLIN (AFP) – Germany's attempt to create a multi-cultural society has failed completely, Chancellor Angela Merkel said at the weekend, calling on the country's immigrants to learn German and adopt Christian values.

Merkel weighed in for the first time in a blistering debate sparked by a central bank board member saying the country was being made "more stupid" by poorly educated and unproductive Muslim migrants.

"Multikulti", the concept that "we are now living side by side and are happy about it," does not work, Merkel told a meeting of younger members of her conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU) party at Potsdam near Berlin.

"This approach has failed, totally," she said, adding that immigrants should integrate and adopt Germany's culture and values.

"We feel tied to Christian values. Those who don't accept them don't have a place here," said the chancellor.

"Subsidising immigrants" isn't sufficient, Germany has the right to "make demands" on them, she added, such as mastering the language of Goethe and abandoning practices such as forced marriages.

Merkel spoke a week after talks with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan in which they pledged to do more to improve the often poor integration record of Germany's 2.5-million-strong Turkish community.

Turkish President Abdullah Gul, in a weekend interview, also urged the Turkish community living in Germany to master the language of their adopted country.

"When one doesn't speak the language of the country in which one lives that doesn't serve anyone, neither the person concerned, the country, nor the society," the Turkish president told the Suedeutsche Zeitung.

"That is why I tell them at every opportunity that they should learn German, and speak it fluently and without an accent. That should start at nurseries."

German President Christian Wulff was due for a five-day visit to Turkey and talks with the country's leaders on Monday.

The immigration debate has at times threatened to split Merkel's conservative party, and she made noises to both wings of the debate.

While saying that the government needed to encourage the training of Muslim clerics in Germany, Merkel said "Islam is part of Germany", echoeing the recent comments of Wulff, a liberal voice in the party.

Horst Seehofer, the leader of the CDU's Bavarian sister party, CSU, who represents the right-wing, recently said Germany did not "need more immigrants from different cultures like the Turks and Arabs" who are "more difficult" to integrate.

While warning against "immigration that weighs down on our social system", Merkel said Germany needed specialists from overseas to keep the pace of its economic development.

According to the head of the German chamber of commerce and industry, Hans Heinrich Driftmann, Germany is in urgent need of about 400,000 engineers and qualified workers, whose lack is knocking about one percent off the country's growth rate.

The integration of Muslims has been a hot button issue since August when a member of Germany's central bank sparked outrage by saying the country was being made "more stupid" by poorly educated and unproductive Muslim migrants with headscarves.

The banker, Thilo Sarrazin, has since resigned but his book on the subject -- "Germany Does Itself In" -- has flown off the shelves, and polls showed considerable sympathy for some of his views.

A recent study by the Friedrich Ebert Foundation think tank showed around one-third of Germans feel the country is being "over-run by foreigners" and the same percentage feel foreigners should be sent home when jobs are scarce.

Nearly 60 percent of the 2,411 people polled thought the around four million Muslims in Germany should have their religious practices "significantly curbed."

Far-right attitudes are found not only at the extremes of German society, but "to a worrying degree at the centre of society," the think tank said in its report.

"Hardly eight weeks have passed since publication of Sarrazin's theory of decline, and the longer the debate continues to a lower level it falls," the weekly Der Spiegel commented Sunday.

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[BrainSellz]

"This approach has failed, totally," she said, adding that immigrants should integrate and adopt Germany's culture and values.

"We feel tied to Christian values. Those who don't accept them don't have a place here," said the chancellor.
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I dont know much about Germany however it seems like that is asking an awful lot, maybe not I dunno. Either way it definitely seems like they have a problem on their hands.

 

[arcticsun]

The multi cultural society has not failed, it has just failed to separate religion from politics and allowed religious extremism to flourish.


The fascist movements in the middle east has its roots in nazi Germany by the way, this is why Germany has such huge problems dealing with the wave of new immigrants. Many are refugees from fascist countries. Hitler himself was deeply religious and the nazi movement was spurred on by religious ideology.

Its a ghost that haunts them, they are not yet finished with the aftermath of what happened.

 

[In~Plain~Site]

Amazing that when it's the will of the people who actually live there, that it somehow morphs into religious extremism.

Some of you people are like broken fucking records

I know, the indigenious folks should just eat shit and take it in the ass for the benefit of the new-comers

 

[arcticsun]

Amazing that when it's the will of the people who actually live there, that it somehow morphs into religious extremism.

Some of you people are like broken fucking records

I know, the indigenous folks should just eat shit and take it in the ass for the benefit of the new-comers

Germany has over 80 million inhabitants, 4 million Muslims is not a huge amount considering Europe borders to the Arab states in the east.


Europe needs to maintain a good cultural relationship with the middle east in order to ensure its trading routes and position.

 

[Cojito]

I know, the indigenious folks should just eat shit and take it in the ass for the benefit of the new-comers

lol ah yes, those poor, long suffering, far-right natives. if only they still had Zyklon B on hand.

 

[In~Plain~Site]

Germany has over 80 million inhabitants, 4 million Muslims is not a huge amount considering Europe borders to the Arab states in the east.


Europe needs to maintain a good cultural relationship with the middle east in order to ensure its trading routes and position.

How convienent, once again, that you'd realign the Republic of Germany to that of the EU.

You were saying about borders?

Trade is a 2-way street, as is acclimation to a new, and gracious, host nation.

lol ah yes, those poor, long suffering, far-right natives. if only they still had Zyklon B on hand.

Yeah, isn't it just too bad that the majority believe in what they choose, by their own free will.

God forbid.


I wouldn't expect anything less than a Zyklon/straw man argument from someone who hails from Coo-ba.




Just curious, how is the free-will of the people working out for them down their in Cuba anyway?

New Leader = Good times...amirite?

If only Cuba could feel the LOVE from throngs of new inhabitants wanting to change it...wait, that wouldn't be so bad in your case.



Anyhoo...on to France with their new law

 

[useit]

i love the multi-cultural society!
with blond hair and blue-eyed i think merkel is not my mother..

berlin rocks

 

[arcticsun]

How convienent, once again, that you'd realign the Republic of Germany to that of the EU.

You were saying about borders?

Trade is a 2-way street, as is acclimation to a new, and gracious, host nation.

Great, you think I dont know the difference between EU and Germany?


If you looked at a world map sometimes instead of just a local map of Germany and the surrounding states you would see that its not far from Germany to the middle east and central Eur-Asian states.

Furthermore if you knew anything about German history and culture, you would know that Germany has had a number of cultural and political colonies in central Asian and middle eastern states for a very long time.

 

[In~Plain~Site]

Great, you think I dont know the difference between EU and Germany?


If you looked at a world map sometimes instead of just a local map of Germany and the surrounding states you would see that its not far from Germany to the middle east and central Eur-Asian states.

Furthermore if you knew anything about German history and culture, you would know that Germany has had a number of cultural and political colonies in central Asian and middle eastern states for a very long time.

As did MANY of the sovereign nations of the world throughout history...I'm not sure what your point is.

And I'm not quite sure where you're going with the whole trade thing or how exactly it plays a major role in this issue.

So if I/we were to buy into your line of thought, old/non-existent outposts of a bygone era should influence modern day trade/policy-making?

Doesn't make any sense...sorry.

As I said, trade is a two-way, us & them, give and take.

 

[Maria_Vanessa]

Amazing that when it's the will of the people who actually live there, that it somehow morphs into religious extremism.

Some of you people are like broken fucking records

I know, the indigenious folks should just eat shit and take it in the ass for the benefit of the new-comers

That what the colonists and their European descendants coming to America were expecting.

Seriously, integration is a two way street. If they want immigrants to give up their own ethnic identitieses for German identities, then the government should stop marginalizing immigrants and treating like cheap labor when the economy is good and using them as scapegoats when the economy is bad. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[In~Plain~Site]

Too bad, life ain't fair and not everyone is meant to 'make it'

Too bad, life ain't fair and not everyone is meant to 'make it'

That what the colonists and their European descendants coming to America were expecting.

Seriously, integration is a two way street. If they want immigrants to give up their own ethnic identitieses for German identities, then the government should stop marginalizing immigrants and treating like cheap labor when the economy is good and using them as scapegoats when the economy is bad. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

It's called paying dues.

Everyone did it, some more than others.

If things were so peachy-fucking-keen if their home countries, they wouldn't have these issues.

Oh that's right, they get hung, shot or worse for that at home.

Doesn't seem like much of a trade off from where I sit...you know, living your dream, with an emphasis on 'living'

You can pidgeon-hole it anyway you like, but the real winners are those that get out from under their own oppressive nations.

Shit, the things that get taken for granted...more,more,more.

3 years ago you were hiding in a hole, now you want your own entrance at the mall as to not mix with the 'unbelievers'

In anyone marginalizes anyone, it's the sects doing it to themselves.Terrorists couldn't EXIST if their own kind would stand with the rest of the civilized world against them.That's what this is all about.

Unfuckingbelievable.

 

[Maria_Vanessa]

It's called paying dues.

Everyone did it, some more than others.

If things were so peachy-fucking-keen if their home countries, they wouldn't have these issues.

Oh that's right, they get hung, shot or worse for that at home.

Doesn't seem like much of a trade off from where I sit...you know, living your dream, with an emphasis on 'living'

You can pidgeon-hole it anyway you like, but the real winners are those that get out from under their own oppressive nations.

Shit, the things that get taken for granted...more,more,more.

3 years ago you were hiding in a hole, now you want your own entrance at the mall as to not mix with the 'unbelievers'

In anyone marginalizes anyone, it's the sects doing it to themselves.Terrorists couldn't EXIST if their own kind would stand with the rest of the civilized world against them.That's what this is all about.

Unfuckingbelievable.

I'm sorry, but I find your statements to be scattered all over the place attempting to address every subjects that aren't related.

Maybe it's that you are under the assumptions that hundreds of thousands of people are moving into Germany because every single one of them are escaping some sort of persecution. Is that it? If that is the case, it would wrong to stereotype such a large amount of people in that manner.

I don't know how terrorism come into this conversation, because it's not mention in the article. Terrorism comes in all forms, from all religions and all races. Terrorism does not equate anyone from a specific region or religion in this the world. Just ask the people in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

I really detest these the statements in this article made by politicians because all it does is play upon the unfounded, racist and ethnic fears of a voting public, especially when election time is near.

 

[Maria_Vanessa]

This article is so ridiculous and sad. Immigrants are worldwide equivalent of the red-headed stepchild. And it can be summed up in a quote from the same article.

A recent study by the Friedrich Ebert Foundation think tank showed around one-third of Germans feel the country is being "over-run by foreigners" and the same percentage feel foreigners should be sent home when jobs are scarce.

So in order words, when times are good, it's okay to be "Multikulti", because companies can then hire cheap labor, instead of hiring and paying a German citizen. But now that the economy has slowed, Germany is suddently identifying itself as a "Christian" nation, despite the fact that Christians all over the world have committed plenty of atrocities and terroristic acts in the name of a Christian God. Now foreigners have to go home and should go home until it is time that their cheap labour will be needed again.

I can't help but to shake my head in disbelieve because this article almost functions as an endorsement for segregation. And what is worse is that people are playing right into the hands of a politicians who will say and do anything to stay in power. A politician is a politician is a politician, no matter what country they are from.

 

[arcticsun]

As did MANY of the sovereign nations of the world throughout history...I'm not sure what your point is.

And I'm not quite sure where you're going with the whole trade thing or how exactly it plays a major role in this issue.

So if I/we were to buy into your line of thought, old/non-existent outposts of a bygone era should influence modern day trade/policy-making?

Dont you think the history of and culture of trading should influence modern day trade policies? Are you kidding me? You dont think it helps to have a good hookup and good connections in the trading world?


Have you ever scored and/or sold weed?

But the point was that you put up a map of Germany to show me that it didnt border to any Muslim countries, im telling you that the middle east is not far away at all and considering the long history Germany has with trading in east Europe and the middle east. 4 million Muslims out of a population of 80 million people is not a huge amount of people if we look at the great number of Muslims in the world. The problem is rather that these people tend to end up in a concentrated area.

Doesn't make any sense...sorry.

As I said, trade is a two-way, us & them, give and take.

A lot of things does not make sense to you it seems, trade is not a two way, its an operation that requires a lot of effort in a multi faceted operation, from the gathering of resources to the manufacturing of product to advertisement and taxation to regulation etc etc... before it eventually makes it to the consumer there has been a great deal of logistical effort, logistics that can only be made through human relations.

There is a great number of straw men and lobbyists working to influence trading today, we need allies to play the world market and on this market, the middle east is a very important crossway for transportation aswell as being rich in resources and very fertile.


We may not like to admit it, but our culture in the west derives from the middle east, the Arab countries are culturally and geographically very close to us. We dont have to go very far back in time to find very similar customs among western Europeans as we see with people coming from the middle east and central Asia today.


I find that the immigrants we have in Europe today is not the gravest threat to our society, the political situation in the middle east is much more worrying to me then the immigrants on the streets in Europe. Im worried another great war may emerge out of the situation and i think we should be careful with mass deportations and any type of generalizing treatment of any type of group at these times..


I honestly think Angela Merkel is a weak **** for going public with such a statement at these times. A statement only intended to please the far right and a statement that can only lead to further separation rather the reconciliation. I also think that its a rhetorically weak statement that i am sure will be a stain on the prime ministers political memory, she will be remembered for it, but not in a good way.

 

[Maria_Vanessa]

Dont you think the history of and culture of trading should influence modern day trade policies? Are you kidding me? You dont think it helps to have a good hookup and good connections in the trading world?


Have you ever scored and/or sold weed?

But the point was that you put up a map of Germany to show me that it didnt border to any Muslim countries, im telling you that the middle east is not far away at all and considering the long history Germany has with trading in east Europe and the middle east. 4 million Muslims out of a population of 80 million people is not a huge amount of people if we look at the great number of Muslims in the world. The problem is rather that these people tend to end up in a concentrated area.





A lot of things does not make sense to you it seems, trade is not a two way, its an operation that requires a lot of effort in a multi faceted operation, from the gathering of resources to the manufacturing of product to advertisement and taxation to regulation etc etc... before it eventually makes it to the consumer there has been a great deal of logistical effort, logistics that can only be made through human relations.

There is a great number of straw men and lobbyists working to influence trading today, we need allies to play the world market and on this market, the middle east is a very important crossway for transportation aswell as being rich in resources and very fertile.


We may not like to admit it, but our culture in the west derives from the middle east, the Arab countries are culturally and geographically very close to us. We dont have to go very far back in time to find very similar customs among western Europeans as we see with people coming from the middle east and central Asia today.


I find that the immigrants we have in Europe today is not the gravest threat to our society, the political situation in the middle east is much more worrying to me then the immigrants on the streets in Europe. Im worried another great war may emerge out of the situation and i think we should be careful with mass deportations and any type of generalizing treatment of any type of group at these times..


I honestly think Angela Merkel is a weak **** for going public with such a statement at these times. A statement only intended to please the far right and a statement that can only lead to further separation rather the reconciliation. I also think that its a rhetorically weak statement that i am sure will be a stain on the prime ministers political memory, she will be remembered for it, but not in a good way.

Thank you. The most important thing to always keep in mind is that politicians are making these statements to benefit themselves. The same politicians that look the other way when companies hire immigrants because they can pay them wages that are significantly than hiring lifelong citizens.

Immigrants are always the scapegoats, but the ones that directly benefit from immigrants are never criticized or villified at all.

 

[Kush_Master]

its actually pretty brave from merkel to admit this.
germany has totally fucked up on its immigration policies for decades but politicians always tried to sell it as a good thing and a success model. its very surprising to hear something different now.

problem in germany is that german government has systematically pulled immigrants from very low social classes in their origin countries for cheap labour and expected them to leave after a period of time again. were talking about illiterate farmers from anatolya and the likes here. it backfires now (and has long been) because ppl did not leave. instead they built subcultures, lots of older folks cant even speak german, low education, lots of crime and violence etc etc.

the process has been fueled by feelings of shame because of german nazi history and overt political correctness. not too long ago you couldnt even say things like this without being called a nazi its only recently that a public debate has started because we got some real problems here with immigrants. its a real fuckup

btw if you go to turkey for example and ask about the turkish ppl in germany, the ppl will tell you that they are all scum and they dont want to be associated with them.

 

[LonelyNerd]

You can't just throw people with radically different ideas about how society should run together and expect it will end well.

figured this is happening elsewhere too. Right now our country is having a bitch about taking in Asylum seekers. The way I see it, is the British came here murdered native Aborigines for no reason only to dump their convicts here. should we let other people in this country ? fuck yes. We as people living in these civilized countries have done nothing to stop their countries being exploited for resources and war. The least we can do is offer a little shelter, food and clothes. Today all our governments are so good in discriminating these people. Switch Fox News on for an hour, you'll see. I worry what will happen to our children after we've systematically exercised hate on this many races. This is Racism at its finest.

 

[Cookie monster]

calling on the country's immigrants to learn German and adopt Christian values.


"We feel tied to Christian values. Those who don't accept them don't have a place here," said the chancellor.

Hmmmm seems a familiar sentiment....

 

[Baba Ku]

I'm sorry, but I find your statements to be scattered all over the place attempting to address every subjects that aren't related.

Maybe it's that you are under the assumptions that hundreds of thousands of people are moving into Germany because every single one of them are escaping some sort of persecution. Is that it? If that is the case, it would wrong to stereotype such a large amount of people in that manner.

I don't know how terrorism come into this conversation, because it's not mention in the article. Terrorism comes in all forms, from all religions and all races. Terrorism does not equate anyone from a specific region or religion in this the world. Just ask the people in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

I really detest these the statements in this article made by politicians because all it does is play upon the unfounded, racist and ethnic fears of a voting public, especially when election time is near.

Stereotypical identity happens for a reason. Nothing good or bad implied on the face of stereotyping, simply a realization of like traits, mannerisms, or actions from a specific social group.
Often times a group as a whole will be looked at as displaying a certain trait or action, when in fact not each individual of that group will actually display said trait or action.
Still something caused a stereotypical description of that group, and it wasn't something that was just made up.
And it is not simply "wrong" to recognize stereotyping, unless the context of it makes it wrong.
Just as diversity on it's face is neither good or bad, the same holds true for stereotyping.

Who really cares why a person would choose to immigrate to another nation? Should they not be obliged to acclimate themselves to their host and it's culture? Why should the government of any society change legislation in an attempt to appease the culture and societal beliefs of another society? Unless of course the government sees need for a change to better their own, there should be no good reason for them to legislate anything other than what will best serve the people of that nation.

I love how secular minded folks always want to do the equating atrocities thing....good grief.
OK, you cited OK City as an example of terrorism that can be from another religion of the world. And if YOU would ask the people of OK City YOU would find out that most of them are actually informed on the issue, and they would tell you that Tim McVeigh did not do his deeds in the name of religion, any religion. A failed comparison that is often used by the secular justifiers.
They love to spout off about all the Christian terrorists throughout our histories, but fail to be able to mention just who they are/were and just exactly what they did or how they did it, but they damn well know that they exist so they spout it out all the time.
This is very akin to talking a party line, and really has no basis in facts that anyone can really point to. Oh, sure there are exceptions to every rule, but there is one bad egg in every carton.
Let's count the bad eggs in the cartons, and when we see a overwhelming number of rotten ones, then we can assume with pretty good reliability that there is reason behind it.

What many don't seem to understand, especially those who think wither emotions instead of their brains, is that playing on fears on works on those who are not real bright and need to rely on their emotions to make most all of their decisions. While others actually have a more intellectual grasp of many of these types of issues and can actually use reason and clear thinking to base most of their ideas and thought. These more clear thinkers often times have the ability to also temper their truly critical thoughts with the correct amount of emotional input. The emotional seem to have a hard time finding that balance.